Vote YES on this poll - Do you think authoraties over reacted to knife?

[hso]

The school made the decision after someone pointed to the guys Youtube videos reviewing games and airsoft and gear and providing self defense advice. That made them nervous.

The other fact to consider in the school/LE reaction is that he didn't cooperate and even denied them permission to search and requested an attorney and they took his keys and searched his vehicle against his wishes. Pushback isn't appreciated by some authorities and their reactions can be other than dispassionate.

 

[ugaarguy]

All I am saying is that I wouldn't press for an EXCEPTION to the law for this one person, just because he wants to be a firefighter or w/e. If he broke the law, and if the evidence was obtained legally, then it's the law that's messed up. Not the application of said law.

Actually, we aren't asking for an exception for just this one person. We're pointing out that these laws are beyond messed up. We're saying that the laws shouldn't be written such that a kid like this has his life permanently ruined over something as trivial as a pocket knife. Further, if a law is unjust then the executive branch has a duty not to enforce it, and the judicial branch has a duty not to uphold it. We're saying that the prosecutor should back off because the law is unjust.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Ah...but prosecuting a law that is unjust, when it's a certain conviction, is simply another feather in the professional hat of the prosecutor.'

For professional and political bean counters, this is what matters. A track record of refusing to prosecute certian laws simply does not carry the same weight as having a whole stack of prosecutions won weighed against a very tiny stack of prosecutions lost.

 

[JShirley]

Gloob, you clearly did not read the story carefully.

A high school senior in Ohio is facing felony charges after officials at the technical school he was attending for firefighter training ..."If I am convicted of a felony...I won't even be able to be a janitor. I'm 18 years old, and this is going to ruin my entire life."

On Dec. 12, 2013, administrators at A-Tech approached Wiser after someone allegedly tipped them off about videos Wiser had uploaded to YouTube.

The YouTube account in question appears to include reviews of video games and merchandise, demonstrations on home defense tactics and an interview with a local police officer.

JMR, I know of at least three cases where teachers attacked students, so "I'm sure it's really the kid's fault" doesn't ring true at all, to me. I also know of numerous cases of police/prosecutorial over-reactions, to include felony charges, such as a nephew of mine being charged with manslaughter when someone left a party at his place, passed out in the woods, and died of exposure.

 

[hartcreek]

There is so much that is not stated...The kid is certified as an Emergency Vehicle Operator in such a position alone he is probably required to carry certain items by law. In this area we have volunteer fire department people that are still in high school and they are required to have their gear in their vehicle so they can respond.

 

[GLOOB]

Re: Jshirley
In one of those articles the boy states he has been training to be a firefighter since he was 14.

Fwiw I was once a certified EMT. Nowhere was there ever a mention of a knife. The only thing I was encouraged to purchase and carry in my vehicle was a barrier mask and latex gloves. At that particular point in my life I rarely carried a pocket knife, but I occasionally carried a folding knife. Under 4" per local law.

 

[hso]

I rarely carried a pocket knife, but I occasionally carried a folding knife.

Gloob,

A "pocket knife" is a "folding knife" since a fixed blade can't be a pocket knife.

I ran around with a bunch of Rural Metro HS guys and they all carried a folding knife for cutting clothing and seat belts. It wasn't a big deal then and it shouldn't be a big deal now.

 

[GLOOB]

I could have been clearer. What I meant was, "I rarely carried a pocketknife, but on the occasions I did carry a pocketknife, it was in compliance with the law."

I agree it's no big deal for someone to carry a legal knife. I also happen to think it's no big deal to carry a pocketable knife that is bigger than 4", nor to have one in your car. I happen to have a 20" knife in my truck, at this very moment, but I have that right by virtue of where I reside. Some jurisdictions don't agree.

I don't know what the charges are, here, but that doesn't seem to stop everyone else from jumping to conclusions. There might be a reason other students were not charged, criminally, but he is. Like, maybe he was breaking a law which the other students did not.

 

[hso]

Blade length laws are uniformly misdemeanors except in rare situations. Blade shape/mechanism laws can be either misdemeanors or felonies depending upon the state/local law.

Here are the links to the applicable state laws where this incident has occurred.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.11
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.20
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122

There does not appear to be any blade length restrictions. Since the knife was in the vehicle and the vehicle wasn't occupied at the time it was searched the carry rules shouldn't apply. All making this even more puzzling unless a local ordinance had a blade length restriction (but since the knife was in the vehicle it would be difficult to apply the carry laws where blade length restrictions always apply). The only application of the law that might fit easily is the prohibition on possession of "switchblade knife, springblade knife, gravity knife", otherwise they appear to be applying the definition of a "deadly weapon" along with 2934.122.E (1) and unless that knife was "designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon." they've pushed the charges too far.

 

[nifty1940]

I agree entirely with this comment. As an Aussie, i am concerned my country is heading down the same path. Our firearm laws are stringent, and now many victims are wounded and murdered with edged weapons. Now the powers to be ARE seriously talking of BANNING knives - even kitchen ones! We have the same idiotic, off-the-planet knee-jerkists here, and they're getting worse.

 

[ChaoSS]

...otherwise they appear to be applying the definition of a "deadly weapon" along with 2934.122.E (1) and unless that knife was "designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon." they've pushed the charges too far.

I think that this is the case. I wonder if, in any of his videos, he ever, at any point, mentioned the ability to use a knife in self defense. That would be used as proof that he intended it as a weapon.



Personally I think that these sorts of laws are terribly vague. Proving intent can be impossible, but then, we all know that convincing a jury can sometimes be all too easy. Under the letter of the law, a specifically designed target rifle should be perfectly legal on school grounds, yet I have no doubt that at least most of the prosecutors would be happy to charge someone for having on in their car on school grounds.

I agree entirely with this comment. As an Aussie, i am concerned my country is heading down the same path. Our firearm laws are stringent, and now many victims are wounded and murdered with edged weapons. Now the powers to be ARE seriously talking of BANNING knives - even kitchen ones! We have the same idiotic, off-the-planet knee-jerkists here, and they're getting worse.

Sounds a lot like England. Not long ago I was hearing serious discussion about banning (don't know if it went through or not, but it's probably only a matter of time) long pointy kitchen knives. Something about how you could make do with a long kitchen knife that wasn't pointy, and a short kitchen knife that was, for the times you needed a point on a kitchen knife.

Probably won't be too long before you have to be a license food preparer to own any kitchen knives, after all, you can just buy food presliced....

 

[Radagast]

Nifty1940:
http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/ is a good reference if you like sharp pointy things. It's not always doom and gloom, in 2005 I had a part in stopping a ban on pump action and lever action rifles. We (SSAA, IPSC & others) stopped in cold the night before it was to be announced at the police ministers conference.

 

[hso]

Gents,

Let's at least stay focused on the knife issue and leave the gun control topics, except how they directly relate to this thread, for the General or Activism forums.

 

[Radagast]

Agreed, and I apologize for going off topic.

 

[Sol]

I don't forsee any 4th amendment cases with this one.

I had a student policy handbook in high school of which you were given two copies of: one to keep, one to turn in signed by the student and their respective guardian(s).

It's been a long time but the book explicitly stated, not verbatim: if it's on public school GROUNDS (which I imagine encompasses ALL school property including parking lots) faculty has the reserves right to search it. If his car was parked in their lot, I don't see too much legal recourse in the 4A department.

 

[hso]

Unless he expressly denied them permission and requested an attorney before the search.