Weapon transition during an attack. What would you do?

[Fred Fuller]

Some of the best training I ever had was from a serving LEO, an undercover cop who learned the skills he teaches the hard way on the street. The training involved gunfighting at zero feet. As the instructor (aka Southnarc) put it- "What to do when your awareness fails."

We need to let go of this supersentient being, 100% awareness stuff, please. It simply is not realistic and realism is something we do insist on here.

lpl

 

[scaatylobo]

@ Lee Lapin

Uh yea sure.

Pardon me if I am allowing myself to leave this poo pile.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I agree that it is impossible to be %100 aware, %100 of the time. We have to be prepared and contemplate what to do in different scenarios.

My son spent some time in a wheelchair. I realized as I was loading the wheelchair that I was spending very much time with my back turned and blind to my surroundings. There really wasn't a way to avoid being blind and leaning over loading the wheel chair. I don't have a wife to watch my back during that scenario so I had to rethink things. I switched from carrying at 4:00 to 3:00. I was seriously worried that my firearm could be exposed if my shirt got pulled away by the chair or something on my truck.

Or further situations could involve a loved one in trouble. If my son were having an asthma attack I would be distracted by stooping over and giving him his rescue inhaler and listening to his breathing.

My point is stuff (read: life) happens and our guard can be dropped, thus finding yourself in a situation as the OP proposed. If trouble were %100 avoidable, I'd have no reason to carry a firearm.

I am by no means a self defense expert, but I believe that part of being prepared is contemplating what your reaction might be when you aren't expecting trouble or you are distracted.

 

[Shadow 7D]

At some point, somewhere someone is going to get close to you who you don't know, unless you have the an army of body guards (and plenty of cases where people still have gotten through) or the Secret Service. You can try, but you should have a backup plan and the training to use it.

 

[scaatylobo]

One last ,I promise

I see the idea here.

From all the posts I have read [ all of them ] the main thread is that YOU are not prepared and therefore cannot imagine one who is.

I see many a real reason to not be able to have that radar on at all times [ children,medical things etc ] BUT since I have none of those I take umbrage at those who nay say.

AND ,if your not totally prepared while walking through a parking lot = then I say shame on you for even bothering to carry a gun at all.

I can be taken out = sure in a mall if an active shooter comes in a far door and opens fire from 100' to 100 yards = I am sure that if dropped by his first shots I will be 'taken out'.

But I am not one to walk around and not actually look for that type of incident.

Its a hobby and honestly causes me no stress,after doing it for 26 years - its purely natural .

Oh and btw I most likely have my hand on 'a' pistol if in a parking lot and its empty,I expect trouble when in such places.

As I do when in a "shop & rob" [ convenience store ],If I have read or seen an attack in a place I will be I imagine that "HELL YES" it can happen to me.

I am not bulletproof and therefore I prefer to be able to see a threat and respond ,prior to being a bullet catcher.

I hope I have explained myself in a reasonable and understandable manner,if not please respond in a polite manner and I would be happy to explain further.

 

[ForumSurfer]

AND ,if your not totally prepared while walking through a parking lot = then I say shame on you for even bothering to carry a gun at all.

I don't get why it is so hard to fathom that people can let their guard down? So you've never changed a tire in a public parking lot? You never taken pause to kiss or embrace your wife in public? There are a million different ways someone could get the drop on you because your attention has shifted elsewhere, however brief that may be.

 

[smince]

FYI, some knife wound pics for this thread:
http://www.mdtstraining.com/Contact-EdgedWeaponWounds.pdf

 

[uspJ]

Let it go guys. Theres no point talking to some people. This is drifting more off topic and scaatylobo refuses to answer what he would do if HE SOMEHOW FOUND HIMSELF IN THE SITUATION, only that it couldn't possibly happen to him. Which makes any input from him on this thread off topic and useless to the conversation. If he would like to contribute to the conversation with an on topic post and not prattle on about "real men" and omniscience then I would welcome his input. Mods feel free to close this one if you see fit before it sinks any more than it has. To everyone who has posted (relevant to the conversation) I thank you for your input.

Thanks for the pics smince. Good to see the reality of what you may have to inflict/have inflicted upon you.

 

[scaatylobo]

OP

THE OP,

Since knives and their use have been topics for discussion recently I have a scenario and something to ask that I've been thinking about lately.

Here is the scenario. It's kind of long but bare with me.

Its 3:00 p.m. your exiting your local grocery store on the way back to your vehicle. You make a conscious effort to be aware as you make your way, you are scanning the surrounding area, you have made sure to carry the single bag of groceries in your weak hand to keep your dominant hand free should you have to use it. The parking lot is crowded with cars and you were unable to park away from other vehicles, you see no one that sets off any alarms or gives you a bad feeling. You get to your vehicle and reach into your pocket for your keys with your free hand and... WHAM! You've just been struck in the face by a bg that was on the blind side of the vehicle that was parked beside yours. He is right on top of you continuing to strike you with a small semi-auto as he demands your keys, wallet and phone . You fall to one knee between your car and another. Your dominant hand is still in your pocket and the kneeling position is making it difficult to remove it. The strikes you have taken have opened up a gash on your forehead and your vision is becoming blurred by your blood. You try again out of instinct to go for your gun but the successive blows and adrenaline are making it difficult to free yourself. With your weak hand you grab your knife and jam it into the thigh of the bg. He stops striking you as the pain and surprise hits him. With his attack temporarily stopped you are able to get to your feet and free your dominant hand. You are less than two feet away from each other and you have three options at this point."

Sorry but I apologize to all that took umbrage at my statements.

But I was responding to the OP and as stated he was "surprised" in a parking lot at 3 PM and he was alone and imnsho had NO reason to be unprepared for an attack under those circumstances.

I will go no further ,but if any care to see that as incorrect I stand to listen.

 

[uspJ]

Sorry but I apologize to all that took umbrage at my statements.

But I was responding to the OP and as stated he was "surprised" in a parking lot at 3 PM and he was alone and imnsho had NO reason to be unprepared for an attack under those circumstances.

I will go no further ,but if any care to see that as incorrect I stand to listen.

It seems that most seem to be more on guard in the darker hours. I used 3pm as an example because it is a time when most people feel safer (just do a search on gas stations and you'll see what I mean.) than they would at 10pm. Bad things happen any times not just when you think they will. I used that as an example to give food for thought to others.

Sooooo......any input on what you would do in a situation somehow similar, where you would have the option to transition from an edged weapon to a weapon with more immediete stopping power while allready engaged in a fight at contact distance? Do you even carry a knife? Anything that pertains to the thread?

 

[scaatylobo]

YES to a knife

I was born in NYC and carried a knife since I was 7 y/o.

I now EDC 3 blades and when in the woods = a few more.

One of my EDC blades is a lock blade [ a C.Reeves Umnumzaam now ] and could be used as a S/D tool.

I envision using that tool against a dog that was attacking a child where a shot might be more dangerous to that child than the judicious use of the blade.

I carry my lock blade in the same position that I have always done so = in R.R. pocket and its fast to hand.

But the gun is also same side and I could envision going for the blade under the circumstance that I could not reach my gun [ covered by coat ],which I try to avoid but yes it could happen.

That being the case I doubt that I would transition if the blade was in hand as I feel pretty comfortable with that,I still train on the heavy bag with a blade [ fake ] so I hope that explains my use.

If possible to extracate from that far enough to draw the gun,I might try to deescallate the whole scenerio as I am now really armed against a wounded and hopefully unarmed perp.

 

[uspJ]

Thanks for the input. I like the idea of using a knife on the heavy bag. I still haven't hung mine up again since I moved this year but will definately incorporate that into my heavy bag routine and dedicate at least a session a week.

 

[hso]

2 and 3 actually go together in one move, but a single thrust is stopping too soon. You need to pump the knife a couple of times while slamming into the guy and wrapping up that gun arm. Then you can shove off and get to cover and draw if he gets up and follows.

Pierce, Push, Pedal, Present

 

[thommygun]

The biggest problem with shooting the bg is the busy parking lot. Nobody wants to miss, but it happens. Specially with blood on your face. With a close quarter contact sittuation like that, it makes it easier for the bullet to go through your aggresser.

 

[ChCx2744]

I'll play with the scenario OP mentioned. In this scenario, we have all ALREADY drew and used the knife! We are now holding a knife in our weak hands with nothing in our strong hands. If I'm close enough, I'm going to continue weak-hand striking, slashing and stabbing with the knife until the target stops or stops moving. Everything is about time, and in an emergency situation, you don't have much of it; gotta use every millisecond you can!

I choose to continue attacking with the knife because it is the most readily and available tool AT THE MOMENT. Pushing the target away to get enough distance to draw and shoot takes a bit more effort and time than a few follow up stabs and slashed from the already deployed knife. Running away from the injured BG may open up space and allow you to scream for help, but then you may get shot in the back or back of your head, which you won't be able to see him aiming at you or anything.