WAKE UP AGAIN

[Green Lantern]

The "shooting community" is shrinking because prosperity has, for most Americans, turned their swords into ploughshares. The primal martial impulse has either been blunted or converted into fantasy.

I don't disagree with you at all, but I just can't fathom WHY this is the case. Because it sure looks to me like crime is MORE rampant, and MORE violent than it has ever been...

And some GOOD news on the 1st-Amendment destroying "ethics" reform the Dems are trying to pass:

Big Win in the Senate... Thanks to Your Support!

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Friday, January 19, 2007


Congratulations! You have, once again, whupped the anti-gun zealots!

As Constitution-hating senators like California's Dianne Feinstein
whined and complained, the Senate -- by a narrow largely-party-line
vote of 55-43 -- struck language which would have required GOA to
monitor and report on its communications with its members and friends
(like you).

GOA has heard reports that there was an outpouring of calls against
this anti-speech language on Capitol Hill, and that it made a huge
difference.

In addition to the massive wave of grassroots opposition, GOA was
also working in concert with key Hill players (many of them trained
by GOA) to hammer out a legislative strategy that would either result
in the death of the entire bill or, at a minimum, kill the dangerous
Section 220.

The good news came late on Thursday night when the Bennett amendment
-- which deleted this unconstitutional "grassroots lobbying"
reporting language contained in S. 1 -- was adopted by the narrow
margin mentioned above.

The war is not over. The House has yet to produce its bill in this
area -- and no one is betting that the House will "do the right
thing." But we have won what perhaps will be the most important
battle.

The 43 Senators who voted to take us down the road of more government
regulation and more restrictions on the right of free speech -- a
road that would eventually make it harder for all of us to petition
our government servants -- are listed below:

Akaka (D-HI)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

But I fail to see where the OUTRAGE is among the many, many people that couldn't give less of a crap about RKBA if they tried, BUT cherish the FIRST Amendment?

Anyway, getting back to the heart of the matter -

How's about some ideas to help get fellow gun-owners motivated to get ACTIVE in defending the 2A?

Forget converting anti's for a moment, how do I manage to show people that DO enjoy guns that they may not be able to for much longer the way things are going in this nation?



As for getting people in here, I can work on that as soon as I send this!

 

[yenchisks]

You americans , you fight and fight and take one step back,then you draw line,then they attack and you take one step back ,you have lost and don't know it,the best way to evoke the american, is to take your 2nd ammendment away, then maybe your people get up and fight.in 20 or 50 years all gone 2nd ammendment.

 

[8ball]

All of the bs about reloads or ammo like cop killer bullets was just a gun hater in a gun owners clothing spewing crap.

Daniel, you really need to stop the "hate" and do something productive...

Yes some gunowners only care about their guns... By blasting them as antigunners you're not helping... You're only driving the wedge deeper. Pan them in your own mind... But please keep your rant switch turned off...

Unless gunowners as a whole start fighting for our rights we will slowly lose. You are willing to throw everyone who doesn't agree with you 100% under the bus, Do you have any idea how many people you'd have left if those are the only "true progun people"???

My point is this, you seriously need to rethink how you go about doing things... Merely spewing hate speech on an internet forum, is just gonna give the rest of us a bad name, and turn off some people who are on the fence...

Please go back out into the desert and leave the forums to the coherent ones....

 

[Deadmarsh]

rojoko:

Personally, I would not want you as a consultant to the NRA as a group that represents my interests...

You, Sir, are more a Chamberlain than a Churchill...


Dead

 

[rojoko]

Yet one more thing about the media

ASide from what we get bombarded with from the media with both TV and films, do any of you pay attention to the fact that roughly 80-90% of Hollywood fills the liberal/Democratic coffers unlike any other source of funding? Billary just got 100K from Liz Taylor. Both Clinton and Gore were out in LA early in the campaigns rubbing elbows with the likes of Jeff Katzenberg, George Clooney, Richard Dreyfuss (I went to high school with this S*B), Brian Grazier, Barbara Streisand, etc etc etc etc etc... all big contributors to the liberal causes... and very dangerous, because the Democrats have no problem with the idea that Americans cannot be trusted to run their own lifes... on any level. They're happy to tell us what we can and can't do, and even worse, they love big government, when we're LONG overdue to downsize the Government!!..

WAKE UP FOLKS.... time to take the battle back to more effective levels then just flapping your gums about it, or even sitting all nice and confortable in your home... typing away. It's going to take A LOT More to keep the 2nd ammendment in place!!

I'll be back this weekend, sorry way busy at work!!

 

[rojoko]

Hollowpoints

1911tuner,

You miss the point entirely (as usual for a shooter)....

The point being is that the American public has become so oblivious to the realities of weapons, shooting, etc that they have no idea of what the truth is, when it comes to self defense...

All they hear about day in and day out is that guns are bad... it comes to them on TV shows, especially the news, and definately in the movies...

You can't win when generation after generation especially in the major population centers of America that sit in front of the boob tube day in and day out... have their "reality" built for them by the liberal media.... Case in point, take a look at what the media does, everytime there's a shooting.... they work hard to make every gun owner with more then one weapon and a box of ammo is a deranged whacko.... I know.. I work in that media.

STOP thinking inside the box... it's NOT working... start thinking outside the box because that's where the battle really IS!!! And after all these years it still astonishes me that so few people actually see it! More over they can't seem to see how mismanaged the NRA is... because the NRA is just like the good old USA Government... damn near working for it's own satisfaction.. and definately NOT THE PEOPLE!! FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE!!

Why would LaPierre stay in place when he's so obviously bad at what he does??? Is that effective management? I can go on.. but I wish you folks would just take a momentt o reflect that these same old same old conversations haven't done a damn thing for us, except hold on by the skin of our teeth now for 25 years... yes since 1981.. because that was the eyar of the first major defeat...

 

[rojoko]

NRA

Greener,

The NRA needs to change and soon... the only letters that should go ot the NRA is this:

You have been doing pretty much the same thing for the past 25 years and these efforts have been marginally effective at best...

What's worse, you do NOT see all the issues involved in this battle and this also needs to change soon. You act like the American Governmnet in that you seem to keep people that are not well qualified for what they are doing, in their jobs when they need to be replaced by people that are effective at what they do (and not Wayne Lapierre).

If the NRA cannot change, then I in good Conscience will no longer renue my membership in the NRA (or join, etc)... until such time as you do make a serious effort to save our 2nd ammendment rights and make serious changes to the way you address these issues.

Yours truly:
etc...


The NRA is the single most important resource that we have, and at the moemnt they're loosing the ability to perform on any level by virtue of the mismanagement at the NRA... go back to Washington and talk to the politicians there... a lot of them no longer take the NRA serious on any level.
I have had these discussions, have you???

 

[buck00]

Most of all, for over tens years of work and thousands upon thousands of dollars out my my pocket, I rarely got a thank you, instead I regularly got death threats because I would not allow discussion of illegal issues. I knew that both the NRA and the ATF were reading the discussion areas. This time, I’d like a return for my work after 30 years of effort, since most people can’t be bothered to even say thanks.

rojoko

Your initial post was interesting and had some good points. The whole idea of dumping LaPierre was very refreshing. You drew me in and I began to feel mildly inspired.

However, the way you concluded your post forfeited all your creditability. You turned off a lot of people with your pompous attitude. You barge onto THR and demand a "thank you" and whine and complain you haven't been given recognition?? Sorry cup cake, respect is earned not given.


Oh and by the way, stop saying "LOOSING"!

The NRA is the single most important resource that we have, and at the moemnt they're loosing the ability to perform

At first I thought it was a typo, but at least four or five times you said "loose" or "loosing." If you dream of leading the 2nd Amendment movement someday, let's clean that up. Thanks. Best of luck.

 

[gcerbone]

rojoko,

The NRA is the single most important resource that we have

And yet you are here advocating that we take it down by "cutting off the money?"

Sorry, that's exactly what the anti's would love for us to do.

The NRA doesn't do everything right, but they are the loudest voice out there for shooters. We aren't well served as shooters by trying to reduce their clout. How about instead of dropping your membership, get 5 friends who feel the same way that you do to join, and work to change the organization? Or join the GOA. Or the SAF. Or start your own organization.

You don't win a war by shooting your friends.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Buck, thanks for having my back with the 'loose'/'lose' usage.

Before everyone jumps on Wayne's buttocks, what exactly is his job?

Is he down on Capitol Hill? That's a rhetorical question, the answer is no. His ILA staff are and the chief lobbyist is Chuck Cunningham. If congress isn't take ILA seriously, we have to look there first, then to Wayne.

Not everyone it "out there" working day in and day out for a lobbying group, some THR's cannot afford that. However, there are a few THRs who actually do have some political street cred and it's not like this post was a revelation to them, and frankly a great deal of THRs.

Once again, it doesn't take NRA-ILA to win. Virginia won Shall-Issue with nary a finger lifted in the Fairfax, VA headquarterd NRA-ILA, ditto Ohio and more than a few other states. Political victory starts with activist constituents, not a powerful lobbying group.

 

[longeyes]

I'll say it again: collapse is, ironically, your friend. When most people really feel the need for effective self-defense they will opt for it. Right now they don't. Odds are that will change. And not that far in the future.

Certainly the mainstream culture of American is either anti-gun or leaning that way. This is what happens when a people become government-dependent, more interested in equality and compassion than liberty and honor, and, at least temporarily, more interested in acquiring things than in building character.

Natural process, all of it. Some would just say it's a move from savagery to civilization but those of us here, having more conservative views of human nature, realize that this is naive and philosophically distorted. The Founding Fathers, arguably the most evolved of men socially, understood clearly the need for aggressive self-defense, especially against tyranny.

Today's tyranny is more subtle and far more seductive. But the good news is that it contains within itself the seeds of its own destruction. The anti-gun zealots will continue to froth and foam but in the end necessity and survival will defeat their disingenuous "idealism."

In the meantime, yes, we can try to change "the culture." I applaud that. We need large and visible and frequent campaigns to educate the public about the need for RKBA. At this moment gun ownership is viewed by many in America as a nasty little secret, not so different from closet drinking or a stash of under-the-table sex toys. Since everything else is "out there" so too should gun ownership and gun education and gun sports be. It's not going to be easy, given that in my view today's liberals--and I know many from my former life--have a deep psychological aversion to the empowerment that comes with the proper knowledge and employment of firearms. I see it in my friends. Too many derisive jokes, a tiny bit of fear; an utter lack of rational conversation about a serious and adult topic. When it comes to firearms we are still back in the pre-Playboy days, folks.

 

[wuluf]

i can't help noticing that many more states are "shall-issue" now than 20 years ago. That is real progress.

 

[longeyes]

Yeah, but the places where you really need it (CCW) it ain't legal.

 

[Car Knocker]

Yeah, but the places where you really need it (CCW) it ain't legal.

Where might those places be?

 

[ssr]

It's not just the NRA, it's ALL OF US. Guns have become a "bad" thing in this society because as rojoko says, that's all people hear. And now, all of us have gone into hiding and gone into "stealth" mode. Check out the threads on stickers on cars and talking to others about guns. Nobody is willing to talk about or promote guns and shooting to anybody because everybody fears being victimized or robbed or something.

We bemoan the days when gun ownership adn responsibility were normal and natural. Just today I saw some old Disney cartoons and they all had shooting or guns or hunting or hunting knives in them. But the only voice the majority hears anymore is the voice of the antis. Very few of us are out there being open gun owners and promoting the virtues of gun ownership. It's no wonder people who know nothing about guns have no clue of what it's really all about. Most of us are hiding our secret guns and hoping that our secret ballots at the voting booth will save us. It WILL NOT. It takes effort from all of us all of the time to be good embassadors and win over new converts by telling them and showing them the truth. If we don't, we will loose. Our numbers will shrink eventually into oblivion.

We have to talk about it with proud, confident voices. Because WE ARE RIGHT! Don't hide and give in to the half truths and (wrong) "political correctness" that is out there.

Some say that will lead to breakins into my car or whatever. Does it increase the chance. Depends on your situation I guess. But to me, doing what I can to fight for the Right is what is most important, for me and for future geneerations and our country.

 

[MountainPeak]

I've noticed several posts noting the erosion of rights in the last 20 years. I bought my first gun 43 years ago, and my background check was the store owner calling my Dad, to ask, if it was ok for him to sell it to me. I was 13. I'm not saying all 13 year olds should be able to walk into stores and buy guns, but it's an example of how things have changed over MANY years. It's been a slow slippery slope for years, and I don't see it improving with the current crop of politicians. The fact is, MOST gun owners do not take the time to promote gun rights issues. It's been this way as long as I remember. Also, the sniping at each other, by members of various gun orgs. isn't helpfull. Join the ones you like. Also, join the ones you don't like, and CHANGE them for the better.

 

[ssr]

The NRA cannot do it alone as an organization. The average nongunowner thinks the NRA is an extreme, irrational organization, no matter who is the spokesperson. The only way that perception can change is if we are all out there putting a real face on the NRA and gun owners. The only way the nongunowners will change their perception is if we are all out there showing them that REAL, NOMAL people are gunowners and 2nd ammendment rights supporters.

WE are the ones that need to step it up and do the promoting. Not the mythical NRA. It's never going to happen if we are all secret about our lives and the thing that we strongly support. People need to see that support in real life.

 

[longeyes]

Where might those places be?

New York, Chicago, D.C., Los Angeles...for starters.

 

[Lew]

I don't ever post, but I've been reading here quite a while and I'd like to step in for a second.

Longeyes, I think more than anyone thusfar, has brought up the real heart of the situation, the problem. ACCOUNTABILITY, the loss of. That's it. All of our woes stem from it. And really, one might arguably step back further and call it the breakdown of the family (no, this is not religious).

Children are not accountable for their actions, parents for their children, adults for themselves, citizens for their country/neighbors...do you see what I'm saying? The individualism of this society has become so cancerous and disfigured, that it's really a country of "ME"s. We are not contributing members of society; we are vacuoles of money and time. We don't want to be accountable. Everything is someone else's fault. We don't want to be responsible.

Please, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, make my life easier! I'm fat. Legislate my food. My kids are failing/out of control. Legislate the schools/how I raise them. My feelings got hurt. Legislate everyone around me. Take care of me in my old age. Make me safe. Make me happy. I don't want to work. I don't want to ever be sad. I just want to sit in my living room and watch TV and NOT WORRY. Fastforward to the endgame. We're living in a "utopia." aka a police state. The government is thinking for us so we don't have to (which is good, too, because, if you didn't know, America is dumbing down. A scientific lack of intelligence.) Guns are gone, along with art, literature, free speech, alcohol, cigarettes, bright colors, whatever. It's Fahrenheit 451. It's Childhood's End. It's Equilibrium. It's, oh hell, V for Vendetta if you like. Makes me sound a little crazy, doesn't it? Well, it's all part of the natural progression and we're too ****ing lazy to stop it now....or are we?

America is at a severe disadvantage in some ways. We have no unity. We're not even Americans. We're African-Americans, Irish-Americans, Chinese-Americans, we're hyphenated and utterly not-giving-a-**** about anyone else because, hey, what about me?

But we've got an advantage. The tattered rags of a once-proud flag and some old documents that used to really MEAN something. We've got a leg to stand on in the constitution, but gentlemen, she's a tired ol' girl and she's been through hell. It's now or never, because she'll dead without our help. Want to see the future? Look at England, Australia...or better yet, Chicago or New York. Where if the burglars don't kill you, the State will. It's just a matter of timing.

Do we have the courage to wage this war? Do we have the resources and the cunning? Maybe. Just maybe. But the clock started ticking towards doom a long time ago.

*slips back into obscurity*

 

[Caimlas]

I agree with you that something needs to be done about the NRA. They've demonstrated over the last past 8 years in particular that they're little more than a Republican party funding front, paying token lip service to 'sportsmen' - and it makes me sick.

 

[loki.fish]

Well I'm not a member of the NRA. Flame all you want, but I refuse to join them until they do something that screams, "WE'RE FOR THE 2ND AMENDMENT". I do what I can to follow up on how the NRA is doing from the gun forums. Most people will post the important information. Maybe 2 minutes ago I contacted the NRA through their website and sent them a very long letter on why I will not join them and why I will tell gun owners not to join them. Explaining that over the years all they've become is just a lesser evil to the government. Some things I may have been a little off on, but I just hope they're intelligent enough to get the point.

 

[rojoko]

Prosperity

An addendum,

SInce the mini resession of the 90's.. the economy had not been great for some people. and they're selling firearms to get the extra income... no more or less. I've stood in one of the few remaining "gun" stores in LA and watched people selling firearms.. and I've asked (I've known the owners for 30+ years).. "want the money", not shooting anymore.... etc etc etc mainly because everyone is working they're rear ends off to make ends meet... especially the older folks who can't get hired anymore in some fields.

 

[rojoko]

Lew


DO you ever bother to read the actually thread before jumping in??

The thread here is "wake up" and discusses the realities of the fact that America will loose the 2nd ammendment.. no real doubt in any intellegent individuals, especially those that have been involved in the fight to save the 2nd for the past 20-30 years...

We're loosing.. the shooting community can't be bothered.. even to vote.. they. Hey, I'd suprised sometimes to see some of them online posting! I mean that takes an effort! Does anyone pay attention to election results and turn out?

Does anyone bother to write their republican reps??
Does anyone bother to write the NRA to tell them what they think of them?
Has anyone actually had an original idea when it comes to saving the 2nd? Few if any...

However about joining the discussionin progress instead of trying to take it off in another direction... and that comes from someone so completely disgusted with the shooting community he couldn't come back to this site for over 10 days... because it's always the same old same old and WE"RE GOING TO LOOSE!!!!

Damn this croed, because America without the 2nd will also loose the 1st.. and that will be the end of America...

 

[rojoko]

The NRA

Loki,

Youve got to be kidding about the NRA being intellegent... the only time they've shown ANY signs of intellegence is when they stole someone else's idea of getting Heston as the front man and getting RID of Wayne (the idiot) LaPierre out of the public lime light... (the idea was mine)...

The NRA is just the same as the Gov't.. it's big, clumsey, and inbred.. almost without original thought.... it's so stuck on itself that no one is willing to be bothered when it comes to change.. or even possibly trying something more effective...

But, it's the ONLY source of resources that is seriously needed to head off the battle which includes reconditioning American that guns ARE NOT BAD!!

We're in deep kimchi.. and it all likelyhood, we've already lost... it's simply a matter of time.

 

[Art Eatman]

Two ways to make a difference: Get rich, buy news media outlets and editorialize your message. Or, work your way up to high elected office, getting rich in the process, and persuade many others to share your views and send your message.

Or spend time and money at the lower echelons.

But coming to an RKBA board with folks who've been working their tails off, some for as many as forty years, and foaming abut "Here's the word from On High" just doesn't cut it.

Don't insult this group.

And with that, this insult-series is done.

Art