We get barrels

[1911Tuner]

Poorly Done

Hi Peter,

That method of obtaining vertical lockup is an emergency measure...an
"Expedient Field Repair" that I've only seen a few times...and only once outside of a war zone. It's done whenever a damaged barrel must be replaced
when time or circumstances don't allow proper fitting, and the gun has to be operational...and is to be turned in to the unit armorer for repair as early as possible.

I've never seen one with the extent of material removal on the pin and lower lug as this one, though. Even with minimal material removal, the strength and
integrity of the pin is severely compromised, and failure would likely occur
within 2 hundred rounds fired...and it will happen even earlier if the slide is allowed to go to battery at full speed on an empty gun.

I can't imagine why any halfway experienced kitchen-table tinkerer would do this...much less a knowledgeable custom pistol smith...especially with the
cost and availability of lug-cutting tools that anyone can order from Brownells.
Rank amateurs who order match barrels without understanding what's involved
in installing them, yes...but not an experienced builder. The man must have taken leave of his senses...probably due to dealing with the public.

 

[Bill Z]

John, there's that and worse out there, people trying to re-invent the wheel instaed of making it nice and round. And talk about someone leaving their senses, I know this one guy and he......................................well, that wouldn't be nice, now would it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Not Nice!

heh heh heh heh...Yeppers.

I've seen some truly amazing things come from some supposedly knowledgeable people. I have to believe that the work load becomes such that some of it is turned over to the shop apprentice, and isn't checked out before being shipped. Look at the work that's come out of one of the formerly premier shops recently. (Think about it and it'll come to ya.)
Since the old salt with the handlebars who used to run it with an iron hand got too old to stay with it...things have fallen off badly. Sad. Are there no
up and coming craftsmen any more...or has the age of instant gratification and video games killed'em all off?

 

[Bill Z]

Are there no
up and coming craftsmen any more...or has the age of instant gratification and video games killed'em all off?

There are a great deal of great crafstman out there, start with the founding members of LTW and add from there. As far as semi production/custom, I think Ed Brown is still doing some innovative things, and you don't see very many of his pistols out on the market used or hear many complaints about them. Him and his son's still sit down at the benches and build 'em.

Now, your not going to find that kind of quality in a three or four or even five hundred dollar gun, I don't care what name is on the side of it. Labor and skill cost money as well as the tools you have to use and replace. There's nothing wrong with something like a Springfield or a Nork, but dropping in a trigger job and changing sights is a far cry from making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[1911Tuner]

Silk Purses

Bill Z said:

>>dropping in a trigger job and changing sights is a far cry from making a silk purse out of a sow's ear<<
_____________________

Thassa fact, Jack!

Speakin' of which...I think I'm fixin' to do one on a Caspian slide and frame
in the next few months. This may be a chance to try out one of those Kart
barrels like ya'll use....which means that I'm gonna hafta go chase my dang reamer down, if it ain't wore slap out by now....or just order a new one.

 

[Wichaka]

Dave,

how many rounds were put thru the gun after the pin was ground down?

Would like to hear what the owner has to say about the guns performance........or lack of it.....and why he took it to unsaid 'smith in the first place.

 

[Bill Z]

We'll do that one on the house John, priority mail is cheaper than buying a reamer, kind of like sight staking tools, to get one that's worth a crap it's not cost effective unless you are making money with it.

 

[1911Tuner]

On The House

Thanks for the offer Bill...but I need a finishing reamer anyway. I see so many chambers these days that are on the tight/short side that it'll be worth the cost to keep from havin' to drive 20 miles to borrow one...and then take it back. Wish the guy who borrowed mine would bring it back, even if it's used up. I'd kinda like to see it again after all these years...

 

[Bill Z]

Great, now I know where I'll be able to borrow another one when I need it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Borrowin' the Reamer

Bill said:

Great, now I know where I'll be able to borrow another one when I need it.
___________________

Yep...But the catch is that ya gotta come and get it...and take this dang
turbocharged Lab/Boxer pup back with ya. Picked him up abandoned and starvin' last summer. He wasn't s'posed ta be here this long. :banghead:
Hell...I'll GIVE ya the reamer if you'll take him!

 

[Wichaka]

Good morning Dave.

How are you?

Dave?

Are you there Dave?


- Hal 2000

 

[Dean Taylor]

I have been at Dave's for the week. We are getting ready for the Shot Show. He is too busy to post. I have seen the barrel and lugs, the slide stop and the lower end with the "smith's" signature. I can not believe he signed it. It barfed from the beginning.

Dean
[email protected]

 

[1911Tuner]

Signed, Sealed, and Delivered

Dean said:

I can not believe he signed it. It barfed from the beginning.
*****************

Un-freakin' believeable! If the guy can't do any better than that, he oughta seriously consider a Springfield drop-in service barrel next time.

 

[Stinkyshoe]

Tuner said "Sad. Are there no
up and coming craftsmen any more...or has the age of instant gratification and video games killed'em all off?"

Gosh Tuner, your right. Most everybody at college likes to play Halo 2 and drink excessively. But they look at me for being a nut ball for enjoying shootin and tinkering with my 1911s. Most kids my age think if you enjoy guns you are some sociopathic freak with a few Fruedian issues. I sure wish I could go into pistolsmithing(especially working on the 1911!!!), but I fear that it would be a very difficult business proposition. Got any suggestions? If nothing else I'd like to be a red-neck pistol wrench like yourself someday(if I am already not there

I figured out my accuracy issues with the Kart Ez-fit that I had asked you about. One lug leg was contacting the ss pin just a bit harder than the other side. This explains why I had to move the sight over to get it to pattern somewhere in the middle. I gave it the blue marker treatment, and gingerly took off just a bit. Now she groups real nice with UMC hardball...

 

[1911Tuner]

College

Stinky said:

Gosh Tuner....Halo....Drink...Nutball....Business proposition...
_________________

Howdy Stinky,

How is the New Age crowd at takin' a joke?

Pistolsmithin' as a business? Best advice that I can give ya is not to quit your day job. Most of the ones that I know(personally) started it as a
hobby/sideline and added to their equipment as they went.

I more or less got roped into it when a friend who was a licensed dealer showed me a dozen or so pistols that disgruntled customers had brought back after they choked(the guns...not the customers) and the only local guy wanted to gouge him on the repairs so bad that it was more cost-effective to just eat the loss on the guns than pay to have'em fixed. Simple stuff.(It usually is) I fixed three of'em in about an hour, and he told me that I had a job whether I wanted one or not.

Redneck? Well...That's somethin' you're kinda born to. It's like bein' 6 feet tall. Either you is...or you isn't, and there ain't much you can do about it either way.

Congrats on nailin' that barrel problem. It's usually somethin' simple...and it's the little things that getcha.

 

[c_yeager]

Most people missed the point of the thread, it was the barrel, not the 'smith, the barrel fellows. That's what the post was about.

This is the post that started the thread. The portion in ORANGE concerns the "smith" and the portion in BLUE concerns the barrel itself. The black is reserved for comments concerning neither the barrel itself or the smith who botched it.

Here is a barrel done by a very famous Colorado Gunsmith/Pistolsmith that is famous on Guntests Magazine and very well known around the Denver area. I guess he was smoking the good weed from Willie whe he did this one. I will let you be the judge of it. It was in a Caspian/Cold Cup that he did in payment for legal fees in a nasty divorce. I am installing an EZ Fit Kart barrel, a new ejector, and new slide stop and new grips and returning it so my clients Grandson will have a decent shooter. I have to re blue the lower end, also.

Perhaps, if the intent of this thread was meant to be "The Barrel" it would have been better if the preponderance of the post wasnt concerning the one who made it. I for one am not suprised that the majority of the persons responding to this thread have focused on the maker.

 

[1911Tuner]

Focus

Howdy c_yeager,

Yep...The barrel didn't get that way by itself. Somebody had to make it that way...and if we just had a name, we'd know what smith in Colorado to avoid.
Instead, all we can do is avoid ALL Colorado smiths. I ask you...Is it fair that several dozen...or several hundred competent smiths in the Rocky Mountain State lose business because of one Dremel jockey? Nay, I say! Let his name be revealed in PMs to all concerned Colorado residents!

 

[Bill Z]

Nay, I say! Let his name be revealed in PMs to all concerned Colorado residents!

Irish coffee this morning John? The guys retired, no one needs to fret him anymore.

Yeager said----
Perhaps, if the intent of this thread was meant to be "The Barrel" it would have been better if the preponderance of the post wasnt concerning the one who made it.

If we just ignore the title, and the preponderance of the relevent content and the subject of the photo's, you might have a point.


HEY LOOK EVERYONE, I was able to use the word preponderance in a sentance. Now, if I can just work in the word propensity somewhere every now and then I would sound edjumocated.

 

[macavada]

I subscribe to Gun Tests. I guess I'll have to go over a few of my old issues to figger it out. However, I don't remember there ever being much reference to any GT smith. I must not have been paying attention.

HEY LOOK EVERYONE, I was able to use the word preponderance in a sentance.

Now just learn how to spell sentence.

 

[1911Tuner]

Coffee

Bill asked:

>Irish coffee this morning John?<
***************

*hic* whazzat ya say?

OOOOOHHHHHH...Show me the way to go home! I'm tired an' I wanna go to bed! 'Had a li'l drink about an hour ago and it went right to my head...

*hic*

 

[Bill Z]

Now just learn how to spell sentence.

Just not wanting to flaunt my edjumocation this early in the morning, people might think I'm stuck up.

 

[Wichaka]

I think its poor to speak of a 'smith that does bad work........retired or not, and not let folks know who to avoid.

I agree with Tuner, let it go thru PM's or emails.........

Folks can still read about this guy in back issues and take on his way of thinkin' about things. And we all hear about people coming out of retirement.............so there goes another 'lame' excuse.

Folks on this thread are calling Dave out on this one. Either cough up the name, or don't make another post that hints to another 'smith doing bad work.

With all due respect Bill Z, this thread is pointed to Dave, he started it......he can finish it.........he can speak for himself.

There are some very simple things I want to know from Dave.........other than the 'smiths name...........how many rounds were put thru the gun after the pin was ground down? How long ago was this done?

 

[gamachinist]

I'm a bit surprised that no one else has brought it up,but:

One of the first things I learned about business is that it is really a bad idea to run down the competition.Talk yourself up all you want,but don't do it at someone elses expense.I keep examples of other shops poor work around the shop,but I won't id the perp to anyone,just that it wasn't done to my liking.

In 20 years,there is only one shop that I would ask people not to take their work to,because I knew it wasn't going to come out right,and they would be left holding the bag.
I disagree with a lot of my fellow automotive machinists about what is needed and how it should be done sometimes,but I keep my mouth shut when talking to a customer.When a prematurely failed part comes to me,I'll tell them what went wrong ifI know,and it usually involves someone getting a low price on the job by the shop that worked on it before I got it.

I wish Dave hadn't id'ed the area the smith worked in,and just said look at this poor example.But I might have made the same error.I know better now.

Dave probably has a good reason for not rattin' him out,and I respect that,based on my personal experiences.If you dis your competitors,sooner or later it will bite you on the butt,I promise (I've seen it happen).
It is a bad deal to publicly hold someone up for examination who hasn't been offered the chance to tell his side of the story,isn't it?Sort of like the courts in some parts of the world,where you don't get a chance to defend yourself,only the state gets to convict you with out any defense?
Maybe the idea to settle this by IM is a good one,snce I am not in Colorado,and don't ever expect to get a gun from that area in my hands as a repair or a purchase.That way anyone who might fall victim to this type of work could be forewarned.

But one thing to always keep in mind,that gun wasn't sealed when it left the gunsmiths shop.ANYONE could have botched it up since then,and I have had more people lie to me about what happened and how it happened than will tell the truth about it up front.
Sometimes it is because they are embarassed about admitting they botched it up,lots of times,it is so I will quote a lower price not knowing what I'm getting myself in for(I have learned how to avoid that trap).

Anyone who is in business for themselves doing anything service related,whether it be gun,car,heating/air,boat or anything else repair has been rundown by a customer that didn't want his friends to know he cheaped out or messed it up himself.This happens to me all the time,no matter how hard I try to prevent it.I even had one local garage tell his customers I was doing all his work,when I had only done one small job for him the whole time he was there.
I won't do a half way job on anything,for this reason.I can't stop people from blaming me for things I didn't do,butI can prevent it from happening because I didn't do all that was needed.

Sorry for the long winded rant,but I feel like this has been beaten to death,and we need to take "The High Road" and go onto more important things,like what was done to fix that poor, fouled up gun.
Regards,(as I look for my firesuit),Robert.

 

[1911Tuner]

Movin' On

I have to agree with gamachinist. If Dave doesn't want to reveal the name publicly, he must have his own reasons. I've done the same for a forum member who wanted to keep it on the QT...and I'll close the thread before it goes to the Helen Gone Hotel.

But...just for the record...The mod on the slidestop pin is one that's acceptable ONLY if the barrel fitter doesn't have time to do it correctly,
and ONLY as an expedient means to make the gun functional until the barrel can be correctly fitted.

If anyone can come up with a viable reason to reopen the thread, I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers all!

 

[1911Tuner]

Reopened

Reopened and BTT...I'm kinda curious as to how much use the gun has seen with the pin in that condition...

Cap'n?