Western hunting Caliber.

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People more experienced than me always say the 30-06 is the best "universal caliber" for hunting anything in the lower 48 from Fl. whitetails on up to any other beast we have, due to the diversity in factory loads available. For me, a 308 meets all of my needs. For a one rifle forever and for all things person- looking to shoot bigger critters at longer ranges than most of us- I guess the 30-06 makes more sense. I would opt for one in the Ruger American. There is a book about a man who killed every big game species and subspecies in North America and he used the same Winchester 30-06 model 70 to do it over several years. Probably an interesting read.
 
The best “out west” big game cartridge is of course the .308 Norma - my user name. So far, I’ve killed 2 mule deer with my Norma, each 1 shot kills. And both deer dropped in their tracks.
I’m being flippant of course. I love my .308 Norma Magnum, which I had built by Montana Rifle Company as a retirement gift to myself. But the fact of the matter is I killed my first mule deer with regular .308 Winchester. And that deer has been dead for well over a half century. In that half century, I’ve killed mule deer, elk and antelope with everything from a .30 Carbine to a .338 Winchester Magnum in terms of power, and everything from .223 to a .50 in terms of caliber. They all work on western (Idaho) big game. It’s just a matter of putting the bullet in the right place.
Of course the bullet has to be heavy enough, and be traveling fast enough to penetrate to something vital. That said; one of the largest deer I ever killed was the one I killed with a little .30 Carbine. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not advocating the use of a .30 Carbine for a deer rifle. Without getting into the whole scenario, I’ll just say that the deer I shot with a .30 Carbine was at the most, 10 yards from me, standing still, and I put a 110gr., .30 Carbine bullet right behind his ear. He wouldn’t have dropped any faster if I’d have shot him with my .308 Norma Magnum. But for all those who claim “bullet placement is everything” because that deer would have dropped just as fast if I’d have shot him with a .22LR (illegal for deer hunting in Idaho anyway) - being no further away than that deer was from me, I could have easily placed a BB from my Daisy Red Ryder in the same place (right behind his ear) and he would have just ran off.
To get back the OP’s question though, for the “best” all around cartridge for big game hunting “out west,” the good old 30-06 gets my vote. But my dad killed a lot of deer and elk with his beloved .308 Winchester. So I wouldn’t rule out a .308 Winchester either. And while I’m not a fan of the various 6.5’s, I’ll admit that with today’s powders and bullets, the .264 Win Mag might be another good choice. So might be the .270 Winchester or the .280 Remington. I think both the 7mm Weatherby Mag and the 7mm Remington Mag are good options too, with slight favor going to the Weatherby if you’re a handloader. Any one of the various .30 caliber magnums would be a great choice in my opinion – again, if you’re a handloader. Finally, for an “all around” cartridge for big game hunting, not just “out west” but anywhere in north America, there’s the .338 Win Mag. A .338 Win Mag will easily spit out a 225 grain bullet out at 2800fps+, just like a 30-06 will do to a 165 grain bullet. Furthermore, ballistics charts show that the trajectories of the two bullets are the same clear out to 500 yards. The trade-off is of course recoil, although I personally never thought my .338 Win Mag kicks all that hard.
Anyway, like I said, I love my .308 Norma Magnum, but the 30-06 gets my vote for the “best” all around cartridge for big game hunting out here in the west. The .308 Norma pretty much requires handloading and a custom rifle. Besides, I seldom load my .308 Norma to its full potential anyway. My handloads for it are more like hot, but still below maximum, 30-06 loads.
 
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The 300 Weatherby Mag is not the easiest thing to work up an accurate reduced load. I tried something in the 30/06 velocity range using H4831SC and was quite amazed just how bad the rifle could shoot. It was my first bench test of the rifle and I thought there was something wrong with it. The rifle was a new Winchester Model 70 that I sent to McMillan and had them pillar bed it in their stock. So, I thought it would be first class. But wow, I was seeing like 5 inch groups at 100 yards. So, I went back home and got some Weatherby factory 150's and proceeded to shoot a 1/2 group, probably about the only one I have ever shot. They beat the hell out of you, but I decided since they shot so well to just live with it rather than chasing an accurate reduced load.
 
The 300 Weatherby Mag is not the easiest thing to work up an accurate reduced load. I tried something in the 30/06 velocity range using H4831SC and was quite amazed just how bad the rifle could shoot. It was my first bench test of the rifle and I thought there was something wrong with it. The rifle was a new Winchester Model 70 that I sent to McMillan and had them pillar bed it in their stock. So, I thought it would be first class. But wow, I was seeing like 5 inch groups at 100 yards. So, I went back home and got some Weatherby factory 150's and proceeded to shoot a 1/2 group, probably about the only one I have ever shot. They beat the hell out of you, but I decided since they shot so well to just live with it rather than chasing an accurate reduced load.
That's interesting. I wonder why. My .308 Norma is very accurate with reduced loads, but the truth is I never attempted reduced loads in the .300 Win Mag I used to have. I've never even fired a .300 Weatherby. I've heard they DO have a pretty snappy recoil.
 
I have been looking at cooper rifles and they seem to do a lot of .280 AI. Is this a worthwhile venture, or is it to obscure to be worth it? Enough knockdown for elk?
 
280 doesn't need the AI treatment to have "enough knock down" for elk. Heck a simple 7x57 shooting 139 gr factory loads will lay them out stone cold dead, and it's doubtful you'll recover a bullet if you shoot them at 300 yd. or less.
 
Elk hunters that I know use everything from a 25/06 to a 375 H&H. Use what you can shoot well and use a well constructed bullet like a Nosler partition. Please don't shoot at an elk or an antelope at 500 yards if you can get closer. I blame those long range shows on TV for this new concept of shooting at game that is way out there. It can and has been done, but most HUNTERS can get closer and make a one shot kill.
Exactly, my last elk guide told me of clients who pass up closer shots because they want to kill one at long range like the TV guys, crazy. Respect the animal, people.

Have killed two cow elk with a 6.5x55 using factory ammo, both DRT.
 
Exactly, my last elk guide told me of clients who pass up closer shots because they want to kill one at long range like the TV guys, crazy. Respect the animal, people.

Have killed two cow elk with a 6.5x55 using factory ammo, both DRT.
Had a love affair with a 700 Classic chambered for the Swede. We took several whitetils before I got stupid and sold it.. Do you want to kick me now or later?
 
Had a love affair with a 700 Classic chambered for the Swede. We took several whitetils before I got stupid and sold it.. Do you want to kick me now or later?

You can always get another one. ;) Here's mine, a Sako Finnlight in 6.5x55. It's getting a little beat up after a dozen or so hunts but oh well. Cow elk taken at Ted Turner's Vermejo Park ranch, New Mexico, 8,000', temperature 0 degrees.
 

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Watched one of the "Impossible Shots" programs... that was it...no more! The "marksman" couldn't shoot! He missed the animal by at least 3 feet at whatever humongous distance he was shooting at...they said he did that "to show how hard it is!" POPPYCOCK!

300 yards is a fur piece, :what: and most of us desk-bound sedentary types are not capable of taking shots beyond about 300 yards max, lMNHO!

Before we were told by the gunmakers' Ad departments "Biggah is necessary", people like Mrs. Jack O'Connor were poleaxing African game with the "puny" 7mm Mauser, and Norwegians have used the "little" 6.5 X 55 "Swede" for their Elk, which is more like our Moose.
My son-in-law "did his research", and picked out "the Best caliber" , some sort of .30 caliber short magnum round. He is an educator, and is very satisfied with his "book larnin.'' :banghead:
He was making statements like "Well, I missed a Coyote at 425 yards!" Of course he did! He is afraid of his gun. He has a perfectly good .270, which sits , gathering dust in his closet. :rolleyes:

My elk was taken with my .270, and my party had a 7mm Mauser, '06, and 6 mm. All perfectly adequate. But, what do we know?
 
Shhhhhh......don't tell the elk they're in no danger from such puny calibers. ;)

My 6.5x55 and 150 gr. .30-'06 are a piece of cake to shoot.

If you poke a hole in their lungs, they're gonna die.
 
I'm torn, this year for elk, I'm not sure if I'll use my M1A SOCOM .308 or my new bolt action 30-06. The SOCOM is a nice short barreled rifle that I've modified extensively and holds very nice groups out to 400 yards with my 168gr TTSX handloads. The 30-06 is still being built and might not be finished in time to get me used to it.

As to jmr40's comment about my statement that the bigger magnums will damage more meat;

"Only if shot at very close range. The 300's shoot the same bullets, at 200 yards they are the same speed as a 30-06 is at the muzzle and will destroy no more meat."

All I can say is - ??????? I mean just what kind of reasoning is that?

Sure they are the same diameter bullet but the velocity difference will create a lot more energy and that will cause a lot more damage given the same terminal distance.


All you're saying is that you can shoot an animal farther out with the big guns - that's not exactly news and that's not the point that I was trying make, in fact, my point is that you don't want to shoot at long range and in most cases you wont be able to - especially if you are a novice hunter out west. But I was comparing how the two cartridges perform at short range.

If you want to compare tissue damage then you need to compare the weapons to each other in the same frame of reference in regards to terminal circumstances. Comparing the performance of one cartridge at long range to another cartridge at short range only demonstrates that the magnum does the same work at longer range - that's pretty obvious. I thought that it was just as obvious that I don't agree with the long shots so I'm comparing the meat damage done at close range. Compare the amount of bullet energy at 100 yards for a .300 Win Mag to the 30-06 (3400 ft lbs vs. 2700 ft lbs), that's a pretty substantial difference, and it should be obvious that the .300 will damage a lot more meat, even if you use a solid copper bullet.
 
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The other new fad I don't get in addition to the magnums is to have a short action, like a .300 WSM. Anybody miss an animal because the follow-up shot was with a long action?
 
The other new fad I don't get in addition to the magnums is to have a short action, like a .300 WSM. Anybody miss an animal because the follow-up shot was with a long action?
I have shot several animals with the 300 WSM. Lately the 243 has done the honors. A 270 has probably taken more deer for me than any other caliber. Even took several deer with a contender pistol and a couple of revolvers. To be honest, I haven't needed a follow up shot from any of them for several years.

If you do your part with a proper bullet the caliber is moot.
 
I have a friend who's convinced that his .300 WSM is just a powerful as a .300 Win Mag without the recoil - I didn't feel the difference but you can't convince him that there doesn't seem to be any real difference, nor that it's moot point because he doesn't really need either magnum.
 
I have a friend who's convinced that his .300 WSM is just a powerful as a .300 Win Mag without the recoil - I didn't feel the difference but you can't convince him that there doesn't seem to be any real difference, nor that it's moot point because he doesn't really need either magnum.
You are correct, a rifle recoil table I just checked had the .300 Win. Mag. and .300 WSM both at about 27 foot pounds of recoil energy, the .30-'06 was at 20, with the 150 gr. at 17.6. Has anyone here ever shot an elk with any .30-'06 bullet weight in the kill zone and had it get away?

A pretty knowledgeable gunsmith I know once had a customer who was going to Alaska on a brown bear hunt, of course everyone was telling him to get a giant magnum. On the advice of the gunsmith he used his .30-'06, the result was one shot, one dead brown bear. More proof that the .30-'06 is enough for any animal in North America.

Another problem with magnums is due to the severe recoil guys often put a muzzle brake on them, one such shot without hearing protection can permanently harm your hearing. No animal is worth that.
 
A properly designed brake wont cause the shooter to perceive any louder noise, the guy standing next to the shooter will most likely take a big hit though. If the brake is designed properly it will direct the shock wave at angle from the bore but not straight back toward the shooter.
 
I believe any angle other than straight forward from the barrel will be louder.
 
My advice is regardless which caliber you choose, take it to a place that you can practice 500 yard shots, then practice A LOT of 500 yard shots.

You'll be better when the moment of truth comes and you'll be in better shape for having walked that 500 yards multiple times to check your target.

You'll also have an appreciation for just how far 500 yards is and how little room for error it leaves you
 
I use a .30-06. My Brother uses a 300 WM and makes light loads for antelope. My cousin uses a .243 and he has taken his elk every year.
 
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