VT "Corps of Cadets" ?

[crebralfix]

Cadets...sidearms...are you kidding??!!?!?

We were given a ball bearing...our "military" bearing. People couldn't even keep track of that! They'd leave their sidearm on the street if given half a chance.

 

[usp9]

I'm a '75 graduate of VPI&SU. Lot's of bad info posted here so far. The cadet corps is a 24/7 military unit within the school. If you want to be in R.O.T.C. at Tech you must be in the Corps. The advantage is that the training is more extensive than in a regular R.O.T.C. program.

What they actually use for FTX training now I don't know. In the '70's the Corps had a very nicely equiped armory. For example, I "captured" a M60 on an exercise once. I still drool thinking about that vaultroom filled with weapons. Drill was and still is done with the '03s I believe. It's a very good rifle to drill with due to the balance and lack of appendages. It can be made to rattle like Russian tank.

Normal R.O.T.C. training is accomplished along with summer camp, pilot training, advanced leadership, etc. Many cadets for example earn their jump wings at Bragg, (but only after signing a contract).

I've many fond memories of the Upper Quad, Lane Hall, Rasche, the Drill Field, and some great guys, many of whom served our country well.

 

[possum]

hehe. Anyone who's been a cadet (or has been their cadre, or otherwise spent much time with them individually) would find the idea of cadets with sidearms absolutely hilarious.

Individuals having CCW is understandable...but being a cadet doesn't make them magically superior. They're regular students. Most of the cadet corps at these historically military schools aren't even "in" the military at all...and of those that are, they're no more "qualified" than any other in usage of a handgun. IN places like T A&M and VT, most of the cadet corps is nothing much more than a fraternal organization. Cadets, of those that actually contracted and seeking a commission are initial entry semi-soldiers. They're not fully trained...as much as a week 6 basic training recruit is not a fully funtioning enlisted soldier, a contracted cadet is not a fully functioning commissioned officer.

Also, keep in mind actual active duty Soldiers are restricted in carrying sidearms while not in a specific duty function. The military is downright fascist in its allowance of issued weapons and privately owned weapons. Active duty JOe on post is not armed 95% of the time (and NONE carry concealed save maybe CID or something). Why would college students who happen to be cadets (and in cases like VT, most likely not even in the Army)?

my point exactly. this came up on another thread and i tried to explain it but it didn't seem to help! good luck!

 

[K-Romulus]

Air Force Cadet Matthew LaPorte: RIP

I have seen numerous internet board comments that say Cadet LaPorte rushed Cho and tried to take him down. I haven't been able to find a definitive accounting of what happened.

Here is one example of the comments:

http://petsrepresent.blogspot.com/2007/04/healing.html

he tried to stop the gunman... he was the only student who wasn't found in his desk. really, I'm not surprised. when I met Matt, I knew that he was something special. I had a feeling that if he wasn't going to die of natural causes, it would have been trying to protect his friends. What a noble young man.Rest in Peace Matthew ♥

Here is the best mainstream news article I have seen:

http://www.abc27.com/news/stories/0407/416242.html

From abc27:
21 Gun Salute for One Virginia Tech Casualty
Location: New Bloomfield

Reporter: Ali Lanyon
Posted: April 20, 2007 4:52 PM EST
URL: http://www.abc27.com/news/stories//416242.html

New Bloomfield -

A Perry County military school said goodbye to a graduate who died in the Virginia Tech shootings. Carson Long Military Institute in New Bloomfield had a memorial service for Matthew Laporte Friday afternoon.

Hundreds gathered in the chapel at Carson Long Military Institute to pay their last respects. Laporte graduated from Carson Long last year. Half of Matt's graduating class traveled to Carson Long to honor Laporte. Friends say he was shy, but focused.

According to reports Laporte acted as a hero during the Virginia Tech Shooting. Laporte ran towards the shooter hoping to save his classmates. Matt's former teacher at Carson Long, Lt. Garry Hallman, was proud to hear about Laporte's actions in his final moments.

"We had the fortune of knowing him as a boy. The world has the fortune of knowing him as a man, says Lt. Hallman. "It is our hope that everyone just remembers what he wanted out of life was to help other people. As it turned out he did just that. So, we are all very touched."

Laporte went to Virginia Tech on a scholarship.

and more bio:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/virginiatechshooting/main2698407.shtml

CBS/AP)

Matt La Porte, 20, a freshman from Dumont, N.J., was a 2005 graduate of Carson Long Military Institute, in New Bloomfield, Pa.

Carson Long posted a memorial photograph of La Porte in his school uniform on its Web site.

La Porte credited the military institute with turning his life around. In a graduation speech printed in the school yearbook, La Porte said that the military institute was his second chance.

La Porte was attending Virginia Tech on an Air Force ROTC scholarship, according to officials in Dumont.

First Lieutenant Garry Hallman was a friend and instructor at Carson Long who said he kept in touch with his former student. He says La Porte was a member of Virginia Tech's Corps of Cadets and was considering majoring in political science.

According to his profile on a music Web site, La Porte's favorite artists were Meshuggah, Metallica, Soundgarden, Creed and Live.

 

[Titan6]

USP9- Things have changed a little. I can assure you it is quite possible (although rare and frowned upon) to be in ROTC without being a member of the Corps. ROTC is a separate entity from the school and they take everyone who is a student there, in the Corps or not. There is a pecking order of Corp, not Corp...

Also, I forgot about the Virginia Women's Institute for Leadership at Mary Baldwin College. This is also a military school within a school at Mary Baldwin College, with their own Corps. Like the college itself, it is only open to females. I think students there number around 150. They carry demilled M1 Garands that have had the firing pin removed and a welded rod shoved down the barrel. Truly a tragedy that occurred with those beautiful old rifles.

 

[Xarph]

Speaking of cadets being armed and responsible...

VTCC Rats (Freshmen) are supposed to come to attention when an upperclassman came into your dorm room. They would usually knock twice before bursting in. Sometimes they would not. They slowly and quietly turn the knob, kick to door open and try to scare the crap out of you.

There was one bully type Sophomore who thought this trick was great fun. He became a real pain in the ass. I became fed up.

I took some .22 rounds, removed the lead bullet and replaced it with wax. These rounds were then loaded in my .22 revolver and used to shoot flys in the dorm room. I decided to use them for another purpose.

Sitting at my desk, I heard the door knob turning. I picked up my .22 fly shooter and waited for the door to burst open. As the Sophomore came through the door I fired two wax rounds at his belly while shouting, "you son of a bitch!"

The poor guy grabbed his belly, screamed, bent over and whined. When he realized that he was still alive and uninjured, he walked out the door while shaking all over. He never reported me. He never bothered me or any of my classmates again.

Today, 40 years later, I am horrified by my actions that day. In the context of the time and place my prank was actually a lot kinder than some of the other methods used for dealing with overbearing upperclassman - but those methods did not involve the irresponsible usage of firearms.

 

[RealGun]

Would an armed cadet, a privileged class of student, have personal liability for the safety of every student? I think this whole concept is an effort to seed the campus with pseudo-cops, extending the anti-gun notion that average people should not be allowed to carry firearms.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Some of you guys need to lighten up. This is tongue in cheek musing. Probably from us older guys who went to school when it would not be unusual for kids and teachers to have guns in the classroom. I can;lt remember there was even an issue of "concealed carry." Heck we carried anytime we felt like prowling in the fields and woods after school.

On a more serious side, while some of the cadets here may have been irresponsible and clueless, I know my daughter, some of her rook brothers, and my future son-in-law would are much better than the average Joe with handguns and responsibility. She has been shooting since she was about 12.

All any one is suggesting is that any adult student that is old enough to obtain a CHL ought to be able to have one on campus. I just happen to think based on the cdets I have met that as a group they would be more likely to be familiar with firearms and trained to respond in some fashion. certainly they are not active duty military nor LEO.

Does any one here think that only military and LEO ought to be carrying? Let's not start disparaging citizens as unfit, or untrustworthy, to defend themselves or others. Less trained, probably. Unfit, not in any land claiming liberty as an ideal.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

...my thought was "If he got a contracted cadet, I'm going to say without a doubt that their CCW policy got people killed unnecessarily"

He had the mindset. He didn't have the equipment. By this point (end of sophomore year) pretty much the entire Army and Marine depts here have gotten their intro to the M9 classes and famfires.

Could I lead a platoon in Iraq with what training I have right now? Heck no.

Would I have an even chance at one psycho with a pistol, provided I had one of my own? Definitely.

 

[usp9]

For accuracy sake...

http://www.vtcc.vt.edu/About/ROTC/
"At Virginia Tech, only those students enrolled in the Corps of Cadets may participate in one of the three ROTC programs."

Titan6 USP9- Things have changed a little. I can assure you it is quite possible (although rare and frowned upon) to be in ROTC without being a member of the Corps.

The above link clearly says to enjoy ROTC one must be a member of the CC. Titan6, where are you getting contradictory info? While it has been over thirty years, I think the requirement still stands. If you can provide a link or reference I'd like to see it. Thanks.

 

[Xarph]

Not withstanding armed Cadets, if this photograph had been taken at the VA Tech snack bar, we would not be having this conversation.

 

[Titan6]

That is odd. When I was there in the mid 90s it certainly was possible. Perhaps they changed the policy back.

 

[Jerry Morris]

What gives me pause about the VT shootings, particularly with the revelation that there were cadets in those classrooms, is 'why didn't anyone physcially resist/try to overpower the shooter'? I wasn't there and can't honestly say how I would have reacted, but even with only rudimentary weapons the victims grossly outnumbered the shooter. Why didn't these future military officers have the presence to lead an attack and overpower the shooter after the first couple of shootings? That question bugs me.

My thoughts exactly. One resistor is going to be having problems. A swarm would have overwhelmed the shooter. Some still wounded, or dead, but likely a significantly fewer. And less "glory" for the shooter. But, this is a touchy subject. Be careful, or you can get bushwhacked.

Jerry

 

[TallPine]

I'm sorry I started this thread

My only point was that there was as least one person in one of the classrooms where shooting took place, who had the mindset to defend himself and his classmates. Unfortunately, he did not also have the means, nor did anyone join in and help him.

 

[RealGun]

My only point was that there *was *as least one person in one of the classrooms where shooting took place, who had the mindset to defend himself and his classmates.

Yes, we could lighten up, but again here you make an assumption that a cadet had any special mindset. If you were referring to any CHL holder present, I could follow you, except that A CHL holder would feel rather naked, extremely frustrated, and probably wishing he or she had extensive martial arts training. Carrying the handgun is supposed to be the equalizer, to include small women...anyone who would choose not to go easily as a victim and otherwise qualifies.

I would rather be in a class with about 6 huge football players as an intimidation factor, but it wouldn't be their job to protect me, nor should I expect them to be threatening heroes off the playing field.

There is just no logic that would justify some special class of students being armed or expected to react, when some would otherwise qualify to carry on their own.

What if there was an armed cop in every class? Well, that would just be another way to avoid allowing concealed carry by "the people". Meanwhile, the police would not have any legal liability for student safety. And how are you going to effectively staff such a force, let alone pay for it? Looking to cadets is a poor workaround. Not all of them are large, buff candidates for the football team nor should they be privileged in regard to carrying weapons. Few would even be of age for carrying a gun.

 

[rwdflynavy]

Another VTCC grad (1990) here. The way things were in the 80s/early 90s was that you had to be in the Corps to participate in ROTC with the exception of prior enlisted folks enrolled in officer programs. They could skip the Corps and just participate in the ROTC stuff.

 

[TallPine]

Actually I was trying to make an argument for legal CCW on college campuses (or is that "campi" ?) - I guess it just didn't come out right

 

[gengarnett]

Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets and the Texas Aggie Corps of Cadets are institutions to be respected, there are damn few left in this country. Neither Corps has anything to do with this tragedy, and to question them is out of line.

 

[Jerry Morris]

Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets and the Texas Aggie Corps of Cadets are institutions to be respected, there are damn few left in this country. Neither Corps has anything to do with this tragedy, and to question them is out of line.

I did not read anything here that denigrated the Corps. In fact I came away with a positive view of it.

Jerry

 

[gengarnett]

i dont' want to take this too far, but the inclination is that cadet corps members could/should have been armed to defend against this murderer. It may be the case that cadet corps members could be trained to carry personal sidearms, but that would only protect a very very small percentage of college students. Most colleges do not have a cadet corps, in fact, many are chasing military recruiters away. Furthermore, the attack at VA Tech happened in one particular building (not counting the first attack) and happened in a few minutes.

the key is allowing ALL citizens who are licensed to carry to carry. In fact, VA Tech made a point of NOT alllowing concealed carry on their campus even though it was legal under Virginia law.