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Violent Neighbor - No Police Protection - What do I do?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by will500, Aug 13, 2008.

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  1. BAT1

    BAT1 Member

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    The management better do something about this. Send a certified letter to the management with witnesses signing also. Keep a copy. If something happens, they can be held liable big time. But you don't want anything bad to happen, so call the management EVERY time it happens. Let him get violent with them or the cops. They have to see it in person. Then they will probably smell that smell and it will take it's own course. DO NOT go down and knock his door. He will blame you because you knocked before. You don't want retaliation when he gets busted or kicked out. Record the music coming through the walls. Record any conversations he may start with you. I also recommend self defense classes, and do not say you bought the gun for protection from him. I used to manage property for six years and had two nuts like him. We got one busted, and the other one tried to beat me up one night. He got arrested after I cleaned his clock with some self defense moves. Keep witnesses around you until he or you are gone. If you smell that smell, call the fire dept and tell them you smell smoke. They will add to the witness list and the cops will respond if they call. Sounds like you have some lousy cops, you might want to chat with their commander. You might consider a small 9mm or .38 . Go to the local range that rents them so you can get a feel for it. If you pull heat make darn sure it is life threatening.
     
  2. will500

    will500 Member

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    Okay, I won't pound on the floor anymore. If the stereo blasts I'll call the police and management.

    I usually wouldn't care about pot smoke, I don't care what people do, normally. But in this rare case if I smell it I'll... be a "lamer"... and call the cops just to get him out.

    Maybe this post was 50% for answers and 50% for "getting it off my chest".

    as suggested I might look at this:
    http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi.../PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=19761

    Cheap and scary. I'll probably just stare at it and not get it... he did try to get in that one time though... hard choice. I'd rather not have a gun around.
     
  3. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    Short answer: MOVE

    Good advice.

    I have been in a similar situation once and seen several others transpire. I grew up in the bad parts of the city and have almost always lived in apartments. With me it ended when they up and moved one day. I have seen the whole situation just dissolve with a friend who was involved in something similar; they just got over it one day. Another time the guys place was broken into while he slept and he was stabbed 25 times. He survived by the way. From the way I heard it told a firearm would not have done him an ounce of good.

    The buyout on my lease is $450. Thats the price of a decent gun. I would rather pay the $450 and move than believe my wife is in danger. I would rather pay the $450 than have to kill someone. Talk to the apt manager and the property owner. See if you can get a different apt in a different building of the same complex without having to pay a new deposit or buy out your lease. Maybe a change in proximity will solve your problem.

    How the gun looks is irrelevant. Do not threaten people with firearms.
    Making a threat on the life of another person is illegal, especially so if you use a gun. Not only is it illegal but it will escalate the level of violence. Also: its stupid. Why would you threaten someone whom you believe is a dangerous drug addict? Why would you want this person to know you have a gun?

    Situations where you do not need to be pointing a gun at someone.
    1. Your and/or your wife's lives are not in immediate danger
    2. You are not prepared to use deadly force.
    3. You are trying to scare someone.

    Situations where you do.
    1. Their current behavior could be described as "trying to kill you".
    2. You believe that in the immediate future they are going to try to kill you.

    *******************

    I guess what I am trying to say here is that if you are worried that your neighbor won't take your gun seriously then you need to reevaluate your ideas on using a gun for self defense.

    The the real questions are:

    "How to diffuse a potentially violent situation?"
    "What dose it mean to take the life of another?"
    "Am I capable of taking the life of another?"
    "What are mistakes that gun owners make in SD/HD situations?"
    "What constitutes a SD/HD situation, both to myself and legally?"
    "When is use of a deadly weapon justified both legally and to myself"
    "Where can I seek training in the use of firearms for self defense?"
    "What are the potential consequences of homicide in my state?"
    "What dose my lawyer say about all this?"
    "What dose my wife say?"
     
  4. LSU Fan

    LSU Fan Member

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    This just reminded me, thought I'd share...

    My CCW instructor noted that (as a retired LEO), "Average response time for XXPD is 10-15 minutes... but when they hear that a gun is involved... response time is now more like 3 minutes."

    IMHO, One should alert the authorities whenever possible, and prepare them for the scene they are about to respond to... i.e. alerting them that you or others are armed. It's not the best idea to have a gun in hand when the police arrive, but if it happens, remaining calm and compliant could save your life.

    Ok enough rambling... just sharing my $.02
     
  5. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Since your neighbor has already proven himself to of the un-neighborly type and unreceptive to a politie request, this would be the best course of action.

    Same here. What folks do in the privacy of their homes concerns me not one wit, UNTIL it starts intruding into my home. Calling for action on a nuisance such as Cannabis sp. smoke does not strike me as being a "lamer". A considerate dope-smoking neighbor would at least light some incense and use a HEPA filter in the house.

    As far as as the shot-gun goes, I've got this one ( http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi.../PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=20892 ) in 12 guage with the ghost-ring sights. Helps with accurate aiming during practice sessions.

    If you pick up a firearm, you DO intend to practice with it I trust.
     
  6. meef

    meef Member

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    Umm.... I get the impression that a lid might be a more appropriate peace offering in this situation.

    :cool:
     
  7. crushbup

    crushbup Member

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    Here's what you should and shouldn't do:
    DO buy a gun, a shotgun if you can. If it must be a pistol, go with a GLOCK, they're cheap used and come in every size and flavor you can imagine. I think the lines of the gun make it intimidating, but don't bank on it.
    DO call the owner.
    DO call the police, maybe they'll catch him in the act of beating down your door.

    DO NOT brandish the gun. This could escalate the situation, and either way, I wouldn't open that door if he's out there.
    DO NOT get trigger happy and shoot him
    DO NOT physically confront him or do anything to agitate him.

    The gun is in case he manages to get inside and is looking for blood.
     
  8. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Go ahead and get a gun, but it should NEVER leave your apartment*. Its there just in case this guy tries to come in uninvited and THAT IS IT. Period. I know its been stated over and over again, but you NEVER use a gun as a prop to frighten/threaten someone. I've known this type and pointing a gun at him is more likely to get him to call your bluff and when he does he's taking your gun away from you and killing you with it (lets hope he stops there). Also, the instant you threaten him with a gun over noise the cops are going to become HIS friend and take YOU away (for one thing, law abiding citizens are easier to get into the patrol car than some roided up hot head. Cops don't like to get hurt either).

    As has been stated over and over again, constantly call the police and landlord about this guy. At this point it doesn't matter if you stopped calling, every time anyone calls he'll assume its you. But if something happens you're going to need that paper trail. Further more, if you wish to sue your landlord this same paper trail is going to help there.

    Remind your landlord that he could be held legally responsible if this creep does anything to you. He's full if it if he thinks he can't legally kick this SOB out for threatening his other tenants. Remember there is only one single thing your landlord cares about is his own wallet. Right now he's afraid that Roid-boy will either harm him, destroy property or if he thinks the guy is brighter than you're average punk he's afraid he'll sue him for evicting him. Also keep in mind that eviction isn't a free process, you need to make him realize that it will be cheaper to evict Roid-boy than it will to deal with YOUR lawyer.

    If this guy has made direct threats to you, document them and go get a restraining order. The restraining order will be 110% worthless when it comes to making this guy stop his behavior, but when you take it to your landlord you have yet another legal tool to push him to get rid of this guy.


    Just remember a gun is your LAST resort, as annoying as this guy is if you're forced to shoot him and the shoot is a "good shoot" its still going to be a difficult and expensive situation for you. You WILL be arrested, you WILL have to come up with bail, you WILL have to pay an attorney and even if you're "no-billed" by a grand jury and walk you're still going to be out of pocket several grand.


    Now, I want you to go into your bathroom, look into the mirror and repeat 20 times; "I am NOT a cop!" (I'll be in my bathroom repeating "I am NOT a lawyer!" :D)


    *Well it can leave, unloaded and cased, when you take it to the range for practice.
     
  9. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    Will500:
    Either I'm missing something or this story doesn't quite add up. If you "...went down there..." - how were you able to close and lock the door with him on the other side of it trying to get in? Weren't you at HIS door?
     
  10. Bill2e

    Bill2e Member

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    One word: MOVE
     
  11. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    Unless he locked himself inside the other guys apt. which would explain the other guy getting so upset; especially if he has been living there since.

    In all seriousness he either probably went back up to his own place and did not outline that one detail in his story or its all just a fabrication.
     
  12. meef

    meef Member

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    Now that's funny....:D
     
  13. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Forget the handgun unless you intend to get a conceal carry license or have some particular interest in shooting handguns for sport. You run a huge risk with a handgun that you will miss and/or that any hits will not stop a large man.

    GET A CARBINE OR SHOTGUN. Get to a range to learn the basics of safety and how to work it. Load it with appropriate shot or HP/SP ammo. Do not brandish it to scare him off or expect the noise of racking it to frighten him. Learn your state's gun laws, gun transport laws and laws for use of deadly force in self defense. Typically under state law it is to be used only if you are in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm. But learn your own state's code.

    Further, I would encourage you to contact the building owner and look to your state's landlord tenant act. Let the owner know the problems with the pot smoke, loud music. If nothing is done, I'd advise moving out post haste. Do not contact or try to talk to the neighbor.

    You don't want to shoot anyone unless you have to. The documented history shows you have called the police who have done nothing. I would suggest keeping clear of him and not confronting him, but if he's kicked your door in and has come to kill you then by all means shot him. Either that or die, it's up to you.
     
  14. HIcarry

    HIcarry Member

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    As mentioned, a landlord may be legally liable for assaults on their property, but that generally requires that the landlord knows, or should have known, the situation was such that the probability of an assault, or other crime, was "reasonable." Therefore, document each and every time the other tenent threatens you, each and every time you notify the landlord about these threats, and each and every time you have to call the police (of fire department). Such documentation can go a long ways in proving that the landlord knew the conditions and the high risk of assault existed.
    I would also review your lease/rental agreement, with the assumption that all the leases/rental agreements are the same for the building, for any language to the effect that the tenent shall use the property "in quite enjoyment." The phrase, or something substantially similar, is common in many leases/rental agreements and may provide a means to either force the landlord to evict the offending tenent, or to get out of your lease by claiming that the landlord broke the terms of the lease agreement by not enforcing the "quite enjoyment" clause of the other tenent.
    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
  15. will500

    will500 Member

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    Our doors intersect at an "L", right next to each other. The stairs are inside our apartment. As in you open our door and there are stairs to go up. I opened my door, his door was open... not sure why?... and before I was even able to open my mouth he was yammering about how "It's not even on" (hah) and ect, then he grew in rage, quickly, he was hulking out.

    He was then talking about how he'd kick my ass if we ever called the cops again, was making fun of the fact that our car died 2 weeks earlier (we had let him use our parking space once he figured out that our car had died (tranny blew)), name calling and ect ect. Screaming all the time in roid rage mode.

    I just closed and locked the door because it was obvious the guy was going nuts and getting nuttier. He then started beating against the door hard and turning at the handle hard.

    I didn't know what to do so I paused a few sec while he continued to try to get in then told him I had a gun and that we are calling the cops. You know the rest. Okay, claiming the gun was probably not the best, but when a 6'7" mega muscle dude is flipping out and trying to get into your house.... ya.

    Nice! I will try the "legal scare tactics". I'm usually not one for lawyer stuff... I keep to myself and don't want trouble.

    If this is the game we must play let it be.

    We will be sending in our monthly rent soon, I will send it certified (so they sign) and have a letter in there with what has happened, signed with a video of me signing and putting it the envelope. That's about as legal as it gets I think, even though that is silly to me...
     
  16. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    NOTE: I have deleted the contents of this post. The OP posted a response before I posted more questions which have been rendered moot by his response.
     
  17. maestro pistolero

    maestro pistolero Member

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    Pepper Spray or Mace is your friend. Very effective stuff. Next time you call the cops, have your wife leave for a bit for safety.

    Record the verbal threats emanating from your door, then use the recording to get a restraining order. If you ever have to shoot the knucklehead, you'll be on much better legal ground.

    Also, if HE has any guns, he'll be required to surrender them while under the restraining order.
     
  18. romeo212000

    romeo212000 Member

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    I think you have the wrong idea about owning a gun. The gun is to be used as a last resort and only when you feel you and your family's life is in danger. The first thing you need to do is quit this pissing contest with this guy. Stop interacting with him, it is clearly not working. He is a bully and does not listen to reason. Someone else hit the nail on the head with where you need to go from here. Everytime this guy starts acting out bug the hell out of the police and land lords. When he starts yelling when the police leave call them again, and again if necessary. Eventually either the police or more likely the land lord will do something about it. Second, I do not know the law in Pennsylavania but in many states the law says that if someone enters your home, especially in the manner which you describe you have a right to defend it with deadly force. As I said check your laws. However, be sure you have not escalated the situation by getting into a pissing contest with this guy. Also document every single incident in a journal or something. That way you have something in black and white regarding this if something ever came to pass. Be careful.
     
  19. GatorDude

    GatorDude Member

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    Movers are $50 per hour.
    Lawyers are $350-$500+ per hour.
    Some people are put on this Earth to test our patience as gun owners.

    I have been in your situation many times and it stinks. Keep a log of every call to the police and to the rental office. Their failure to deal with this guy could be your way out of a lease.

    Remember, if you confront the guy and exchange words and the situation escalates to gunplay, you could find yourself in a much worse living situation. Be careful, bide your time, and move.
     
  20. jahwarrior

    jahwarrior Member

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    since you live in PA, here's my advice,as a fellow Keystoner:

    1. go to your county sheriff's office (or chief of police if you're in Philly), and apply for your LTCF. it takes minutes, and won't cost more than $50.

    2. go to your local gun shop, and get what you can afford. Hi Points are low cost, but effective. they're big, black, and ugly, but they work. you don't need to have your LTCF to buy a gun, only to carry it concealed. remember, any gun is better than no gun.

    3. for home defense, a shotgun is always better than a handgun; many good brands, like mossberg, remington, and H&R, can be bought for less than the price of a handgun. avoid using slugs in your home. stick with buckshot.

    4. PA does have Castle Doctrine. if you're in your home, or place of work, you're under no obligation to run and hide. we don't, however, have any sort of 'Stand Your Ground' type laws. if you're out and about, you're obligated to retreat, if you can.

    5. if you can afford it, get some sort of video recording system, and install it somwhere you can catch this scumbag in the act.

    6. stop confronting the guy. you're solving nothing by trying to out tough a tough guy. it makes you look like an idiot.
     
  21. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    Contact the owner of the apartment and explain to him that he needs to evict the offending tenant. If not evicted get a lawer that specializes in tenant issues and remove yourself from the apartment. This is a quality of life issue as well as a safety and security.
    That owner/landlord is responsible to a reasonable extent by screening the tenants moving in. You have legal recourse should he try to seek to damage your credit rating by you breaking the lease and moving out.
    As far as credit rating goes if he screened that bum who moved in as a neighbor of yours chances are he wouldn't have moved in. I suspect money was the motive to put him in there in the first place. The owner probably needed to fill the rent space. Get an attorney to talk to him if action is not taken. Get a lawyer if one takes the case.
    My suggestion to you is to get a gun for the next apartment before buying one now. Thinking with your head should come first.

    P.S BTW out of curosity did you go a little cheap on this apartment?
     
  22. ilcylic

    ilcylic Member

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    I would like to second the advice of everyone here who is urging you to move.

    The big thing to remember here is, no matter what moving out of your apartment will cost you, even if this is a perfectly legally justified shoot, you're going to spend $50,000 on lawyers keeping your self out of jail. Yes, your life is worth $50,000, but this should serve as a reminder that you only want to shoot an attacker if you are truly in danger. If you have the chance to leave before your life is in danger, it will save you a lot of money.

    It's not like you're being forced to move out of a house you own. Yes, it's your place, but it's just an apartment. Yes, it hurts your pride to be pushed out, I get that, but think on what the blow to your pride is worth to you in dollar figures.
     
  23. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I don't think you should move, actually. Running from some punk on the street is one thing, but you should not be forced to leave your home because of some bully. These kind of jerks are a dime a dozen and crop up everywhere, so you might as well deal with the one you've got. Of course it's up to you. I do agree that getting in a back-and-forth argument with him is foolish. Do not even talk to him. Have nothing to do with him directly. If you're going to record something to send to your landlord, record his music playing loud and send that.

    With a guy like this, warning him that you're armed is just a challenge that he feels he must respond to. Say NOTHING to him. You did right calling the cops, and it's unfortunate they were of no help. I've had much better results with my own local pd at getting rid of neighbors. I put up with pot smoke (this is AK) but crack pipes prompt me to call the cops. I don't respond to threats of vengeance or whatever. It's a lot of talk and not worth getting in an argument over. You need to think in terms of responding to ACTIONS, not words. Does he have a weapon in his hand? Is he breaking down your door? These are the important issues.
     
  24. pbearperry

    pbearperry Member

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    Every time the guy acts up break out the cam corder and document it.State the date and time.If the Police and lanlord do nothing,get an attorney .You have the right to live in peace.Hit this guy where it hurts....in the wallet.Outside of that,move to keep your sanity.
     
  25. will500

    will500 Member

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    That's what I was thinking. We'll send a letter, signed, video tapped and they will have to sign to receive.
     
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