walking/ shipping question

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JonathanE

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I live in state D, where I am allowed to carry a concealed handgun.
I am going to hike from State A to State D.
I may legally carry a handgun in States A, C, and D but not in B.
May I carry a handgun throughout State A and ship it from an FFL in State A to an FFL in state C, and then receive it in State C?
I am not a resident of State C.
As always, apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.
Jonathan
 
Ha!
Just theoretical at this point. (AT is on the bucket list; I dream of taking the kids when they're a bit older.) Just wondering at this point if this gun "leapfrog" is permitted on interstate hikes.
Does the actual state matter to my question? Do different states have different rules on who can receive at an FFL?
If I can receive a handgun at an FFL in a state in which I do not reside, I will plan further, and actual state names will be forthcoming!
 
Thanks, Sam, and thanks for the link.
If I read the sticky correctly, I should be able to ship to myself, via FedEx, care of a general store (willing to receive and hold packages) in the destination state.
 
There's a practical, although not necessarily legal, problem with shipping a handgun to oneself.

Ann individual may not legally ship a handgun using the U. S. Mail. He must use a common carrier. AFAIK only UPS and FedEx will transport firearms. Under their current shipping policies they will not carry a firearm shipped by a non-licensee if it is going to anyone other than an FFL.
 
Would it be possible to ship to ones self c/o a FFL where the FFL doesn't open the package and have to log the gun into his book?

Just looking for a way around the UPS/FedEx "rules".

Of course finding a FFL willing to be used as a mail-drop might be difficult. (If even legal...)
 
deadin said:
Would it be possible to ship to ones self c/o a FFL where the FFL doesn't open the package and have to log the gun into his book?

Just looking for a way around the UPS/FedEx "rules".

Of course finding a FFL willing to be used as a mail-drop might be difficult. (If even legal...)
Click to expand...
Nope.

If the ATF comes calling while that package is sitting there they will open it and then hammer the dealer over paperwork violations.
 
This is an area I wish there was a greater focus on but at this point there doesn't seem to be enough of us who would wish to have a handgun waiting for us on the other side of an anti gun state or nation.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Frank,
Thanks for presenting that issue; it is a pickle.
UPS website says it will ship from a dealer to an individual, but as Sam already mentioned, an FFL will not transfer to me if I am not a resident of his/ her state. I can only assume that UPS offers this service for intra-state shipments only?
I googled briefly for "other" common carriers who may transport, but came up empty.
Looks like a dead-end from here... if anyone has another option I'd love to hear it.
Thanks all for your inputs.
Jonathan
 
While walking through state B, perhaps you could transport your unloaded handgun in a legal (for state B) case placed inside your backpack. You could even lock the case and physically separate all ammunition. I live in Illinois, and that would be a legal way to transport the handgun by a legal owner even in this state, as far as I know. You could even shoot up all your ammo in state A, carry the cased (and locked?) handgun with no ammo of any kind on your person through state B, then un-case and resupply ammunition once you cross into state C.

I suspect the specific states and their firearm laws would ultimately determine how you would have to do it. As already mentioned, an FFL cannot transfer a handgun to you unless you are a resident of that state.
 
il.bill said:
While walking through state B, perhaps you could transport your unloaded handgun in a legal (for state B) case placed inside your backpack.....
Click to expand...
It depends on what State B is. For example, if State B is New York it's illegal to have a handgun in your possession, even if locked up and unloaded, without a New York handgun license.
 
His problem, walking the Appalachian Trail (AT) the whole length, from Springer Mountain Georgia to Mount Kahtahdin, Maine, is the point when the AT crosses Maryland, then after Pennsylvania, nicking the northwest corner of New Jersey ,into New York ,cutting a slice of Connecticut, then across Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and finally Maine. Without a firearm for a good length of its more than 2,000 miles.

Unlike the Continental Divide Trail from New Mexico to Montana, which is gun friendly all the way, the AT poses severe challenges through much of its 14 state route. See the states in bold.

I researched it thoroughly back in 1995 when I had the dream of walking it solo. But the time factor of about 5 to 6 months, beginning in April and ending before mid October, was too much for me time wise back in those days.

And it is impossible legally to walk the entire stretch with a firearm. The AT HQ at Harper's Ferry, West Virginia, is certainly not a gun friendly crew, practically begging people not to carry a gun on the AT. At least it was that way 20 years ago.

So, I finally give it up and the dreamed died. Hopefully, Jonathan can make it come true for himself and his children at some future point. I am certainly rooting for him to do it.

app-trail-map.jpg
 
Without knowing what state “B” is, it’s a little challenging, but…. Can you transport in state “B” unloaded in a locked container? Or can you get a short term rental at a retail mail box store in state “C” and break the gun into two parts and mail two separate packages to yourself at the mail box address in state “C”? I’m don’t know if a bare serial numbered frame would constitute a firearm.

If your trek is the Appalachian Trail (AT), based on Red Wings post, for-git-it.
 
Twiki357 said:
... Or can you get a short term rental at a retail mail box store in state “C” and break the gun into two parts and mail two separate packages to yourself at the mail box address in state “C”? I’m don’t know if a bare serial numbered frame would constitute a firearm.

...
Click to expand...

The serial numbered frame IS the firearm according to federal law.
 
(parenthetical remark)

I am disgusted that there has to be all this fuss about carrying a simple cotton-pickin' firearm from hither to yon.

:barf:

(close parenthetical remark)

stopjack.gif

Terry
 
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If walking the Appalachian Trail, arguably you are on an interstate trip under 18 USC 926A which overrides inconsistent state law if the firearm is legal at your origin and destination locations. However that law only pre-empts state law. Federal gun laws in any federal area in NY and NJ such as a national park (which mirror state law but are federal laws not pre-empted by 926A and not not state laws) might not be pre-empted. The interpretation of 926A was also severely botched in the 3rd Circuit which includes NJ in the case against the Port Authority so in NJ you might have no protection at all. NY courts would probably go along with that botched ruling if you got arrested.

If you really wanted to do this you could pre-visit a FFL in the state on the other side of NY and leave a handgun with that FFL for cleaning or gunsmithing work. Then when you hike over the border later you can pick it up. FFL can receive and return a gun for service at his place of business even for people outside their home state. No 4473 and not a transfer. Picking up a gun that already belongs to you. Likewise before crossing into NJ you could visit a PA FFL and have your carry piece shipped back to a dealer in your home state.

Or, sling a Win 94 over your shoulder and it becomes easier. Apply for and get a NJ firearms card for the NJ leg of the hike. NJ State Police issues those to non residents. It is essentially a carry permit for unloaded long arms. A takedown rifle would fit in your backpack and be discreet enough so as to not upset any NJ commies you encounter on trail and so it is not an issue when you go to a store among the NY locals. NY law does not bar long arms that are not assault weapons and centerfire tube mags do not take more than 10 rounds. Make sure there are no hunting regs that interfere during the specific dates or buy hunting licenses from NJ and NY to cover yourself for the anticipated dates. Those can be purchased online.

Read the laws very carefully and you can find a way sometimes.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
"I am disgusted that there has to be all this fuss about carrying a simple cotton-pickin' firearm from hither to yon."

Could be worse Terry.

At least states are still allowed to set the criteria in most cases.

That's why I cringe when people post about having a "national" concealed weapons permit"
 
" I’m don’t know if a bare serial numbered frame would constitute a firearm."

Alas, it does. There are parts, and firearms, and the frame is a firearm.
 
If walking the Appalachian Trail, arguably you are on an interstate trip under 18 USC 926A which overrides inconsistent state law if the firearm is legal at your origin and destination locations.
Click to expand...
A recent decision in the Third Circuit (Revell v.Port Authority) concluded that 926A (FOPA) only applies when transporting in a vehicle. They concluded that one is NOT afforded FOPA protection when walking from a parked car to an airport terminal, for example.

Link to decision

Excerpt:
Section 926A does not apply to Revell because his
firearm and ammunition were readily accessible to him during
his stay in New Jersey. That conclusion is fatal to his § 926A
claim and the associated Fourth Amendment claim.
Click to expand...
 
The workaround is supposed to be that you ship as anonymous-appearing a package as possible to yourself, in the "c/o" of the FFL. If anything in the FFL's name screams "gun", you shorten or abbreviate it. I'd maybe even use a FFL that has another business, such as a pawn shop ("Mountain Gun and Pawn" becomes simply "Mountain Pawn.") This is required by the shipping carriers, too. Nothing on the package should imply there is a firearm within.

Arrange beforehand with the dealer and request the package not be opened by anyone other than you, and that it be placed where it appears to be more related with his "non-gun" business than otherwise. Agree to pay any nominal fee he may charge for this; it should be way less than a typical transfer fee.

I hardly think the ATF is in the habit of entering FFL businesses and opening packages that appear to be unrelated to firearms or the firearms aspect of the business when there is another aspect of the business. If the FFL is under such a level of scrutiny or investigation that it has come to that, such as a search warrant, having failed to log your gun will be among the least of his problems.

For myself, I just don't see ever needing to do this. If it's too far to drive, I fly. I'm certainly not gonna walk. :D
 
I'm loving this conversation.
Thank you all very much for responses.
Thank you, too, Red Wind for your encouragement. I live in one of the states you didn't put in bold, and love hiking VT, NH, ME, but dream of a family through trip northbound. The NJ, NY, MA bits are discouraging.
Arizona, hmm? Not the climate or terrain I'm accustomed to hiking, but I'll start giving it some thought!
 
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