Visitor from the Census Bureau?

[Prophet]

MODS; If this isn't the right place please move it! I think this applies as far as "keeping yourself safe" goes.

Wow, what a pleasant afternoon we've had with our local government.

Today we recieved a call from PENNDOT about a driveway onto our property. My dad was nearby (on the property, but not at home) so my mother took the call. She was very polite with the man who was making the call, and said that he would probably do best to explain the situation to my dad at a later time (ie, when he returned.) At this point the guy began getting very pushy and snotty, accused my parents of breaking the law, and that the drive we are using did not have the proper permits. My mother knew that this was false, and told the guy in no uncertain terms that she did not appreciate his attitude. Then she explained that the driveway was legal and that he had better do a bit more research before making false accusations. She then concluded the conversation, telling the man that she would go find my dad (somewhere on our +40 acre land) and that he (the caller) should call back in fifteen minutes. He never did, by the way.

So, off she went to find my dad. I stayed here at the house. She had been gone for about 3 minutes, I suppose, when an unmarked gold Dodge Dakota came up our drive, passed our house, and stopped at the garage. The driver appeared to be talking on a cell phone, so I assumed that it might have been the man who called looking for my dad. After he parked, I began walking back to the garage to meet him. I checked the truck for state markings but could not see any.

I got halfway there when I realize the guy has gotten out of his truck and is walking all over the place. There was a steel pile laying about 18-20ft (guesstimate) from his truck, and he was standing near or on top of it. My dad sometime tells people that they can have stuff or barters things out for his scrap steel or other parts, so I was kind of thinking that my dad probably told him that he could have something and he was just coming to get it.

At this point he turned his back to me and started heading in the direction of the garage. At first I wondered why he was doing an about-face from the direction I was coming, and then I saw why. Mom was coming from behind the garage and headed in our direction. Apparently, she had not been able to find dad.

The man greeted Mom with an abrupt "hello", and gave her a brisk (albeit brief, thanks to her) explanation as to why he was traipsing about our property. He claimed to be from the Census Bureau. At this point I finally got an eyeful of the guy. He was overweight, in his late 40's or early 50's, wearing a red stripedy polo shirt, ( sloppy and untucked), had a 5-0'clock shadow, and was carrying a GPS. A real sight. Not looking in any way professional. My mother asked, "well, then what are you doing all the way back here at the garage?" and then asked him to leave. He replied that he was "looking for houses" and that she had "better take a real good look at/in* my truck, I'm from the government," (exact words.)

This is what puzzles me most about the whole situation. There was no real reason to look at his truck for the reason he was implying. I had at first assumed that this was the man who called, so I had checked the parked truck as best I could to see if it was a gov't. vehicle. There were no marks indicating any such thing at all. (I know, I'm dumb... I should have gotten a license plate. I'm learning.)

*whether the guy said "at" or "in" his truck is a matter of debate. My mother said later that she remembered him saying "in", I remember "at".

Anyway, so the encounter continued. We weren't about to go anywhere near the guy's truck, as we couldn't determine whether or not he was telling the truth. After he said this, mom again stated that she didn't care if he was from the government, and told him again to leave. He refused, saying "I don't care if you like it or not. I'm here to verify your address."

At this point, my mother finally got frustrated with the fellow and turned to walk back to the house. As she did, she put her back to the man revealing the .38spl clipped at the small of her back . As I went around him from behind to follow her, I realized by the look on his face that he'd seen it. He blinked a few times, GPS in hand, and then asked with a stutter, "this is 10844 Loop RD, right?" My Mom gave an abrupt affirmative and kept on walking. I followed her. As I went past the parked truck to get home, I checked it out again for markings. There were none.

When we got back and inside the house, the guy turned around and came back, then parked his truck in front of our house for a couple of minutes. Then he pulled out and left.

When my dad got home and received all of this information, (his wife being the butt of the abuse both with the caller and the visitor) he was ticked. He called our representatives, and filed a report with the police. A courteous police officer responded to the call and took reports from myself, mom and dad. We told him that we feared it might have been some sort of weird hoax. He said that it was definitely legit and that he'd put it on file.

That concludes today's episode. The only reason I'm posting this is for discussion, critiquing, suggestions, and what I/we did wrong (I'm sure there are some things we could have done better.)

 

[Zundfolge]

As I went around him from behind to follow her, I realized by the look on his face that he'd seen it. He blinked a few times, GPS in hand, and then asked with a stutter, "this is 10844 Loop RD, right?"

I wonder if at that moment he was thinking about Farver Beans and Chianti.


I would consider contacting the local census office and registering some sort of complaint with them. Regardless of whether he's "just doing his job" or not, his attitude and tone were unprofessional and abrasive and believe it or not the Census dept. doesn't want any bad press.

 

[LibShooter]

Did he ever produce any kind of ID from his car? If not, ask him to leave. If so, maybe he's a jerk, but a jerk doing his job. A job written into the Constitution right there with the 2nd Amendment.

I don't mean to defend his terrible attitude.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Note the bolding below. Never hesitate to ask for ID from anyone who speaks with you claiming an official role- most will display ID upon stating their purpose for being on your property, if their status is not obvious from a uniform. It pays to be suspicious these days. Calling to verify ID and purpose is not out of bounds either- keep a cell phone handy as well as a sidearm.

lpl
====

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/2010_census/013441.html

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 25, 2009
Shelly Lowe
Public Information Office
301-763-3691
e-mail: <[email protected]>
CB09-CR.03
2010 Census Web Site
Fact Sheet [PDF-214K]

Census Workers to Verify Addresses in the U.S.
First Major 2010 Census Operation to Employ 140,000
The Census Bureau will launch a massive operation on March 30 to verify and update more than 145 million addresses as it prepares to conduct the 2010 Census.

Nationwide, more than 140,000 census workers will participate in the address canvassing operation, a critically important first step in assuring that every housing unit receives a census questionnaire in March 2010. All information is kept confidential. The countdown to the 2010 Census is officially one year out on April 1.

“A complete and accurate address list is the cornerstone of a successful census,” said Tom Mesenbourg, acting director of the U.S. Census Bureau. “Building on the achievements of the 2000 Census, we have been testing and preparing for the 2010 count all decade, and we’re ready to fulfill our constitutional mandate to count everyone living in the United States.”

The first publicly visible activity of the 2010 Census is ahead of schedule. Address canvassing kicks off a week earlier than originally planned and should conclude by mid-July. The operation will use new hand-held computers equipped with GPS to increase geographic accuracy. The ability to capture GPS coordinates for most of the nation’s housing units will greatly reduce the number of geographic coding errors caused by using paper maps in previous counts.

“The primary goal of the census is to count everyone once, only once, and in the right place,” Mesenbourg said. “Because the census is used for reapportioning seats in the U.S. House of Representatives and the distribution of more than $300 billion in federal dollars every year to state and local governments, it’s essential to get this first step right.”

Over the last several years, the Census Bureau has been actively working on updating its geographic databases and master address files. From implementing the Local Update of Census Address program where more than 11,500 tribal, state and local governments participated in a review of the Census Bureau’s address list for their area, to increasing the precision of the GPS mapping, many advances have been made to compile the most comprehensive listing of addresses in the nation.

The address canvassing operation will be conducted out of 151 local census offices across the U.S, with most offices beginning on April 6. In most cases, census workers will knock on doors to verify addresses and inquire about additional living quarters on the premises. This is the first census to include group quarters (such as dormitories, group homes, prisons and homeless shelters) in the address canvassing operation, which should improve both the accuracy and coverage of the final count.

There will be one final opportunity to add new home construction in early 2010 prior to the mailing of the census questionnaires.

Census workers can be identified by the official Census Bureau badge they carry. During the address canvassing operation, census workers may ask to verify a housing structure’s address and whether there are additional living quarters on the property.

2010 Census workers will never ask for bank or social security information. All census information collected, including addresses, are confidential and protected by law. By law, the Census Bureau cannot share respondents’ answers with the FBI, the IRS, CIA, Welfare, Immigration, or any other government agency. No court of law or law enforcement agency can find out respondents’ answers. All Census Bureau employees — including temporary employees — take an oath for life to keep census information confidential. Any violation of that oath is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and five years in prison.

 

[Squeaky Duck]

Personally I think your mom did right showing she had the ability to "take care problems" when that so-called census idiot saw her carrying. Kudos to your mom.

Gov't employees are supposed to ID themselves to you. And you have the right to refuse admittance to your property to all trespassers.

 

[Sheldon J]

Census guy did a walk by yesterday...

The wife N I were out in the yard, I had on my XD in the Galco with 2 spare mags, the Shoulder rig works best for yard work...

N he was doing rough drawings of the houses on the North side of the road only, N yes he did have the credentials....
But it was all still very strange..... Why do they need to know the property layout's on the North side of the road for the next census??????

 

[Prophet]

his attitude and tone were unprofessional and abrasive

Indeed, he was a really cantankerous little guy.

Did he ever produce any kind of ID from his car? If not, ask him to leave.

No he did not. He did not seem to have the means to identify himself. We didn't explicitly ask for ID, but by all means he should have shown it to us. We've run into this problem before (The ID thing) and it will definitely not be an issue again. Ask for ID.

Never hesitate to ask for ID from anyone who speaks with you claiming an official role- most will display ID upon stating their purpose for being on your property, if their status is not obvious from a uniform. It pays to be suspicious these days. Calling to verify ID and purpose is not out of bounds either- keep a cell phone handy as well as a sidearm.

Again, this won't be an issue ever again. ID will be priority from now on. And yes, suspicion is a good thing. Readiness is a good thing. At my home, we always try to be ready. That's why I'm asking for advice.

Thanks for the article!

Gov't employees are supposed to ID themselves to you. And you have the right to refuse admittance to your property to all trespassers.

And that he did not do. He only claimed that he was from CB. This is why mom told him to leave. It was almost the first thing out of her mouth.

Let me get a few things straight here, though.

1; Mom asked the guy to leave twice. He blatantly refused both times. If he wasn't who he said he was, then this would be considered trespassing. However, if he was who he said he was, would his actions and refusal to leave be considered trespassing? He seemed to simply be snooping around (there wasn't any reason that I could think of for his being 20ft away from his vehicle on/near this pile of steel).

2; If he wasn't who he said he was, were we right in being fearful of getting near his truck? The fact that there were simply no markings on the truck, thus being no logical reason for his calling our attention to it, and the debate between mom and I whether he said "in" (which would be difficult to do without getting very near to the truck) or "at" is disconcerting.


Thanks so much for the commentaries and suggestions so far.

 

[Threeband]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=97208

Whatever's going on, I don't like it.

Anyway, he doesn't sound like a legit representative of Big Brother anyway.

He could have been scoping out your place for a robbery, and lied about the census thing, knowing they were in your area.

Did you have your cell phone? I wionder how he would have reacted to being photographed.

 

[gallowglas]

Last time I got counted in the census, the gentleman his ID pinned to his jacket.

 

[moccasin]

After loosing her job my daughter-in-law checked into a temporary "Census Bureau" job, going door to door like in the OP situation. Turn out that while it actually was for the census, it was not as a government employee. Hard to tell what kind of questionable looking indiviuals you may see going door to door for the census. If you are not satisfied with their identification and they refuse to leave when asked, call your local law enforcement.

 

[Prophet]

Threeband; that is what I was talking about. A person at our representatives office actually referenced that article. The concerns about robbery are legit too. There has been a robbery spree in my neighborhood as of lately. One of my best buddies lost a couple of guns... Dan Wesson .44 among them.

I do not have a cell phone. We are a bit remote and cannot get service. This is why I was pleased (read, suprised) at the officer's visit. However, I do photography and usually have my camera with me. Just not this time. I wasn't planning on needing it. However, for some poetic or ironic reason, I did have a digital recorder in my pocket. With no batteries. Weird.

 

[carlrodd]

i heard on the radio today that this has something to do with a UN-driven effort to create a database of every habitable location, world-wide, and that the 2010 census is the means to collect this sort of physical location data being discussed here. i'm not making stuff up. i'll try to dig up a link.

one of the guys that did this sort of data collection at one point called into the show. they are contracted and get paid 11.75 and hour. they are not directly employed by the US government.

 

[Jeff White]

i heard on the radio today that this has something to do with a UN-driven effort to create a database of every habitable location, world-wide, and that the 2010 census is the means to collect this sort of physical location data being discussed here. i'm not making stuff up. i'll try to dig up a link.

Don't dig up a link. The rules about staying on topic will be enforced. Ways to identify a person claiming to be a census worker are on topic. UN plots to record the location of every habitable location world wide are not on topic in S&T or anywhere else at THR.

 

[Trebor]

Census workers are issued ID's and are expected to wear them when working.

The "enumerators" that go from door-to-door use their own vehicles and the vehicles do not typically have any identifying markings. (They are just private cars, after all).

If he works for the Census he should have had ID and been able to produce it if and when asked.

 

[AKElroy]

We had a similar visit from the census bureau about a month ago. I was not home, and the worker was measuring the outside of our house. I always thought the census was about counting people, not measuring my house. He was finishing up when my wife saw him. He never rang the bell or asked permisson. He left a card on the door. If they eventually come into my house to count how many TV's I have, a may wind up on the news.

 

[Joe Demko]

I have found that screaming and clutching at my crotch at random intervals while talking with census workers makes the conversations gratifyingly short.

 

[isp2605]

It's what Moccasin wrote. There was a notice sent out about 4 months ago asking for people to do just what the OP said the guy was doing. They were looking to contract 1.4 million people to do the surveys/locations. A couple of our retirees hired on to do it. They're contractual workers, not government employees. They have an area assigned to them. They can do their checks any time except during hours of darkness. Pay range was $10-$25 per hour depending on assignment. Not really a bad gig as you work whenever you want and just report the stats. Paperwork is minimal.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Prophet,

Assuming you have a landline phone, then installing a good cordless phone system should allow you phone access anyplace on your property, unless it is relatively large. Our 900mhz system will 'reach' anywhere on our five acres. The ability to communicate is important, never more so than in an emergency.

lpl

 

[sarge83]

No ID, a snotty attitude and snooping around my property even after being asked to leave. At the minimum the sheriff gets a call then and there and I get a tag number. If he is with the CB he is a pure idiot and just asking to get arrested, shot or his head thumped at some point with his actions.

 

[mbt2001]

Get some FRS / GMRS / Handheld CB radio's....

That will easily cover 40 acres and you will have coms up in case of an emergency.

Regarding the census folks, if they don't look professional, they are tresspassing so call the police. If he is a governmental worker, no harm done BUT you get the joy of watching his squirm... Yeah, attitude gone...

 

[HammerG26]

Just to verify - regardless on who "they" work for... unless they have a warrant, they have to leave if you ask / tell them to, right?

 

[Prophet]

HammerG26, Good question. I'm pretty sure that this applies to only the homestead itself but I am not certain. I have plenty of stories I could tell about this situation as well (ie, Police/Juvenile Detention Center employees looking for and capturing delinquents on the run or hiding on our property) but that is slightly off topic. I'm just saying that I'd be interested in an elaboration on this point as well. Whether or not this would be a state or federal issue is beyond me.

edit; mbt2001, could you elaborate on what you mean by "coms up" in case of emergency? I've been in the market for a good set of GMRS walkie-talkies for quite some time.

 

[03Shadowbob]

I think you have to answer how many people are in your faily and that is it. I am probably wrong though
If someone doesn't have ID, are on my property AND smarting off to my mom, they may just have some unforeseen problems.

 

[Zundfolge]

How much is a GPS grid of every American household worth to the enemies of America, both foreign and domestic? I’d estimate, PRICELESS!

Yeah, because none of those folk have ever heard of Google Maps.

As someone that works in the mapping industry, let me tell you they don't need to send Acorn goons out with Garmin units to find us.

Go google GIS

 

[tkopp]

That's some crazy talk right there.

My mom helped gather data in the last census ten years ago, and I was visited by a census taker this year. I'd received a letter at my home address about a month and a half in advance, and I let her in. I'd been at the range earlier and was still cleaning my Mosin Nagant 91/30, with a couple handguns cleaned and ready to go on the table in front of me. She asked her questions there on the other end of the living room as I kept cleaning -- my rough income, how many people lived here, what my electric bill was last month, what ethnicity I identified myself as. Very basic demographic survey questions. Whole process took about 15 minutes and she was on her way. No black helicopters overhead since then.