Very Hard to Believe...

[StrikeEagle]

Hello, friends!

I've been reading Marshall and Sanow for years... and Jeff Cooper before that. Cooper felt that the .45 ACP FMJ gave 95% one shot stops. Marshall and Sanow say that the standard 230 ball round gives 63%.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

There's something about that number that just doesn't sit right with me. We're being asked to believe that the legendary reputation of .45 Auto... which was built on the fmj round... is based on 63% stopping power? I mean... Alvin York took down 7 enemy soldiers with 7 shots from his 1911. That doesn't sound like 63% performance to me...

I know that Marshall and Sanow claim to collect case studies of actual shootings and that their results are based on REALITY... not theory. Ok...

But dang... 63%? I just find this hard to believe it's that low.

What do y'all think?

StrikeEagle

 

[Correia]

First off, I just want to say as a moderator, that I hope this thread quickly sinks to the bottom and dies.

StrikeEagle, please do a search on this topic. It has been done, no let me rephrase that, the dead horse has been beat into paste. There are several huge multi-page threads about Marshall & Sanow and everything related to them. It is possibly one of the most controversial subjects you can have on a gun board.

 

[mete]

Any attempt at putting numbers to bullet performance is at very best an approximation .Buying ammo X because it has a 92% over ammo Y because it has a 90% is a fools game. Just buy a premium ammo of one of the common brands and you can't do better - but PRACTICE !!!

 

[Bufford t. Justice]

Never underestimate the human drive to survive. It's in our blood. Fire till the threat is eliminated. Screw statistics. End of story.

 

[mattk]

Statistics are the biggest liars I know. (except my ex that is). There is alwasy an exception to the rule.

 

[BigSlick]

Marvin Thackler and other scientific research calls Marshall Sanow database crap

Read until your eyes bleed

Shot placement is everything.

Mods, please close this thread...

BigSlick

 

[shermacman]

Yeah, and Glocks are ugly!

 

[Sean Smith]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthre...rpage=25&highlight=One Shot Stop&pagenumber=2

My comment:

Think about it: the study can't reliably tell the difference between a .40 S&W load, a .308 rifle load, and a 12ga slug load. If it can't resolve those differences, it is logically impossible for it to reliably resolve piss-ant differences between pistol calibers. At best, it's like having a ruler incremented only in yards, but claiming you can measure inches with it.

On the other hand, Jeff Cooper's 95% figure was just pulled out of his butt... I doubt any handgun cartridge is 95% effective against anything that isn't a rodent.

 

[griz]

With over 54% certianty I feel that these types of statistics may be 77% accurate, but are only useful about 49% of the time.

 

[P95Carry]

As Correia pointed out, this subject has been beaten to death and searching will bring up plenty of info. I doubt this thread will further benefit the subject.