Weirdness with .45ACP reloads

[Charlie98]

I recently loaded about 325 .45ACP's with some really nice 200grn cast SWC's a friend sent to me. What I liked about these was the fairly large driving band, and it was my intention to try some of the powder coated ones in my .45 Colt H&R (higher velocity...) and run the plain lead ones in the pistols. I made a dummy round, plunked it in my stainless Kimber Eclipse 4" barrel... and off to the races I went.

My wife told me I needed to go see my therapist today, so I picked up 3 boxes of the new .45's, my Kimber Custom II 5", and an AR that I needed to zero a Romeo5 on... and headed for the therapist.... er, I mean... range. First thing out of the box... the .45's would not chamber all the way, the slide would stop dead just out of battery. Hmmm... After a second... and 3rd... try, I decided for safety's sake, to abandon the .45, and just move along to the AR... which zeroed without issues.

Getting back to the bench, I pulled all of the pistols out of the safe... sure enough, they plunked in the 4" Eclipse. They plunked in my friend's 4" Kimber Pro CDP. It plunked, reluctantly, in my Kimber 4" ProCarry. ...and, again, it did not plunk the Custom II. I also have an old 5" Springfield takeoff .45 barrel... and it was a nogo there, as well. Just odd... It more or less drops into the 4" barrels, but not the 5" barrels. It isn't a tight fit... the cartridges enter the chamber freely, but obviously bottoms out on the chamber, it is not entering the freebore/rifling.

Here is the cartridge in question... I don't know the mould this bullet came out of, I've not been able to find anything close to it, but I'm not a caster, so I don't really know. Has anyone else seen this sort of thing?

I'm going to take the Eclipse back to the range this week... and give them a go, but I just want to make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree. I've loaded SWC's in the .45ACP before, just not with that big of a driving band.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Has anyone else seen this sort of thing?

Yes. Most recently with some very old Albert’s Swaged 200gr LSWC .452” and my FiL’s Ruger American .45ACP. They ran in his Colt Gold Cup Series 80 and in all of my .45’s but they would hang up in the Ruger just shy of battery. Seating deeper and changing the crimp from barely there to no crimp did nothing. I eventually ran a dozen through the FCD and they fed but pops in law is an anti-FCD’er so he put them on a shelf and forgot about them.

 

[nettlle]

Did you check them with a case gauge?

 

[jmorris]

Getting back to the bench, I pulled all of the pistols out of the safe... sure enough, they plunked in the 4" Eclipse. They plunked in my friend's 4" Kimber Pro CDP. It plunked, reluctantly, in my Kimber 4" ProCarry. ...and, again, it did not plunk the Custom II.

Every manufacturer has a tolerance +/-, if you want ammo to run in everything, only use your pickiest barrel for your “plunk” approval. If you use the one that eats everything, all of the others might choke.

 

[PO2Hammer]

That’s too much shoulder sticking out of the case in my estimation.
I think you have to seat those deeper and probably rework the load from starting data for the nearest SWC of similar weight. Shouldn’t hurt function, many guns run great with the button nose wadcutters.

 

[Charlie98]

Did you check them with a case gauge?

I don't have my .45 case gauge any longer... I think I gave it to my brother, as he is starting to handload, again.

if you want ammo to run in everything, only use your pickiest barrel for your “plunk” approval.

Well... I assumed a Kimber is a Kimber is a Kimber... my mistake. I know now to use the Springfield or Custom II barrel to plunk test, fo sho.

 

[Charlie98]

That’s too much shoulder sticking out of the case in my estimation.
I think you have to seat those deeper and probably rework the load from starting data for the nearest SWC of similar weight. Shouldn’t hurt function, many guns run great with the button nose wadcutters.

Those are taper crimped in a bit, they are not going to seat any further without shaving lead... or destroying the case. There is nothing left to work up... that is all of that bullet that I had, except the 50 of the powder coated ones, which are destined for the .45 Colt. In hindsight, that's prolly where ALL of these should have gone, but that's water under the bridge.

 

[jmorris]

Well... I assumed a Kimber is a Kimber is a Kimber... my mistake. I know now to use the Springfield or Custom II barrel to plunk test, fo sho.

Tooling wears each time it’s used, why they have a range of acceptable chamber dimentions, to keep from having to use a reamer once and throw it away. If you get one at the beginning of life, you would have a larger chamber and more lead, than the last barrel chambered before the reamer was retired.

 

[nettlle]

I don't have my .45 case gauge any longer... I think I gave it to my brother, as he is starting to handload, again.




Well... I assumed a Kimber is a Kimber is a Kimber... my mistake. I know now to use the Springfield or Custom II barrel to plunk test, fo sho.

My Colt and CZ's will plunk about anything. As far as my Dan Wesson goes if doesn't won't pass a case gauge it's not going to plunk in the Dan Wesson.

 

[Charlie98]

Tooling wears each time it’s used, why they have a range of acceptable chamber dimentions, to keep from having to use a reamer once and throw it away. If you get one at the beginning of life, you would have a larger chamber and more lead, than the last barrel chambered before the reamer was retired.

What's funny about that is... all the 4" barrels plunked, neither of the (different) 5"ers did. I don't know if they ream the 4" barrels different, being they are intended as carry pieces or something, or they use the older tooling on the non-match, non-target barrels... or if it's just an anomaly.

 

[Larry in wyoming]

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/molds/68_15.jpg

Hensley and Gibbs 68?

 

[nettlle]

I was in a similar situation and purchased a case gauge. If it failed the case gauge I blamed my reloading. If it passed the case I would consider it to be my gun. In my situation it was my reloading (I.E range brass).

 

[jmorris]

What's funny about that is... all the 4" barrels plunked, neither of the (different) 5"ers did. I don't know if they ream the 4" barrels different, being they are intended as carry pieces or something, or they use the older tooling on the non-match, non-target barrels... or if it's just an anomaly.

If they did use different specifications for grinding, I bet they would tell you with an email but yeah, each will be different, why these guys exist.

National Firearms Examiner Academy | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

ATF opened the National Firearms Examiner Academy (NFEA) in 1999 to provide training for entry-level firearms examiners from local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. This innovate academy is a collaboration with ATF’s National Laboratory Center, the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark...

www.atf.gov

 

[AJC1]

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/molds/68_15.jpg

Hensley and Gibbs 68?

The hg-68 has a sharper point and the Lee swc is not as tall. It's like a weird tweener

 

[lordpaxman]

It’s a bit of pain to plunk in every barrel but necessary in my opinion. I’ve got a chart of every barrel and bullet and what the max COL is. Even though I think I know which barrel is the limiting one, a new bullet goes through the process.

What's funny about that is... all the 4" barrels plunked, neither of the (different) 5"ers did.

My son and I were doing some dot toture drills and he’s out of ammo. I had extra reloads, 9mm RN 124’s at 1.130”, not really super long, but they would chamber in my P226 but not in his P229. Had to release the extractor and use a squib rod to knock the round out.

 

[CQB45ACP]

We all or most have been there. About 325 whacks of a hammer from now this’ll all be a fading memory.

Other than intellectual curiosity, no
real point in solving the mystery cause it’s not like you’re ever going to load these or similar again. I hope.

Guess I am curious though. What’s the COL?

 

[ballman6711]

I have three Kimber 45acp's, a 5" and two 3" barrels. One of the short barrels is tighter than the other two, so I plunk in that one. I can plunk my rounds in either of the other two, but then there's no guarantee that they will chamber in the tight barrel.

FWIW, both 3" guns are supposed to have "match" barrels, so one would think they would have the same tight chamber, but they don't.

chris

 

[SingleActionAndrew]

Are you taper crimping there into the lube groove? I don't think you should do that. Typically you want the shoulder (front of the bearing surface) on SWC to be under an inch (I use 0.920) from the base of the case on 45acp with 180-200gr SWC. This leaves a pretty small chamber inside the cartridge so try to make sure when you find a starting (minimum) load it's for a SWC. Yours look to need to be seated quite a bit more into the case, but likely need to be torn down first.

 

[koz4guns]

That’s an odd looking bullet, can you post a picture of it not loaded?

 

[Laphroaig]

That’s too much shoulder sticking out of the case in my estimation.

That's the first thing that I would try. My Springfield RO chamber requires only about a thumbnail thickness of shoulder visible to plunk. Those wouldn't chamber for me either.

Those are taper crimped in a bit, they are not going to seat any further without shaving lead...

You'd have to pull them and start over if you go that route. Or shave a bunch of lead, neither of which is good.

 

[Charlie98]

Hensley and Gibbs 68?

No, this bullet has an additional lube groove below...

Guess I am curious though. What’s the COL?

I loaded them at 1.250" I first loaded some 200grn RMR PRN bullets at that length, and then I made that dummy round up with the cast 200grn bullet, and that's right where the crimp/lube groove fell, so I ran with it after I checked the plunk and the feed.

That’s an odd looking bullet, can you post a picture of it not loaded?

These are powder coated, but the same bullet...

 

[koz4guns]

Ok, I agree with what others have said, it should be seated deeper.

You should seat it so there is only about a 1/16 of an inch of what you are calling the driving band above the case mouth, most people will say a thumb nails amount.

 

[CQB45ACP]

No, this bullet has an additional lube groove below...



I loaded them at 1.250" I first loaded some 200grn RMR PRN bullets at that length, and then I made that dummy round up with the cast 200grn bullet, and that's right where the crimp/lube groove fell, so I ran with it after I checked the plunk and the feed.



These are powder coated, but the same bullet...

Had a coworker say “since I have no idea what you’re doing, I’m happy to second guess you”

In that spirit, here is a picture of two different 200gr SWCs I use, also at 1.250”

They don’t look at all the same but don’t have too either. The lead one is .642” long BTW

 

[Jim Watson]

So shoot them in the Eclipse and be done with them.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Ok, I agree with what others have said, it should be seated deeper.

You should seat it so there is only about a 1/16 of an inch of what you are calling the driving band above the case mouth, most people will say a thumb nails amount.

Of course seating within specified COL