Went to the Desert on Saturday

[kungfuhippie]

One of my hobbies is to explore ghost towns and mining districts/sites in the local desert. I've always gone armed. My mentality is simple, I don't expect cops to "protect" me in the city, why five miles off the beaten path should they do better? I carry my 9mm pistol holstered minimum but this weekend had my sks along for the ride. My buddy took an m38. We were about 1/2 mile from the truck up on a hill. It was windy and we were down wind, out of shouting distance. Some folks in a jeep showed up and I noticed them first when they were peering through the windows of our truck. I was instantly at code red. I released the retention strap on my pistol and sized up the situation. They were being suspicious, but not crossing any lines. My first thought was to fire a warning shot...bad choice, I didn't. They then started looking around (for the owners to see if they were around) and saw us. And waved. then the guy made sure to come talk to us. Seamed like a shady fellow. They drove off a minute later. He saw our firearms (2 rifles and a pistol) and I think that helped them decide to leave. I don't know that they were up to know good, they just seamed to be. I related the days activities (besides jeepo-creepo) to my sister (anti) and she expressed a desire to go with me next time. I agreed but explained that I always take a firearm for protection and that wasn't debatable. She thought it a "good idea" since she's had to deal with desert-trash types as a social worker (the ones that live in a cave 15 miles down a dirt road making meth and raping their kids) I was shocked, until I realized that she's a recovering liberal and the liberal mentality is that no one needs "X" until they do, they "X" is perfectly acceptable.
So I told dad about the situation and sister overheard, she asked why I didn't fire a "warning shot". Then asked if it's okay to shoot people if their stealing your truck. I think there are times it's justified but 99% of the time it'd be homicide.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Then asked if it's okay to shoot people if their stealing your truck. I think there are times it's justified but 99% of the time it'd be

I wonder about that, especially since you were out in the desert. Stealing your transportation (your way of getting back out of the desert) could kill you (kinda like stealing a cowboy's horse back in the day).

Anyway, glad you are okay. I've had a couple of shaves in the back-country myself.

 

[David904]

I dunno... You're in the middle of the desert. If someone steals your truck and you have no water or means to get to some... You're dead. Arguable self-defense.

Then again, if you aren't out in the hinterlands, then restraint would definitely be in order. Smart move carrying both a longarm as well as a sidearm.

 

[Hoppy590]

good that you had a head on your shoulder as to not fire a warning shot. if they were armed, would then know you were too, that may escalate things. or atleast get cops called on you

 

[lysander]

She thought it a "good idea" since she's had to deal with desert-trash types as a social worker (the ones that live in a cave 15 miles down a dirt road making meth and raping their kids) I was shocked, until I realized that she's a recovering liberal and the liberal mentality is that no one needs "X" until they do, they "X" is perfectly acceptable.

Good Gracious!! I thought "The Hills Have Eyes" was a fictional film.

 

[kungfuhippie]

I guess I never asked the question. What would you have done in a similar situation?
The warning shot thing was a fleeting thought (I blame TV ). Had they started to break into the truck before I got to them then it would have been a possibility. If I were more than 5 miles from civilization I'd have consider stealing the truck a threat against my life. Who ever assumed I had no water, let me just say for everyone, when in the desert I figure there are several things you should have with you always...not in the car.

Water
Firearm
Pocket Tool
Hat
Matches
food (trail mix...)

and that's when you're within a half hours walk of the car.

 

[50 Shooter]

I always tell people that plan on going to the desert to bring some sort of firearm. I've been out in the middle of nowhere and have had people show up and there's no way I would turn my back on them.

Remember that they can see you coming for miles and at night you can see a campfire from even further. Those desert rats aren't your friends and would more then likely steal anything they could get their hands on. I would be extra careful if you're alone or seperated from your friends.

 

[Zoogster]

Illegal to carry in desert.

Be careful, some of those deserts out in the middle of nowhere with no law enforcement around are state parks. Carrying for any reason in a state park is a big crime. Sometimes ghost towns are protected as some state park or monument or other nonsense as well. In fact the biggest state park in CA is Anza-Borrego state park which is in the middle of the desert and most of which is desolate and far from anyone else.
"Anza-Borrego Desert State Park in southern California is the largest state park in California and the second largest state park in the United States (after Adirondack State Park in New York)"
Carrying a firearm there would be against the law. Death Valley also springs to mind. As do other remote locations where law enforcement and any witnesses are miles away.
Where you need a firearm most might be a prohibited felony offense, so keep that in mind.

 

[nearthebeach]

state park vs. national park

gun laws in state parks are different than gun laws in national parks.

National Park or National Monument = no guns
California State Park = usually guns allowed if you have a California permit to carry a concealed weapon.

 

[BsChoy]

The need to establish self defense is "what would a reasonable person do if this occurred?" 5 Miles outside of town was it...you frequent the area and know your way back ok? answer yes to both of those in court and its murder. An average male can walk 4 miles an hour. you'd be home in 1 hour and 15 minutes. Water needs would be minimal and you would probably see traffic on the road before you got to town...just my .02

 

[kungfuhippie]

Great reminder Zoogster. The state parks are off limits, so I haven't been "ghost-towning" there yet. I need to look into weither or not a black powder revolver would be considered a firearm, since ATF doesn't think so. Doubtful I'd be so lucky.

 

[Davo]

Kudos on being prepared, my initial impression was that they were unsure if your vehicle was abandoned or not, but of course they could have been no good.
Beware those desert rats, and even more the drug manufacturers that live in California's deserts. I have been witness to things that make "the hills have eyes" seem like a comedy.
BTW-the mexican mob has scouts that observe much of the desert, but they have mostly relocated from the off-roader hot spots.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Off Limits to Self Defense

Hippie,

Take the longbow. Heck, take the crossbow!

And don't forget your bullwhip.

 

[Zoogster]

Take the longbow. Heck, take the crossbow!

"Loaded firearms or weapons of any kind (crossbow, bow and arrow, slingshot, etc.) are not allowed in Anza-Borrego Desert State Park. Weapons must be incapable of being discharged and must be in a case."

“Firearm” means shotgun, rifle, pistol, crossbow, bow and arrow, compressed air gun, pellet gun, BB gun, pistol or revolver from which shot, bullets or missiles are discharged.

Both qoutes from state sites, and include most state parks. The majority of state parks (in CA) specificly outlaw all weapons, and if you find one that does not CA state law does.
So yes even a slingshot is a major crime in a state park :banghead:

 

[george29]

“A man alone is easy prey... Only by standing together will you beat the LaHoods of t

the world" ....(Pale Rider)
I used to take the dogs, even with some serious fire-power, alone is still not a good idea.

 

[TallPine]

you can bet the bad guys don't refrain from carrying guns in those state parks ...

 

[Zoogster]

TallPine: you can bet the bad guys don't refrain from carrying guns in those state parks ...

Most definately not. In fact I was just looking at the article about the national guard being overun in AZ.
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/borderstory0104-CR.html

The article quotes between Lukeville, AZ and Nogales, AZ without being more specific. Well Lukeville, AZ is in the middle of Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. So if they were crossing around there it would have been illegal for a private citizen to be armed in that location.

Though I am not entirely up to date on national monument carrying, they are run by the national park service, so I assume carrying in such a preserve is illegal unless engaged in specific permitted hunting with a weapon meeting the standards of legal hunting (magazine cap limits, hunting license, hunting season, tags, etc). Though being in AZ there may be some exceptions.

Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument borders Mexico for many miles.

In CA we have had robberies, murders, even serial killers that target state and national parks such as Yosemite killer Cary Stayner who murdered 4 women in the park: The room was on the outskirts with no guests nearby to hear their screams. Carole Sund, 42, her daughter, Juli, 15, and their Argentine friend, Silvina Pelosso, an exchange student, were guests at the Yosemite lodge where Stayner worked.
"He convinced Carole Sund to let him check for a leak in the bathroom and pulled a gun. After killing Sund, he drove Juli to a remote reservoir, slashed her throat and covered her body with brush."

He worked there as a handyman, and later killed a park employee. Possessing a firearm in Yosemite National park is a crime.

 

[Ryder]

I'm betting he really was concerned for your welfare. People are supposed to assist others out in the wilderness. You do not pass someone up if there is a possibility they may be in trouble. My general experience has been that the farther you get from "civilization" the more helpful and trustworthy people are. It's because they may need assistance themselves someday. I never tire of the smiles and friendliness I get from complete strangers when I'm in the boonies around here. Can't begin to count the number of strangers I've assisted who were stuck out in the middle of nowhere. Deep sand, mud holes, snow drifts, ditches... Hahaha, some people just don't know their limitations.

But I've been helped in turn.

I went on a two week long hike up north roughing it one summer (college age/long hair). Walking down some crumbly blacktop in the middle of nowhere about 2 in the afternoon. The Sun and the blisters were kicking my butt hard so I sat down in the shade of a white pine to tend my wounds. There was a little house across the road from me and just as I am thinking my day is over and I need to crawl off into the brush and pitch my tent for a nap this little old lady came out of the house and invited me over for some iced lemonade. Her husband returned from town just before I left and he was just as nice. We never even traded names yet due to her assistance I was able to make it to the next lake, get a swim in, pitch my tent, and catch dinner, all before sundown.

That's how things are out in the boonies and some of the best best people on this planet look scarey. Don't prejudge us all.

 

[SniperStraz]

GA State Parks

It ok to carry in a GA state park so long as the weapon is not concealed and the ammo is seperated from the firearm. An unloaded weapon that everyone is aware of, sounds like a real useful tool eh?

 

[Mauserguy]

I agree with Ryder. The chances are that they were just checking to make sure you hadn't broken down. A couple of months ago I was heading out to my favorite desert shooting location when I saw a truck stopped there. I drove past and noticed that there was a little boy sitting in it. Nobody else was around.

I stopped and walked back to the truck and asked the kid if he was alright. He was obviously scared. I then asked him if he was with his father. He said yes. I then asked if he wanted me to call the police. He said no. I drove up a couple of hundred yards, to the nearest rise, and stopped to look back. Just then I saw a man running back from a nearby cactus plant. He was carrying a model airplane.

The kid was scared alright, but he was scared of me. Sometimes people are just trying to be helpful.
Mauserguy

 

[Zoogster]

Sometimes people are just trying to be helpful.
Mauserguy

Sometimes they are just pretending to be harmless until they have analyzed the situation too. There is helpful people, and dangerous people, that is why having arms is so important. Having arms allows you to be polite more often and not be totaly defenseless if someone dangerous gets past your safety net.
Ted Bundy pretended to have a broken arm or injured and put his arm in a cast or sling and would fumble or stumble dropping books on college campuses to gain sympathy from college girls. When one helped him carry them to his car he would hit them so hard from behind they would die or be unconscious at which point he would abuse and then kill them. Sometimes he pretended to be a police officer. He murdered over 35 women, most young girls going to college. Other such killers would pretend to be broken down on the side of a road and target those that stopped to help. Wiki even has a reference to some of the more well known or documented of such reasons to be armed and vigilant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_country

Vampires and Werewolves in folklore are directly linked to explaining serial killer's murders in history. Evil people exist and have for a long time. Be vigilant.
To trust people in the middle of nowhere and not be prepared and capable of a formidible defense is foolish.

 

[CNYCacher]

State Parks

Legality of carrying in State Parks depends on the state. Ex: NY state parks are not designated victim disarmament zones.

Please check your LOCAL laws

 

[kungfuhippie]

I am trusting of people, sometimes too trusting. These people were up to no good. We were up a dead end road, not visible (not one you accidentially turn down) and the only thing there is the mining ruins. If they drove all the way out there to see the ruins why'd they leave when the saw we were there, and armed? Why was there a burned out nissan xterra in the same spot? Why did they seam like creaps while talking to them? Why were they peering in the windows of a truck without tinted windows, wern't looking for people, just things. There's a big difference between scary looking guy and creep looking for loot...
-The conversation went something like this;
Hey guys, see you're out looking at the mines. Yeah, we out here looking around too. You come out hear much?
-No, first time to this place. Have you veen here before?
-yeah but I've never stopped to look around. (dead end road)
-Well we'd better get going (after being there 10 minutes max)

I don't know if they were just scared of us having guns (it is California) or if they realized we'd be difficult to rob. But they wern't friendlies.

 

[Soybomb]

I don't know if desert explorers carry a bag of gear, but maybe it'd be worth it to throw a small air-horn in your sack if you do. I think walmart has some pretty small ones in the boating section that wouldn't take up much room. It'd give you a little more range than yelling to get someone's attention and let them know they're being watched and wouldn't give someone a reason to start shooting back.

 

[kungfuhippie]

great idea, air horn! that or a wistle (though if I use a wistle someone may think I'm being raped )
I have a small Army Corps Of Engineers messenger bag I use for basics and ammo, it's great in the summber since it keeps you cooler than a backpack. it's small but has a great spot for a canteen, papers, notepads, etc. I bet an airhorn will find a place in my bag before my next trip, that and those mini road flares.