jondwright
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I agree Steve, that's why I'm not going to break the bank. It's gotta be a decent shot too.
Want to collect *and* shoot WW2 Rifles
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cracked butt
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About the cheapest way to buy a rifle that probably saw service in WWII is a 91/30 Mosin Nagant. More were made at Ishevsk in 1942 than any other year, I wonder why? 
Big Man
Member
I agree with about everything thats been suggested here. Good advice. The only thing I will add is...before you invest in a Carcano...look at the prices for ammo. I have friends that have them...the ammo is expensive. Also the ammo for the Swiss isnt cheap either. The best I've found is $22 for 60 rounds. Unless you roll your own...it is something to consider.
I also recommend Military Gun Supply in DFW texas. I have bought 2 rifles from them. The weapons were fantastic and the prices couldnt be beat.
There is also a pretty good For Sale board at Surplusrifle.com. The guys over there seem to be pretty trustworthy. I always watch their sale board.
I also recommend Military Gun Supply in DFW texas. I have bought 2 rifles from them. The weapons were fantastic and the prices couldnt be beat.
There is also a pretty good For Sale board at Surplusrifle.com. The guys over there seem to be pretty trustworthy. I always watch their sale board.
JonDWright,
I highly reccomend a U.S. Service Grade CMP M-1 over a Rack Grade M-1. The bottom of the barrel Service Grades will be in better shape then the nicest Rack Grades. If you want a shooter, you'll be much better off with the better barrel on the Service Grade. The only good reason to get a Rack Grade is if you are going to rebarrel it in .308 or put a new barrel on it to make a match rifle. They are very cost effective for that. Other than that, the U.S. Service Grade is a much better "bang for the buck."
Trust me, you'll forget about the small amount of money you saved on a Rack Grade in a year as you get frustrated with the rifle's accuracy. You'll be much happier with a Service Grade as a shooter and representive piece.
I highly reccomend a U.S. Service Grade CMP M-1 over a Rack Grade M-1. The bottom of the barrel Service Grades will be in better shape then the nicest Rack Grades. If you want a shooter, you'll be much better off with the better barrel on the Service Grade. The only good reason to get a Rack Grade is if you are going to rebarrel it in .308 or put a new barrel on it to make a match rifle. They are very cost effective for that. Other than that, the U.S. Service Grade is a much better "bang for the buck."
Trust me, you'll forget about the small amount of money you saved on a Rack Grade in a year as you get frustrated with the rifle's accuracy. You'll be much happier with a Service Grade as a shooter and representive piece.
jobu07
Contributing Member
Oh, we forgot about the Johnson. I forget it's nomenclature. But it was like a 1940's adoption, used by the marine corp or something to that avail. Clip feeds from the side reminiscent of a sten. Neat looking gun, heavy too. I know a guy who had one blow up in his face when the quick detach barrel detached while firing... Interesting rifle. Although I don't think they saw much service.
jondwright
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Terbor, does this hold true if I actually go to the CMP? I was thinking that while I wouldn't want to take my chances with a mail order, couldn't a cherry pick a decent one? I really just want to have one, and I'm not even a great shooter so will a bad rifle make me even worse, (=
I just recently (Feb 5th) picked up my first Garand. I went to the North Store as it's about a hour from my house. I had every intention of getting a rack grade. I ended up getting a Service Grade and don't regret it one bit. If your in the market for a nice gun and nice shooter that's the route to take. Also the folks at the CMP were super nice. I explained to the guys that it's my first Garand and that I wanted a good shooter. I didn't have a preference for manufacturer (I think most are Springfield now anyways, at least at the North Store when I was there). The guys went through most of the rifles on the racks and finally picked the one with the best muzzle and throat erosion readings, the one I got had a reading of 1 and ~1.5 respectively. The wood was in great shape, unlike the majority of the rack grade rifles I saw.
I had a chance to shoot it about 2 weeks ago, what a fun gun!!! I was getting about 3-4" eight shot groups at 100 yards. I'm sure it'll shoot better though once I get familar with the peep style sights and "learn" the gun a little more. IMO the CMP is the only way to go for a Garand.
Make sure you have your paperwork requirements in order BEFORE you show up at the North Store though. You can sign up for the Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association at the CMP which is an "affliated club" if you need to. ($21.00/year)
BTW - Here's my Service Grade, 6 digit Springfield (Oct 1942) after I cleaned it up.
jondwright
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That is a gorgeous rifle secluded. The ones I was messing around with Saturday must have been rack grades...
How much did you spend? 500-550?
How much did you spend? 500-550?
jondwright
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You sure did some good to it, but it doesn't look bad in that picture either. The guys I was with had put a lot of time in their too, and it didn't look that good. Like I'm saying, probably rack grades. It looks like I'm going to have to hold off because I only have $300 or so to spend. I don't want to regret the purchase...
I thought it looked pretty good the day I got it as well. But seeing as how I can never seem to leave any of my guns be I decided to clean up the stock
I didn't do anything to the metal work but the stock showed some decent grain patterns under the dirt and oils that were on it. It is a replacement stock (not stamped with anything other than the "P" on it) I figured I wasn't modifying anything of historic significance.
I didn't do anything to the metal work but the stock showed some decent grain patterns under the dirt and oils that were on it. It is a replacement stock (not stamped with anything other than the "P" on it) I figured I wasn't modifying anything of historic significance.
Yes, the difference between a Service Grade and a Rack Grade makes a difference. Take a look at the CMP descriptions and specifications for the Rack Grade and Service Grade rifles. The nicest Rack Grade rifles still won't have as good of a barrel (as measured by TE) or muzzle as the worst Service Grade. And, if you cherry pick at the store itself, you can usually find some really nice Service Grades that will blow away the Rack Grades.
The fact that you aren't a very good shooter means you want the best rifle, within reason, you can get. A poor shooter with a poor rifle might not be able to stay on the paper when you combine the shooter error with the error induced by the rifle. With a better rifle, you have less error introduced by the rifle and only have to overcome your own shortcomings. And, when your skills improve, you'll want a better rifle.
It's your money. Do what you think best.
The Brits/Canadians/Aussies used the SMLE (No.1 MKIII) right alongside the No.4 Mk1, some preferred it. The Aussies used the SMLE exclusively through both World Wars and kept making them till at least 1945. So an SMLE would be fine for your WW2 collection if you couldn't find a No.4.
The M1 carbine was the most-produced US weapon and armed half the Army, just not as many of the infantry as it was a support weapon. So.......basic collection would look like this:
US: M1 Garand, M1 carbine eventually (Kahr/Auto Ordnance makes new ones now)
Britain: No.4 Mk1 or No.1 MkIII/SMLE
Germany: Mauser 98k, a Yugo M48 is essentially the same thing.
Italy: Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 or 7.7 carbine.
Japan: Arisaka Type 38 (6.5mm) or Type 99 (7.7mm) however finding one not sporterized can be hard.....my brother has a bring-back 99 from the Korean War that was sporterized by the capturer (P-51 pilot that mowed down an infantry column, then landed and picked up souvenirs right on the road before taking off early in the war).
The M1 carbine was the most-produced US weapon and armed half the Army, just not as many of the infantry as it was a support weapon. So.......basic collection would look like this:
US: M1 Garand, M1 carbine eventually (Kahr/Auto Ordnance makes new ones now)
Britain: No.4 Mk1 or No.1 MkIII/SMLE
Germany: Mauser 98k, a Yugo M48 is essentially the same thing.
Italy: Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 or 7.7 carbine.
Japan: Arisaka Type 38 (6.5mm) or Type 99 (7.7mm) however finding one not sporterized can be hard.....my brother has a bring-back 99 from the Korean War that was sporterized by the capturer (P-51 pilot that mowed down an infantry column, then landed and picked up souvenirs right on the road before taking off early in the war).
jondwright
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Thanks Trebor, you answered the question I may not have done a good job of asking. A good rifle will make me a slightly better shooter...as opposed to the rifle not mattering if you aren't a good shooter. I'm gonna hold off..l hear there is a 4 year supply, so I don't suppose the rifle I get in 3 months will be any different than the one I could get next week.
ReadyontheRight
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www.odcmp.com
www.aimsurplus.com
www.battlerifles.com
Enjoy! Great collection idea!
Get thee to CMP ASAP! Check out the $300 greek Garands, but be ready to spend $500 on a Service Grade - it's probably a better deal unless you get lucky.
www.aimsurplus.com
www.battlerifles.com
Enjoy! Great collection idea!
Get thee to CMP ASAP! Check out the $300 greek Garands, but be ready to spend $500 on a Service Grade - it's probably a better deal unless you get lucky.
jefnvk
Member
I'm gonna disagree. Dig through them all. I found a rack with a MW of 1.5 and a TE of 3. I found a service with a MW well over what would gauge on their gauges. The grading seemed more of a reccomendation to me than a hard set rule. I saved $100 by digging through.
Also, as guns are bought, they bring out new ones. It pays to stay a while. Or, if you are looking for a specific one, ask, and if they have the time, they'll go look in the back.
EDIT: CMP North Store lists their Greeks as sold out http://www.odcmp.com/Store.htm
Sunray
Member
Canadians did not use the No. 1 Mk III in combat during W.W. II. No.4 Mk I's and Mk I*'s. The Zombies carried No.1's though. Our guys used No. 4's until 1957 when the C1's were issued. The Aussies, however, did not switch to the No. 4. They did update the No. 1 Mk. III's they built. In any case, do not shoot ANY Lee-Enfield without checking the headspace first. Thousands have been assembled out of parts bins with no QC.
"...reminiscent of a sten..." The Johnson had a rotary mag that was filled from the side, but it looks nothing like a STEN mag. It's not a box at all. Johnson's in decent shape are few and far between and are mucho expensive when you do see one. Not many of 'em were made to begin with either.
"...reminiscent of a sten..." The Johnson had a rotary mag that was filled from the side, but it looks nothing like a STEN mag. It's not a box at all. Johnson's in decent shape are few and far between and are mucho expensive when you do see one. Not many of 'em were made to begin with either.
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