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vacuum sealing guns?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by kalash, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. oldfart

    oldfart Member

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    Everybody seems to know about silica gel and cosmoline - both of which are pretty good, but so far I see no mention of oxygen absorbing packets.

    They're a one-time use only product but they work far better than anything else because they eliminate the cause of oxidation - the oxygen! The only thing you have to worry about is letting them come in contact with the steel of the gun. If that happens they'll cause pitting at the site of contact. Since oxygen comprises about 16% of our atmosphere (at sea level) they also cause a slight vacuum in the sealed container. They're not expensive, though you probably won't find them at either your favorite gun store or Wal Mart, instead having to order them from a supplier.

    Google is your friend.
     
  2. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Oxygen absorbers tend to have the same problem as desiccants, namely that they break down and release what they've captured. At least, they did years back. Is this still the case?
     
  3. Buzztail

    Buzztail Member

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    HA HA HA HA!! Great way to start my day!!
     
  4. Tom488

    Tom488 Member

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    You mean sorta like 5:10 into this video? :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOAWdv26NNg
     
  5. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    "Oxygen absorbers tend to have the same problem as desiccants, namely that they break down and release what they've captured. At least, they did years back. Is this still the case?"

    Most of them are just finely divided iron that rusts and binds up the oxygen.
    It is not going to be released again under any normal circumstances.
     
  6. Flame Red

    Flame Red Member

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    Here is a wealth of information. Seems like COSMOLINE works. WD-40 is a good one too, which goes against the consensus of using it as a lubricant.

    Knowing The Limits Of Rust Preventives
     
  7. Slugless

    Slugless Member

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    avg shooter,

    You had the CO2 idea, too? I used it for a while as an inert gas. I didn't think it'd be worth posting about but since you mentioned it...

    I don't recommend CO2 as an inert gas for moisture sensitive materials. Nitrogen or argon are superior.

    I have somewhere in the house a 5lb CO2 cylinder from back during my beer brewing days. Since I had it, I used it as an inert gas and it seemed to work pretty well although I never used it on metals.

    CO2 is heavier than air and because it is a product of oxidation it is inert as a gas. I'll get back to that. It is also heavier than air (about 3x as heavy), which is really nice if you want to protect something in a bucket, like grain. Being heavier than air means it will want to ooze out of a package laying on a horizontal surface. If it oozes out, air may creep in. Nitrogen, being practically the same density as air, doesn't tend to ooze out like CO2.

    The problem with dry ice is that it's cold, -70 deg F. This can cause moisture from the air to condense on surfaces before the air can fully escape. (Ask me how I know :uhoh:). A little surface moisture is not a problem for fruit. The water should eventually evaporate into the CO2 but then you don't have a dry gas anymore.

    The big problem with CO2 + moisture is that CO2 is corrosive when dissolved in water. No external source of oxygen is needed!

    -Douglas
     
  8. Slugless

    Slugless Member

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    The Brownell's test is good info.

    I've been cruising around the Cortec site & found a couple items of interest to gun owners.

    1. Is a comparison of Break-Free to Cortec's own CLP. Absolutely amazing. I guess they don't make it anymore. :confused: Anyone know who passed the military spec testing? (Also, the 3rd product is a semi-synthetic motor oil that out-competes the likes of Mobil 1 for airplane engines. Doesn't do so well.)

    http://www.cortecvci.com/Publications/Reports/07-279-1825.pdf

    2. Here's one on Taurus gun barrels.

    http://www.cortecvci.com/Publications/Reports/07-166-1825.pdf

    Neat stuff. Might be worth getting for super long term storage or for a boat gun.

    If you have to cache your weapons to keep them out of the bulldozer's path but won't have time to remove the cosmoline before you use them....

    EDIT - I found the consumer outlet - Bullfrog: http://www.bull-frog.com/
     
  9. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    Yeah, I was mainly just throwing out the idea, I have never played with it myself. Actually, after I posted I thought about the moisture thing, too. You make good points and actually answered some questions I hadn't thought of until this morning.

    Yes, I suppose vacuum-sealing carbonic acid in with your collectibles would be a bad idea.:p
     
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    What fun is owning a hermetically sealed gun kept locked away in a dark old safe?

    If I can't even look at them & fondle them every once and awhile, and wipe them down with a RIG-RAG when I get done, I might as well just sell them all!

    1224.jpg
    rcmodel
     
  11. Geno

    Geno Member

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    I'm with rcmodel:

    Take it from the vault every month, handle it, break it down, tinker, oil it, reassemble it.

    Vacuum-sealing an otherwise beautiful Colt 1911 simply turns it aesthetically into a Glock. No slam intended as I do own and carry Glocks also.

    Doc2005
     
  12. AirplaneDoc

    AirplaneDoc Member

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    I got some odd ball stuff that I just don't shoot often. Its going in a vacumn bag (1910 mauser 25 auto, Mauser c96, etc.) The stuff I shoot or rtinker with on a regular basis, I just keep in the safe with dessicant.
     
  13. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    Warner Bros. My favorites!:D

    I just got a vacuum sealer. This is interesting!
     
  14. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    This is going to come off a little strident and that has nothing to do with the posters involved. It has to do with an aspect of modern culture (or at least TV) that I dislike.

    I find the HGTV-inspired "sell what you haven't used in 6 months" tone of modern life depressing at times. The whole "throw away your life (brought to you by our sponsors who are standing by to sell you a new life)" theme is strange and wasteful. I hear it all the time... if you have a kitchen appliance you haven't used in 6 months sell it. If you have a gun you haven't used in 6 months, sell it. If you have a coat you haven't worn in 6 months, sell it.

    You know what? I have a nice winter coat that I wear 2-3 times a year. I've owned it for years and if I followed the "sell it if you haven't used it recently" meme I would've spent thousands of dollars (figuring the resale value of nearly new items like clothes) buying that same coat over and over again. I have tools that get used once every few years if I'm lucky (and more often if I'm not)... if I sold them every time I hadn't used them for a few months I'd be down thousands of dollars and a lot of headache having to buy the same stuff over and over. I know I'll use it again.

    I don't have many guns, and none of my guns are really high dollar collector's items, but I'd rather continue to have the guns I have (plus add a few new guns as time goes along) than sell and re-acquire essentially the same gun over and over again, always at a loss. At the same time I want my guns to retain as much of their condition and value as possible.

    At any given time I have a use for maybe 5 guns. .22 pistol, centerfire pistol, .22 rifle, centerfire rifle, shotgun. That collection could cover all the shooting I may want or need to do. In reality I like to keep an extra or two "fit for use" just because. Call it 7-10 guns. That's plenty to take out and disassemble, reassemble, fiddle with, and fidget over every so often.

    Should I sell all the others? No. I like having the others. In a perfect world I'd have a gun room or good enough security that I could have everything visible and accessible. Maybe someday I will. I hope so. In the mean time I keep my stuff and I protect it as best I can.

    The aesthetics of a stored firearm really don't bother me. A stored S&W usually looks like a blue cardboard/plastic box. A vacuum sealed pistol looks like a gray plastic gun. Either is fine so long as what comes out of that packaging looks and works as well as what went in.

    That's my rant for the old year. :D
     
  15. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    The inert gas will leak out of anything except a metal container with solder seal.
    Lube it up and check on it every few months.
    I have guns in storage with break free that have been fine for years.
     
  16. 101AirborneE8

    101AirborneE8 Member

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    I've got sheets of Zerust Excor. It's a heavy plastic sheeting impregnated with corrosion inhibiting material.

    I can provide gun bags for $3.00 each, or you can buy the material in bulk & make your own using a wood-burning pen, heat sealer, or just wrapping your gun with it & putting it in a Seal-a-meal tube.

    Bulk material:
    6 feet X 14 feet
    1 piece $8.00 plus $4.00 shipping.
    2 pieces $13.00 plus $5.00 shipping.
    3 pieces $19.00 plus $6.00 shipping.
    4 pieces $23.00 plus $7.00 shipping.
     
  17. novaDAK

    novaDAK Member

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    Not even Glocks are rust proof...
    saltedglock.jpg
    donerusted.jpg
     
  18. AirplaneDoc

    AirplaneDoc Member

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    Looks like that one spent some time on a lake bottom
     
  19. Dgreno

    Dgreno Member

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    Look up glock 21 torture test, thats where that one is from, rust seems to be a rarity on Glocks, usually resulting from abuse from what I have seen but I'm no expert...
    Now back to the OP, I don't understand the concept of "long term storage". if one of my guns goes more than a year without use, it gets sold, so no vacuum sealing for me. Then again, I don't have anything as nice as the 1911A1's shown previously...
    -Dave
     
  20. novaDAK

    novaDAK Member

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    Yep...the white spots on the slide were caused by it being shot with a .22LR a few times, and the rust was after it was put into a sock soaked with saltwater.
    Glocks don't rust easy, this particular one was put through abuse beyond belief.
     
  21. Mark Whiteman

    Mark Whiteman Member

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    You can improve things with desiccants by putting in more than is required to remove all the moisture, thus making sure none is saturated. As long as the drying agent is kept from direct contact with the metal, it usually isn't a problem.

    The vacuum won't suck the oil out as long as you don't really soak it. A light rub with an oily patch is sufficient. I've also used acid-free paper soaked in oil to wrap the oiled metallic items with good results, together with desiccant.

    An ammo can with a good seal is at least as protective as a vacuum sealed bag.

    I have rarely sold a firearm once obtained. Partly from taking my time when choosing one, partly from being stricken with "Youneverknowwhenyoumayneedoneitis" at an early age. I've traded for a different one, but not just because one hadn't seen use in a while.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2008
  22. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    Interesting thread. Thanks.

    Btw, anyone use the cardboard-sticks the military used to put in rifle barrels to prevent rust? I know they are now commercially available. I can't recall the brand name at the moment.
     
  23. Slugless

    Slugless Member

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    Several manufacturers sell emitters. The brand name I can think of that sells to the public is bullfrog. www.bull-frog.com
     
  24. CWL

    CWL Member

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    How resistant is the food-quality plastic to long-term exposure to the chemicals in oil/grease/lubricants/preservatives?
     
  25. 101AirborneE8

    101AirborneE8 Member

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    From what I've seen, there's not much problem with conventional protectants like CLP working against the plastic.

    The main problem tends to be that if there is any moisture in the plastic bag, it has nowhere to go, except to the metal on the gun. Silica gel does a good job of absorbing moisture, but I've been cautioned to not have it touching the metal in the bag, because you now have a moisture-laden substance against your gun.

    The theory behind corrosion inhibiting material is that it contains some ferrous substance, so that the moisture should go after it, rather than your gun, and it emits a petroleum vapor that condenses on the gun and helps to shield it from oxidation.
     
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