Was thinking of getting an Uberti El Patron Competition

[Orion8472]

I was thinking of getting an Uberti El Patron Competition, but not sure if I want to go with 45LC or 357mag [and run 38spc in it]. I'm not all that worried about the difference in recoil between 45lc and 38spc, but more about the difference in price. Either one will be much more [per 50] than I normally spend on larger calibers [9mm], but wouldn't really be buying a lot of ammo for it anyway. Just a cylinder or two an outing. Still, from what I can see, 45LC is quite a bit more per 50. . . . . and wasn't sure if the "fun factor" is worth the extra amount.

Comments?

 

[Panzerschwein]

The .45 Colt (NOT long Colt, no such thing) is the finest revolver cartridge to have ever been devised. It is what the Colt's Model of 1873 Single Action Army was originally chambered for. I know if you could go back in time and show up with a .357 SAA, they would all laugh at you and the small bore gun.

Get the real cartridge. .45 Colt is the only way to go. It can be had for about $25 per 50 if you look for reman ammo online, not much more than .357 magnum but far more effective.

This is a no brainer for me, go big or go home OP.

 

[BCRider]

If you'll only be shooting small amounts at a time then there's something to be said for the big ol' .45Colt.

If you shoot 9mm and .45ACP you already have an idea of how .45Colt will feel compared to .38spl. As in a little more kick but felt more as a "THUMP" than a "BANG".

I'm out of touch with factory ammo costs since I've only bought .22 rimfire ammo for years now. I reload all my center fire ammo. And of course the factory stuff is all over the map with the present situation. But I know that the difference for ME up here in Canada reloading cost is 18 cents per round for .38Spl vs 25 to 26 cents a round for my buddy that shoots .45Colt reloads. This is based almost entirely on the cost of the bullets with just under a penny being for the additional powder.

I would suggest that if you're already set up for shooting .38Spl that you stick with it and buy the new gun in the same chambering. It just simplifies your ammo buying or reloading situation. Or perhaps that you will eventually buy a S&W in .38Spl at some point then fit your single action purchase now in with the long term plan.

Another thought is that .45ACP fits in well with .45Colt with the ability to share bullets. I know 230 gn LRN isn't that common in a .45Colt but it's not out of the question either. Or you can load 200gn LSWC in either and shoot them just fine. I've also tried some cowboy like 200gn LRNFP revolver bullets in my .45ACP loading and they chamber and shoot just fine too. So these two sizes, other than brass and loading dies, can fit in nicely with each other as well.

 

[Orion8472]

I suppose I should add that I have no revolvers . . . other than a 1958 Ruger Single Six.

 

[Bullseye]

It was the 45 Colt that first prompted me to reload. Now I reload 11+ different cartridges and don't worry about cost of ammo so much. Love my 2 Uberti cattlemen and 1873 rifle.

 

[Old Fuff]

The .45 Colt (NOT long Colt, no such thing) is the finest revolver cartridge to have ever been devised. It is what the Colt's Model of 1873 Single Action Army was originally made for.

Well yes and no.

When the Army adopted the S&W .45 Schofield they discovered the cylinder wasn't long enough to hold the Colt cartridge. So they set up Frankfort Arsenal to make a shorter round that would fit both guns. Commercial cartridge manufacturers soon added to it their lines.

The Schofield didn't last long in service, but the round remained Army standard and was exclusively issued until the Colt model 1909 was introduced and Frankfort began to make a true .45 Colt. variant to fit it.

But during the 19th and early 20th centuries ammunition companies did use a " Long Colt" or "45 LC" head stamp on occasion.

Now of course, all of this is a moot point, except for a handful of SASS/CAS shooters.

 

[BCRider]

I suppose I should add that I have no revolvers . . .

In that case I'd figure out what you want to do for a longer term plan before you buy one or the other.

As mentioned it's pretty much the case that any caliber that starts with a .4 other than .40S&W is going to force you into reloading sooner or later. If you'd rather it was MUCH later or even not at all then I'd stick with the .357Mag chambering so you can take advantage of the more easily obtained and wider variety of ammo as well as saving considerable money. I've shot both and while the .45Colt IS more fun, bigger IS better after all , for me it isn't enough better to justify the added cost. And I'm only talking about the differences in reloading prices.

Mind you I've got my .44Mag guns for when I want to rattle the cobwebs. Or a proper .357Mag is no slouch either. It won't match the kick of a full power .45Colt but it'll rattle a filling or two in your teeth when desired.

Let's face it, there's no WRONG direction to go other then NOT buying a nice single action gun. And if you like the idea of a faithful copy of the old Colt at a budget price you can't go wrong with the Uberti guns.

 

[StrawHat]

If you already have a 45 ACP, you can have an ACP cylinder fitted to the Uberti and share ammunition.

Kevin

 

[Orion8472]

How much different is the SOUND of the 45 Colt compared to the 38 Special? I'm guessing it is going to be a lower thud rather than a higher pitched crack.

It would be nice if Uberti would make a 45acp cylinder for cheaper shooting, but I probably won't be shooting this gun much anyway.

 

[BCRider]

Oddly enough I don't notice any difference between my middle of the road .38's and my buddy shooting is .45Colt loads when we're at a cowboy action event. I think the serious "CRACK!" with .38's only comes with rounds loaded to near peak pressures.

So while I'm used to .45Colt sounding more THUD'y a lot of that is likely due to hanging around the cowboy action groups. I suspect that a full pressure .45Colt would CRACK as well

Now if you want to hear a round shot that DOES make a very noticable THUD! I'd suggest you check out anyone shooting a black powder percussion revolver. Or a .45Colt with black powder rounds. The Holy Black really spreads out the recoil to a THUMP.

 

[Orion8472]

I believe I have heard something similar to that, BCRider. Earlier this week, I went to the range with my brother and there was a guy with a new Uberti, and his handloads were very smoky. I suspected Black Powder loads. But his was quite Thud-ish.

It's the sound my brother and I was looking for. . . . . but from what I am hearing you say, the 45 Colt probably won't produce that low thud sound.

I'm still considering it, but I suppose the 38 Spc would be more cost effective, since I don't reload and probably won't be for some time [if ever].

 

[BCRider]

Very smoky and "Thud'ish" sure does sound like black powder.

If that's what you're after you can get it at a reduced amount from .357Mag casings filled with either 3f black powder or Pyrodex P. No air gaps with this load though. Fill to a point where seating the bullets results in a mild amount of compression of the charge. When I load such rounds for my cowboy action rifle I aim for 3/32" of compression.

I know you won't need this just now but keep it in mind for later.

Shooting the same rounds from my revolvers results in lots of smoke, a push to the hand which feels like a full power .38Spl but spread out a little and a nice "THUMP!" sound.

Comparing the sound of black powder to smokeless is sort of like the difference in letting the end of a 10 foot 2x8 fall to smooth dirt vs falling onto a concrete floor.

 

[BobWright]

Old Fuff said:

But during the 19th and early 20th centuries ammunition companies did use a " Long Colt" or "45 LC" head stamp on occasion.

I would sure like to see an example of that. I have never found any vintage cartridges so head stamped. I do believe some of the "remanufactured" cartridges made of late may do so, but never seen it on older ammunition.

Bob Wright

 

[coinshooter]

I had one in 357 in was such a pretty gun. Wife got sick had to sell before I ever got to fire it. But I know I want another one.

 

[Kleanbore]

A few years ago, the SAA was listed on Colt's website as being available in .45 Long Colt.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

So while I'm used to .45Colt sounding more THUD'y a lot of that is likely due to hanging around the cowboy action groups. I suspect that a full pressure .45Colt would CRACK as well

Now if you want to hear a round shot that DOES make a very noticable THUD! I'd suggest you check out anyone shooting a black powder percussion revolver. Or a .45Colt with black powder rounds. The Holy Black really spreads out the recoil to a THUMP.

Howdy

A Black Powder loaded 45 Colt makes a deep BOOOM when fired from a revolver. A standard Smokeless 45 Colt load (not a weak 'cowboy' load) makes a loud crack. Pretty much the same as a 38 Special, just a lot louder.

The thing about 45 Long Colt vs 45 Colt has been going on for years.

Personally, I am of the persuasion that the word 45 Long Colt comes up in gunshops today when the clerk asks 'You mean 45 Long Colt?', to differentiate it from 45 ACP.

Yes, I have heard of some old ammo actually being head stamped 45 Long Colt, but I have never come across any.

 

[StrawHat]

...It would be nice if Uberti would make a 45acp cylinder for cheaper shooting, but I probably won't be shooting this gun much anyway...

They do make a 45 ACP cylinder. Here is an old shot of my revolver with the ACP cylinder installed and the long Colt on the table.

Kevin

 

[eastbank]

get the revolver in 45 colt, the .357 is just to new. i got a colt 38-40 to go with my 1892 win 38-40 and i,m on the hunt for a colt 44-40 to go with my 1892 SR carbine in 44-40 and then a colt 32-30 to go with my 1892 rifle in 32-20. once your set up to reload the costs go way down. eastbank.

 

[Orion8472]

Oh, the guy at the range next to us had the 44-40. That could have made a difference in the sound as well?

 

[Orion8472]

StrawHat, how does the 45acp work with a gate loading? I know that the newer type of DA/SA revolvers have moon clips to hold 45acp rounds in, but not sure how that can be done with a SA Army style pistol.

Is there a youtube video on that?

 

[Kleanbore]

I saw an article on the Long Hunter; I was impressed, and I had the same question. For me the question would likely come down to balance. I would ned to handle one of each.

Orion, the .45ACP would headspace on the case mouth.

 

[Orion8472]

Ah! Might be a good way to go eventually then.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Oh, the guy at the range next to us had the 44-40. That could have made a difference in the sound as well?

Not really. With a case full of Black Powder in both of them, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the sound between a 45 Colt and a 44-40. They both hold just about the same amount of powder, the only real difference is the weight of the bullets, which does not account for much, sound wise.

 

[StrawHat]

StrawHat, how does the 45acp work with a gate loading? I know that the newer type of DA/SA revolvers have moon clips to hold 45acp rounds in, but not sure how that can be done with a SA Army style pistol.

Is there a youtube video on that?

As Kleanbore mentioned, the case headspaces on the mouth. Ejection is fine with the ejector rod. For a "speed loader", you can use a 1911 magazine and feed the cartridges into the loading gate. Mine is a lot of fun to shoot and I do not recall the last time I used it with the long Colt cylinder in place.

I have many revolvers in 45 ACP, for fun, the SAA clone is tops! My other revolvers are S&W and vary from my carry piece to my 25-2 for target work.

No idea about youtube.

Kevin