Four Face Weapons Charges In Trolley Square Attack
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MD_Willington
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ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
nearly 100 rounds
. . . motorist also had nearly 5 gallons of gasoline in his tank . . .
. . . smoker also had nearly 20 cigarettes in his jacket . . .
. . . gambler also had nearly $35.00 in his pocket . . .
. . . golfer also had nearly 65 golf balls in his bucket . . .
Is that, like, just about the most feeble attempt at hyperbole ever?
. . . motorist also had nearly 5 gallons of gasoline in his tank . . .
. . . smoker also had nearly 20 cigarettes in his jacket . . .
. . . gambler also had nearly $35.00 in his pocket . . .
. . . golfer also had nearly 65 golf balls in his bucket . . .
Is that, like, just about the most feeble attempt at hyperbole ever?
qlajlu
Member
Something stinks!
Am I the only one having trouble understanding what is going on here? Or rather what went on? All along the authorities, including BATFE, have been saying that the shotgun was "LEGALLY" purchased. Now they have indicted someone in relation to the sale of the shotgun.
Something stinks!
Am I the only one having trouble understanding what is going on here? Or rather what went on? All along the authorities, including BATFE, have been saying that the shotgun was "LEGALLY" purchased. Now they have indicted someone in relation to the sale of the shotgun.
Something stinks!
El Tejon
Member
I'd give some slack there, not unusual for police to make different statements on cases as they develop.
Police swim in a sea of lies and half-truths.
Police swim in a sea of lies and half-truths.
SSN Vet
Member
After the fact, knee jerk witch hunt made as a lame attempt to make people feel safe and cover the dirty little secret that they really can't protect you at all.
Unless there happens to be an off duty officer who carries on the sceen, the REALITY (which no police or government official wants you to know) is that you're on your own.
The police will show up after to count bodies and shotgun shells.
I'm very interested to know if this kid went Jihad (he was a Bosnian Muslim who saw the Serbs whack a lot of his people). My guess is that he was green with resentment and jealousy, because he wasn't experinecing the "American dream" life (as discerned from "reality" t.v.) and bought into the "decadent westerner" rhetoric that Islamofacist spew over the internet.
But since Islamophobia is the greatest form of terrorism (see today's Fox News headline) that will be another truth that the government chooses to surpress.
Unless there happens to be an off duty officer who carries on the sceen, the REALITY (which no police or government official wants you to know) is that you're on your own.
The police will show up after to count bodies and shotgun shells.
I'm very interested to know if this kid went Jihad (he was a Bosnian Muslim who saw the Serbs whack a lot of his people). My guess is that he was green with resentment and jealousy, because he wasn't experinecing the "American dream" life (as discerned from "reality" t.v.) and bought into the "decadent westerner" rhetoric that Islamofacist spew over the internet.
But since Islamophobia is the greatest form of terrorism (see today's Fox News headline) that will be another truth that the government chooses to surpress.
qlajlu
Member
This is a video news report just in about these indictments
In my post above I apparently was suffering from knotted, bunched up skivvies.
The way they are talking now, these indictments are a result of the Federal investigation into the background of the firearms used, but not necessarily connected directly to the guns the shooter had at the time. It now sounds like one, maybe two of the indictments are directly related to the revolver Sulejman Talovic had in his possession. The other indictments are for violations uncovered incidental to the investigation and not connected directly to the weapons Talovic had.
In my post above I apparently was suffering from knotted, bunched up skivvies.
The way they are talking now, these indictments are a result of the Federal investigation into the background of the firearms used, but not necessarily connected directly to the guns the shooter had at the time. It now sounds like one, maybe two of the indictments are directly related to the revolver Sulejman Talovic had in his possession. The other indictments are for violations uncovered incidental to the investigation and not connected directly to the weapons Talovic had.
Well, here locally, I haven't gotten any information from any of the cops that this was a Jihad thing. The autopsy showed no signs of preperation for martyrdom.
If it was something like that, he apprently didn't spread it around.
Uh... I don't know where you live, but this is Utah. It isn't really a dirty secret at all. Nor is the PD engaging in any sort of cover up. My CCW class attendance has gone through the roof as a result of this and VT. We're at about 1 in 40 Utahns carrying now, and by the end of the year, that ratio is going to be much higher.
As for witch hunt, I don't count on the newspaper to get anything firearms related, especially after my fake RPG warhead (made out of two plastic cups glued together and painted) ended up in the newspaper that I had stolen surface to air missiles, in my store. So if charges are being pressed, then I'm assuming it is because somebody did in fact violate a law.
For the FFL, I don't know the details yet.
If it was something like that, he apprently didn't spread it around.
Uh... I don't know where you live, but this is Utah. It isn't really a dirty secret at all. Nor is the PD engaging in any sort of cover up. My CCW class attendance has gone through the roof as a result of this and VT. We're at about 1 in 40 Utahns carrying now, and by the end of the year, that ratio is going to be much higher.
As for witch hunt, I don't count on the newspaper to get anything firearms related, especially after my fake RPG warhead (made out of two plastic cups glued together and painted) ended up in the newspaper that I had stolen surface to air missiles, in my store. So if charges are being pressed, then I'm assuming it is because somebody did in fact violate a law.
For the FFL, I don't know the details yet.
30 cal slob
Member
Correia said:
Oh man, how did you score the SAMs? I want some for 4th of July, but don't see them on your website.
docfubar
Member
Authorities traced the weapons used by a gunman during his shooting rampage at Trolley Square.
Four people have been indicted on federal weapons charges and making false statements.
When Sulejman Talovic went on a shooting rampage at Trolley Square, he was armed with a 38-caliber handgun, and a pistol grip shotgun. Investigators were able to trace where he got those weapons. They say Talovic asked Mackenzie Hunter for help getting a gun. Federal prosecutors say Hunter then contacted Brenden Brown, who had the handgun. The two allegedly arranged to sell the gun to Talovic at a fast food restaurant in Salt Lake City. It happened sometime between June 16 and July 18 of last year, when Talovic was 17 years old.
Talovic used that handgun to shoot one of his first victims. U.S. Attorney for Utah Brett Tolman says, "The indictment alleges that Mr. Hunter knew the person he was transferring the gun to and had reasonable cause to believe that that person was a juvenile. The indictment further alleges that Hunter had reasonable cause to know that the juvenile intended to carry or otherwise posses, discharge or otherwise use this firearm in the commission of a crime of violence; although Mr. Hunter believed that it may be used to commit a bank robbery."
Prosecutors also charged Matthew Hautala, for making false statements.
(AP Photo/Douglas C. Pizac) A grand jury also returned an indictment against Westley Hill, a licensed federal firearms dealer. Hill, who works at Sportsman's Fast Cash Pawn in West Valley, allegedly sold Talovic a pistol grip shotgun on November 13 and failed to keep a record of the transaction.
Because the firearm had a pistol grip, it is not classified as a rifle or a shotgun, and therefore cannot be legally sold to someone under 21.
Tolman says," There is no evidence to support that any of the individuals in the indictment had any information or reason to believe Talovic would use firearms he obtained in a commission of the crime at Trolley Square
He says, "If these individuals had followed federal firearms laws now in existence, Mr. Talovic would not have had these fire arms to use in the tragedy that unfolded at Trolley Square on February 12."
Sulejman Talovic shot and killed five people and injured four others at the Trolley Square Mall.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1232158
This is a pic from the article of the shotgun. I have never seen a mosberg or maverick in this configuration.
Four people have been indicted on federal weapons charges and making false statements.
When Sulejman Talovic went on a shooting rampage at Trolley Square, he was armed with a 38-caliber handgun, and a pistol grip shotgun. Investigators were able to trace where he got those weapons. They say Talovic asked Mackenzie Hunter for help getting a gun. Federal prosecutors say Hunter then contacted Brenden Brown, who had the handgun. The two allegedly arranged to sell the gun to Talovic at a fast food restaurant in Salt Lake City. It happened sometime between June 16 and July 18 of last year, when Talovic was 17 years old.
Talovic used that handgun to shoot one of his first victims. U.S. Attorney for Utah Brett Tolman says, "The indictment alleges that Mr. Hunter knew the person he was transferring the gun to and had reasonable cause to believe that that person was a juvenile. The indictment further alleges that Hunter had reasonable cause to know that the juvenile intended to carry or otherwise posses, discharge or otherwise use this firearm in the commission of a crime of violence; although Mr. Hunter believed that it may be used to commit a bank robbery."
Prosecutors also charged Matthew Hautala, for making false statements.
(AP Photo/Douglas C. Pizac) A grand jury also returned an indictment against Westley Hill, a licensed federal firearms dealer. Hill, who works at Sportsman's Fast Cash Pawn in West Valley, allegedly sold Talovic a pistol grip shotgun on November 13 and failed to keep a record of the transaction.
Because the firearm had a pistol grip, it is not classified as a rifle or a shotgun, and therefore cannot be legally sold to someone under 21.
Tolman says," There is no evidence to support that any of the individuals in the indictment had any information or reason to believe Talovic would use firearms he obtained in a commission of the crime at Trolley Square
He says, "If these individuals had followed federal firearms laws now in existence, Mr. Talovic would not have had these fire arms to use in the tragedy that unfolded at Trolley Square on February 12."
Sulejman Talovic shot and killed five people and injured four others at the Trolley Square Mall.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1232158
This is a pic from the article of the shotgun. I have never seen a mosberg or maverick in this configuration.
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TallPine
Member
looks photoshopped ... 
Um, is there really a law against a private party sale to a minor ...???
(not saying that it is a smart idea in most instances)
Um, is there really a law against a private party sale to a minor ...???
(not saying that it is a smart idea in most instances)
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Long Haul
On the other hand, there is this kind of "amateur hour" quality to the idea that someone truly serious about mayhem would only set out with a hundred rounds.
But then, I suppose that when you're operating on your own, and you're new to the whole massacre thing, and you don't have any real mentoring, it's an easy mistake.
At even a fairly sedate rate of fire, you're out of ammo in, what, 15 minutes? Maybe 20? That's one round every 10 seconds or so?
Okay, now your 20 minutes are up, you're out of ammo, and . . . oops. Sorry, can't stay! Gotta run!
Of course there's always the possibility that there was an egg timer involved and no plan for live exit.
But you're right: a hundred rounds is not usually a self defense allocation. Usually.
Point well taken.
On the other hand, there is this kind of "amateur hour" quality to the idea that someone truly serious about mayhem would only set out with a hundred rounds.
But then, I suppose that when you're operating on your own, and you're new to the whole massacre thing, and you don't have any real mentoring, it's an easy mistake.
At even a fairly sedate rate of fire, you're out of ammo in, what, 15 minutes? Maybe 20? That's one round every 10 seconds or so?
Okay, now your 20 minutes are up, you're out of ammo, and . . . oops. Sorry, can't stay! Gotta run!
Of course there's always the possibility that there was an egg timer involved and no plan for live exit.
But you're right: a hundred rounds is not usually a self defense allocation. Usually.
Autolycus
Member
Either way I think it looks likethe shotgun is perfectly legal to own.
qlajlu
Member
I have been troubled all day by the fact that all reports now say that the shotgun had a pistol grip. Here is a Maverick Arms Model 88 12-gauge NIB (you must scroll all the way down for pictures) and apparently it has attachments that come with it so a conversion is simple and can be done by anyone.
It wasn't the shotgun that was illegal, it was the pistol-grip attachment from what I understand.
It wasn't the shotgun that was illegal, it was the pistol-grip attachment from what I understand.
thexrayboy
Member
This is Bull**** of the deepest and smelliest variety. If this person made these statements under oath he should be charged with perjury. If not under oath he should be cut loose and apologized to for being arrested without cause. Lying may be a low down nasty act but when we start charging people for simple lying we open a can of worms the size of Mount Whitney.
This is just a trump charge used to pressure people. No real crime was commited so one was fabricated. As long as it is legal for LEO to lie in the course of duty no person should EVER be charged with lying. Perjury is a separate issue. If you want to induce someone to not lie to you do the questioning under oath. If not accept the possibility of being lied to.
If I was ever on a jury for such a charge I would never ever find for guilt unless the DA could prove ironclad that the person in question had lied under oath. If not its a quick ballot and done for the day.
K-Romulus
Member
More info on the sales:
The handgun came from a black market sale involving an out-of-state supplier.
The shotgun sale seems to be from an FFL that didn't do the 4473 or something. Also, it seems that BATFE is treating the pistol-grip shotgun has a handgun sale.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051701225.html
The handgun came from a black market sale involving an out-of-state supplier.
The shotgun sale seems to be from an FFL that didn't do the 4473 or something. Also, it seems that BATFE is treating the pistol-grip shotgun has a handgun sale.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051701225.html
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