Verbal commands in an extreme situation?

[rainbowbob]

I have often wondered about the advisability of using verbal commands (e.g., Stop, or I'll shoot!) in an extreme situation where drawing a firearm is warranted.

I want to assure you I am not an LEO wannabe or mall ninja, but I would like to ask what you folks (and especially any LEOs) think about the following verbal tactic:

When drawing a firearm yell "Police! get down on the ground, now!!" (or words to that effect).

My theory is as follows:

• BGs may be more intimidated and willing to comply.
• Innocents are more likely to hit the ground for safety.
• If asked why I identified myself as the police, I could reply (without too much of a stretch) "I was calling FOR the police - in case any happened to be around."

Comments please?

 

[El Tejon]

While verbal commands are vital (avoidance to witness instruction), why borrow trouble and attempt to label yourself a police officer if you are not?

"Stop!" or "Go away!" or "Drop the weapon!" does what you hope to accomplish and no potential of being labeled a "wannabe" or "mall ninja."

 

[jlbraun]

I don't recommend yelling "Please! Drop the weapon!" either.

 

[rainbowbob]

Good points, El Tejon. what did you mean by "avoidance to witness instruction"?

While verbal commands are vital (avoidance to witness instruction)...

 

[Six O'clock Tactical]

Yeah, the first thing I thought was "he definately shouldent say 'police!'"

With lawyers in the family I can guarantee you that regardless of what you "said", theyll fight you for it and itll cost you something fierce.

 

[buzz_knox]

Good points, El Tejon. what did you mean by "avoidance to witness instruction"?

I'm not ET nor did I play him on TV, but I'd guess he means that the reason for a verbal command can range from avoiding having to shoot (the subject retreats or surrenders) to insuring the witnesses know you were the good guy ("Officer, that poor man told the dead guy more than once to drop the gun and get back but that bad man just going after the poor feller!")

 

[takhtakaal]

I think if the situation were dire enough I'd say just about anything to avoid having to drill someone for the home team. Worrying about being labeled a wannabe would be secondary.

 

[B.D. Turner]

Loud verbal warnings can convey a sign of strength and can give you the tactical edge in some cases. A criminal is looking for a victim (someone weaker than himself) when you show strength and total resistance to him you are taking the advantage.
The exception to this would be a live shooter situation where people are be actively shot in this situation a cool head and a steady hand would be a better solution.

 

[Zak Smith]

IMO, verbal communication should only serve to upset the BG's OODA loop, or to inform witnesses what's going on. A verbal challenge serves to inform the BG you are about to fight; however, a BG's first indication that you are fighting ought to be that he is severely incapacitated.

-z

 

[XDKingslayer]

Just yell "PLUG YOUR EARS!"...

 

[buzz_knox]

How about "Fill your hands, you son of a _________!"

If it's good enough for the Duke (pause for brief genuflection), it's good enough for me.

 

[bsf]

Take Massad Ayoob's Judicious Use of Lethal Force. All your questions will be addressed.

 

[TallPine]

Verbal commands in an extreme situation?

I'm guessing that what I might say isn't fit to post on THR

 

[buzz_knox]

I'm guessing that what I might say isn't fit to post on THR

I think that high-pitched screams of terror are allowed. Or at least they should be, as that's what most of us will probably do.

 

[El Tejon]

buzz, if past experience is any indication, I will likely soil myself as well as shriek like a little girl.

rainbow,

1. Avoidance=>not getting in a fight. E.g., you yell "stop, go away" and attacker does. You win without fighting, the greatest of all victories. You've just avoided 10s of thousands of dollars of attorney fees, a criminal investigation and possible prosecution and a possible protracted, expensive civil lawsuit.

How many guns, how much ammo, how much in your IRA, how much of your mortgage could you pay off with all the money you will spend on yourself fighting Problem #2? How much fear and emotion distress will you save yourself and family by giving everyone one last clear chance to avoid a fight?

2. Witness instruction=>"stop", "drop the weapon", "go away", "I'm in fear of death or serious bodily injury from you". You've just told the witnesses, and there will be witnesses, who the agressor is and who is being attacked. Police will write that down and prosecution will review it. There are two boxes on the police form--assailant/perpetrator/attacker and victim. Which box do you want to have checked for you?

 

[buzz_knox]

buzz, if past experience is any indication, I will likely soil myself as well as shriek like a little girl.

If we really should train like we expect to fight, then I need to bring more changes of underwear and eat more fiber when attending Pat's classes.

Who knows, maybe shooting over my shoulder while running away from the target (in a tactically approved lateral direction) will improve my scores.

 

[grumpycoconut]

I recommend one thing above all. LITTLE WORDS REAL LOUD! and not too many of them.

STOP! - GET DOWN! - GO AWAY! - DONT MOVE! - I'LL SHOOT!

2 or 3 words per command max! No witty repartee or neato catch phrases.

People under stress don't hear too well or understand what they hear. This includes witnesses, friendlies and targets (I mean bad guys) There are few things that screw up a confusing situation more than too many words that don't mean anything. Another reason to not talk too much is that folks CAN'T TALK AND SHOOT AT THE SAME TIME worth beans.

One last thing. If you really want help don't yell POLICE yell FIRE. People close their doors, windows and ears when they hear police. They stick their heads out their windows and get all google eyed when they think they might see somthing on fire.

 

[bsf]

One last thing. If you really want help don't yell POLICE yell FIRE. People close their doors, windows and ears when they hear police. They stick their heads out their windows and get all google eyed when they think they might see somthing on fire.

I do not know jack, but I do not know about yelling “Fire” when guns are involved ----- unless someone is being executed.

What do people think about that?

 

[grumpycoconut]

Ya yell FIRE after ya perforate the bad guy. That way your lawyer gets to claim that you acted to save the life of the miserable bum who made ya shoot him. It helps balance out the witness who swears that you drawled "I'll be your huckleberry" right before you swore that you would end the badguy.

 

[bsf]

Ya yell FIRE after ya perforate the bad guy. That way your lawyer gets to claim that you acted to save the life of the miserable bum who made ya shoot him. It helps balance out the witness who swears that you drawled "I'll be your huckleberry" right before you swore that you would end the badguy.

Yes, I now understand.

 

[Floppy_D]

When I attended the Armed Sentry Course here in VA, we were given specific phrases to use. And, oddly enough, when we were required to demonstrate what we had learned, nobody said the same thing. It was even worse when the Red Man showed up. The only consistency was judicious use of "the f-word" and "ground".

 

[rainbowbob]

STOP! - GET DOWN! - GO AWAY! - DONT MOVE! - I'LL SHOOT! 2 or 3 words per command max! No witty repartee or neato catch phrases.

That sounds about right.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I have colleagues who advocate this. I'm not convinced its worth much.

rainbowbob said: BGs may be more intimidated and willing to comply.

Bad people who are prepared to do bad things to you, by the very nature of that lifestyle, are not the sort who are intimidated by words. A criminal actor - willing to bring violence to you - is comfortable with violence. Most of those sort have already well-established relationships with the police. And they aren't scared of them. They'll know you are or aren't, and you are unlikely to fool them with words.

Shouting and yelling can communicate a level of discomfort with a situation if it comes across tainted with anxiety. Once he's picked you, what discourages a violent criminal actor from executing his attack is his victim remaining calm, comfortable, and in control.

"Hey . . . He's not scared . . . What does he know that I don't know? This might not work out well for me if I press on."​

rainbowbob said: Innocents are more likely to hit the ground for safety.

Innocents don't pay attention to their surroundings. As they watch the situation unfold, in astonishment and disbelief, they won't hit the ground until things go bang.

rainbowbob said: If asked why I identified myself as the police, I could reply (without too much of a stretch) "I was calling FOR the police - in case any happened to be around."

I don't think it really matters what you say. No one's going to remember.


It's a bluff. Don't bluff. I like Tuco's Rule - If you have to shoot, shoot! Don't talk.

Police! get down on the ground, now!!"

Lastly . . . and if he responds, "OK buddy. Arrest me. I'd like to see ya try." Now what?

 

[TallPine]

"Hey . . . He's not scared . . . What does he know that I don't know? This might not work out well for me if I press on."

I must admit, you are better than me (sword fighting).

Then why are you smiling?

Because I know something you don't.

What is that?

I'm not left-handed (switches sword to right hand).

 

[mpmarty]

I go along with the quiet smile. I was walking out of the Rose Garden late one evening into the parking lot (this is in Portland Oregon) and three young adults cut across from the far dark corner of this huge lot on an intersecting path. When they were arrayed in front of me at about twenty yards, coming my way I shifted my briefcase from my right hand to my left hand, unbuttoned my suit coat and stuck my right hand into my left armpit and smiled at them. They made a co-ordinated ninety degree turn and went out of the lot without ever looking back.