W.E.G.
Member
I think that is a sweet deal that the manufacturer is replacing your blown-up USED GUN with a new gun.
Chill out, and wait for them to send you your NEW GUN.
Chill out, and wait for them to send you your NEW GUN.
Walther P99 frame crack
- Thread starter Dudemeister
- Start date
- Status
I know it is a pain to be without your pistol for so long but I believe you should grin & bear it as you are getting a new firearm out of the deal. If you bought a used vehicle that was out of warranty & found a manufacturing problem with it I can't think of an automaker that would give you a new car in exchange. Every once in a while I read a bad report but for the most part the firearms industry in this country really does give good service.
OP
OP
Dudemeister
Member
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea that I'm getting a new gun,and I'm grateful that they are indeed taking care of it, but 5 months is a long wait.
W.E.G.
Member
Long wait.
Right.
Sounds like a good reason to buy another gun to keep you company while you wait.
Right.
Sounds like a good reason to buy another gun to keep you company while you wait.
SharpsDressedMan
member
W.E.G., I like the way you think!
One possibility for those 21... A few years ago, I dropped a brand new P99 and damaged the frame near the front rail. It was my fav and most accurate gun at the time, and just irritated me to no end... I called S&W and asked about buying a new frame. I was told that they could not provide me with a frame, but they WOULD sell me a P99 at a discount if I sent in my damaged one (which still worked).
I was told it would be $500, however - AND I'd have to send them my damaged gun. I decided to just sell my damaged P99 to someone to be used as a beater gun, and then take that money and just buy a new P99. That was a better deal financially than sending them in my gun AND paying $500...
If they are hard pressed for P99s in between shipments... I could have been 1 of the guys on that list... So, a reasonable explanation with no conspiracy added...
SwampWolf
Member
I have to agree with this assessment. I only wish car manufacturers and toaster makers would be as fair.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Hmmmm. 21 guns mentioned/known/documented at this moment in time. These guns have been around now 13-14 years at the longest. Most police departments do not keep weapons that long, changing them out for newer models, rather than maintaining guns for long periods of time. I, too, have purchased and shoot a 1st Gen P99, and mine was shot very little, as far as I could tell. I could see how a used gun, with unknown rounds fired, over a 5-10 year period, could start to get weary. Thrown in some kind of ammunition failure or "kaboom", and any gun, whether it be steel frame, aluminum alloy, or plastic, might have a crack result. High number? Depends on the number produced, the collective wear and tear, and what other factors induced the faulure or cracks. Many, many factors. If there are 50-100 thousand guns in use for an average of 7 years, and even 100 guns develope cracks, is that a lot?
SharpsDressedMan
member
21 seems like a lot, except for the fact that Walther service seems to let them stack up, and then does not have replacement guns sitting there waiting to be shipped out, SO....they have to process the the paperwork, maybe even notify BATF, and get guns shipped from Germany (?), etc. These 21, how long did it take to "accumulate" that number? We are not going to know. Now if broken guns are starting to come in at 21 a day, or 21 a week, etc, then I might start being concerned. 21 over a couple months, at a time in the lifeline of P99 production and use where guns START to break down, well, that may be a reasonably expected number.
SharpsDressedMan
member
I might even concede that unless Glock or a similar polymer frame gun sees the same number of guns come back for normal wear and tear stress frame cracks, then the type of plastic, and/or the weapon design might cause Walther P99's to crack more frequently. But who would ever have a database to confirm or deny this? I don't think we'll ever know.
fastbolt
Member
I'd be pleased that S&W was able to get Walther to agree to replace the gun at no cost. Be patient.
I've known of 2 SW99's and a P99 which experienced some ammunition-related problems.
1 SW999 (9mm) had a case head failure/blowout which not only cracked the frame but blew out the right side above the shooter's hand. They examined the gun and replaced the frame under warranty (the slide & barrel weren't found to be damaged).
A LE SW9940 experienced what was determined to be a squib load which was unnoticed by the shooter during training. An obstructed bore resulted in an unnoticed crack in the frame. The crack was eventually discovered because the frame flexed under recoil and kept pinching the shooter's hand. S&W replaced the frame under warranty.
A P99 (forget the caliber) experienced a squib load and a "ringed" barrel. No damage to the frame or slide. S&W replaced the barrel.
Another P99 (9MM?) owner had his slide break off at a corner of the rear dovetail (the rear of the slide separating from the rest of the slide, as it was described to me). The gun had reportedly been fired for several thousand rounds over the course of several years. Walther declined replacing the slide due to the gun being out of warranty and apparently did not consider the slide to be defective. S&W offered the owner a new P99 titanium nitride treated slide they had on hand (for whatever reason) in the repair center at no charge and the owner agreed. He was pleased with S&W's response and good will gesture last I heard from him.
Now, the guy who had his SW999 frame damaged by the casehead blowout? He told me he's since fired approx 55K+ rounds through the gun since then. He has a SW9940 through which he's also fired more than 55K rounds. I had to replace a sear housing block because of a broken ejector in the gun at over 50K rounds ... and since it was a SW99, S&W covered the replacement block and sent it to me (as an armorer) under their lifetime warranty, even though it was a Walther part (and has a retail cost of about $100, BTW). Last I heard he's still firing a LOT of rounds through his SW99's ... and I just keep him recoil spring assemblies, mag springs and I recently replaced his striker springs.
Back before the M&P pistol series was released, and the SW99/990L's were still being produced and sold, I was told that S&W kept a SW9940 at their training academy which was used for testing & as an in-house loaner. I was told at that time that it had been logged as having fired more than 75K rounds, and since it was essentially kept as a test gun it had received no cleaning or other maintenance in all the time it had been in use. Yes, that's intentionally abusive, but the fellow who told me about it said they were interested in seeing how it withstood the extended shooting under lack of proper maintenance/abuse. As an armorer I'd not subject a gun to those conditions ... and especially not one dedicated to defensive use.
Now, I've fired several thousands of rounds spread among a number of SW9940's, since I carried an issued one for a few years, helped maintain over 50 others during that time and own one of my own. I've had to replace a few of the Walther parts, some of which seemed to be caused by user abuse and damage. I did have to replace a couple or three sear housing blocks for broken ejectors.
I've fired more than 10,000 rounds through a personally-owned SW999c. It had an occasional light strike issue on the DA trigger stroke when new, but after consulting with a tech at Walther America who said he had occasionally seen it happen in the P99 line, I was able to correct the problem. That was several thousand rounds ago and the problem has never reoccurred. BTW, I really like my SW999c.
I think the 99 series is a fine design which never really received the attention it deserved. I've always wondered why Walther never seemed to demonstrate much interest in really promoting & advertising the line in this country, although I've been told they've focused a lot of attention on promoting the 99 series to LE/Gov outside this country.
I did learn of a revision to the Walther frames at one point when I found a replacement sear block wouldn't fit in an older SW99 frame unless I switched a housing pin from the old block to the new one. The housing blocks appeared different in dimension, too. When I called and asked S&W about the difference between the blocks they confirmed I could replace the bottom pin to make the new housing fit in the old-style 99 frame, but they said they couldn't tell me why Walther had made the change in the frame. FWIW, the sear housing block is located to the rear of the magazine well, unlike where the crack is displayed in the OP's 99 frame. It might be fair to remember that firearm manufacturers are often making revisions to things for reasons which make sense to them.
Sorry to hear you're having to wait quite a while, but enjoy the new P99 when it finally arrives. Fine pistol in my humble opinion.
I've known of 2 SW99's and a P99 which experienced some ammunition-related problems.
1 SW999 (9mm) had a case head failure/blowout which not only cracked the frame but blew out the right side above the shooter's hand. They examined the gun and replaced the frame under warranty (the slide & barrel weren't found to be damaged).
A LE SW9940 experienced what was determined to be a squib load which was unnoticed by the shooter during training. An obstructed bore resulted in an unnoticed crack in the frame. The crack was eventually discovered because the frame flexed under recoil and kept pinching the shooter's hand. S&W replaced the frame under warranty.
A P99 (forget the caliber) experienced a squib load and a "ringed" barrel. No damage to the frame or slide. S&W replaced the barrel.
Another P99 (9MM?) owner had his slide break off at a corner of the rear dovetail (the rear of the slide separating from the rest of the slide, as it was described to me). The gun had reportedly been fired for several thousand rounds over the course of several years. Walther declined replacing the slide due to the gun being out of warranty and apparently did not consider the slide to be defective. S&W offered the owner a new P99 titanium nitride treated slide they had on hand (for whatever reason) in the repair center at no charge and the owner agreed. He was pleased with S&W's response and good will gesture last I heard from him.
Now, the guy who had his SW999 frame damaged by the casehead blowout? He told me he's since fired approx 55K+ rounds through the gun since then. He has a SW9940 through which he's also fired more than 55K rounds. I had to replace a sear housing block because of a broken ejector in the gun at over 50K rounds ... and since it was a SW99, S&W covered the replacement block and sent it to me (as an armorer) under their lifetime warranty, even though it was a Walther part (and has a retail cost of about $100, BTW). Last I heard he's still firing a LOT of rounds through his SW99's ... and I just keep him recoil spring assemblies, mag springs and I recently replaced his striker springs.
Back before the M&P pistol series was released, and the SW99/990L's were still being produced and sold, I was told that S&W kept a SW9940 at their training academy which was used for testing & as an in-house loaner. I was told at that time that it had been logged as having fired more than 75K rounds, and since it was essentially kept as a test gun it had received no cleaning or other maintenance in all the time it had been in use. Yes, that's intentionally abusive, but the fellow who told me about it said they were interested in seeing how it withstood the extended shooting under lack of proper maintenance/abuse. As an armorer I'd not subject a gun to those conditions ... and especially not one dedicated to defensive use.
Now, I've fired several thousands of rounds spread among a number of SW9940's, since I carried an issued one for a few years, helped maintain over 50 others during that time and own one of my own. I've had to replace a few of the Walther parts, some of which seemed to be caused by user abuse and damage. I did have to replace a couple or three sear housing blocks for broken ejectors.
I've fired more than 10,000 rounds through a personally-owned SW999c. It had an occasional light strike issue on the DA trigger stroke when new, but after consulting with a tech at Walther America who said he had occasionally seen it happen in the P99 line, I was able to correct the problem. That was several thousand rounds ago and the problem has never reoccurred. BTW, I really like my SW999c.
I think the 99 series is a fine design which never really received the attention it deserved. I've always wondered why Walther never seemed to demonstrate much interest in really promoting & advertising the line in this country, although I've been told they've focused a lot of attention on promoting the 99 series to LE/Gov outside this country.
I did learn of a revision to the Walther frames at one point when I found a replacement sear block wouldn't fit in an older SW99 frame unless I switched a housing pin from the old block to the new one. The housing blocks appeared different in dimension, too. When I called and asked S&W about the difference between the blocks they confirmed I could replace the bottom pin to make the new housing fit in the old-style 99 frame, but they said they couldn't tell me why Walther had made the change in the frame. FWIW, the sear housing block is located to the rear of the magazine well, unlike where the crack is displayed in the OP's 99 frame. It might be fair to remember that firearm manufacturers are often making revisions to things for reasons which make sense to them.
Sorry to hear you're having to wait quite a while, but enjoy the new P99 when it finally arrives. Fine pistol in my humble opinion.
OP
OP
Dudemeister
Member
I'd like to remind everyone that, when I called them directly, S&W did not want to do anything for me, other than offer me a discount toward another gun.
It was my local gunshop owner/dealer that got them to replace the gun. Obviously I, as an end user, don't have any clout with their company, but a gun dealer, who buys perhaps 10ths of thousands of dollars from them anually, does.
So before everyone gives S&W or Carl Walther props about what great companies they are to deal with and how they're replacing this out of warranty gun out of the goodness of their heart, it my pay to look at it from this other perspective, one of keeping a good business relationship with a valued dealer, rather than a single customer.
I am pretty sure that nothing I could have said or done on my own would have gotten the same results that the dealer did.
It was my local gunshop owner/dealer that got them to replace the gun. Obviously I, as an end user, don't have any clout with their company, but a gun dealer, who buys perhaps 10ths of thousands of dollars from them anually, does.
So before everyone gives S&W or Carl Walther props about what great companies they are to deal with and how they're replacing this out of warranty gun out of the goodness of their heart, it my pay to look at it from this other perspective, one of keeping a good business relationship with a valued dealer, rather than a single customer.
I am pretty sure that nothing I could have said or done on my own would have gotten the same results that the dealer did.
fastbolt
Member
It also depends with whom your dealer spoke, too.
I've talked a fair number of ordinary customers who received exactly what they needed the first time, and some who needed to speak to more than one person about their problem before their problem was resolved to their satisfaction. (Then again, there's always going to be that small percentage of folks who have somewhat unrealistic expectations in the first place.)
Unfortunately, there are a lot of folks who answer the customer service phones at S&W. A lot.
I gave a name to the fellow with the broken slide on the P99 that was long out of warranty and the company provided him with that new, but left over, slide for his pistol at no charge. That was the S&W part of the company, too, not the Walther America part of the business.
Considering it was a used P99, and the Walther model, at that (and not a SW99 that had a lifetime warranty on the whole pistol for the original owner), I'd count your blessings and be patient.
I've talked a fair number of ordinary customers who received exactly what they needed the first time, and some who needed to speak to more than one person about their problem before their problem was resolved to their satisfaction. (Then again, there's always going to be that small percentage of folks who have somewhat unrealistic expectations in the first place.)
Unfortunately, there are a lot of folks who answer the customer service phones at S&W. A lot.
I gave a name to the fellow with the broken slide on the P99 that was long out of warranty and the company provided him with that new, but left over, slide for his pistol at no charge. That was the S&W part of the company, too, not the Walther America part of the business.
Considering it was a used P99, and the Walther model, at that (and not a SW99 that had a lifetime warranty on the whole pistol for the original owner), I'd count your blessings and be patient.
OP
OP
Dudemeister
Member
Finally !!!!!
Finally !
After 4 months and 2 days, I picked up my P99 replacement from the shop. California being the paranoid state that it is, made me do a whole new DROS/DOJ, AND pay another $25 filing fee, AND wait the 10 days. But hey, I got my gun today.
To be frank, I'm not a big fan of the new and improved trigger guard and elongated slide ejectors, I really liked the original design better, BUT I am very happy to have a brand new pistol.
I can't wait to take it to the range next weekend and put a few of boxes of ammo through it.
Finally !
After 4 months and 2 days, I picked up my P99 replacement from the shop. California being the paranoid state that it is, made me do a whole new DROS/DOJ, AND pay another $25 filing fee, AND wait the 10 days. But hey, I got my gun today.
To be frank, I'm not a big fan of the new and improved trigger guard and elongated slide ejectors, I really liked the original design better, BUT I am very happy to have a brand new pistol.
I can't wait to take it to the range next weekend and put a few of boxes of ammo through it.
OP
OP
Dudemeister
Member
Not in California. If it's got a new serial number, it's treated like a new transfer/sale.
If it's a repair that does not change the receiver serial number in anyway, then it can be sent back directly to the user.
OP
OP
Dudemeister
Member
Nah, I'll keep it, and learn to love it, like an ugly step child...
...then I'll take it out back and shoot it... I mean shoot the hell out of it.
click thumbnails to enlarge
...then I'll take it out back and shoot it... I mean shoot the hell out of it.
click thumbnails to enlarge
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked