Long range hunting ?

[H&Hhunter]

I'd like to post a question to our members.

I've hunted a bit and I've bagged a number of critters over the years.

The majority of my NA big game hunting has been done in the western states primarily New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and Alaska. I've hunted some of the species that folks tend to claim a need for long range gear, to include elk, pronghorn and sheep. I've killed upwards of 20 elk, as an educated guess I don't keep count, and at least 6 or 7 pronghorn. I've also hunted mule deer in all kinds of terrain from desert to high mountain and most of the stuff in between.

I've seldom found the need to shoot at anything past 300 yards and very seldom have I ever taken a shot at a game big game animal at over 400 yards and I mean like twice that I can think of at the moment.

So here is my question.

Is it ever REALLY necessary to take a shot beyond 400 yards?

I know guys who do it and shouldn't be doing it, I know guys who do it and are capable of making long range shots but they are a rare and disciplined breed using specialized equipment.

It seems to me that some guys want to take long shots just because they want to. In fact they are looking for a long range shot and would rather try it for the challenge or to prove the worth of their caliber/rifle.

But in real life hunting conditions is it really necessary to have a rifle set up to shoot beyond 400 yards? By this I mean target turrets and a ballistic chart.

I can think of very few times that if the desire was there that you couldn't sneak to within 400 and usually much closer. After all we are hunters right?

I'd really like to hear from some of you sheep and Mt Goat nuts. This seems to be one of the places that we hear about long range feats quite often.

 

[Harve Curry]

When I was in my 20's and had been shooting the only rifle I had, at alot of Siliouttes & 500 meter rams. I was proficient with that rifle. That year I shot a coues deer down a mountain slope at 625 yards that I thought was 500 yards. I had a rest and a minute to think about the shot.

It was a thrill to make that shot and I had climbed alot of high long peaks on those hunts. After that, hunting became more fun for me to see how close I could get and use iron sights and old rifle/cartridges. Guiding bow hunters was a big learning experience for me stalking within a few feet of bulls and cows, Wow.

I have met handi cap hunters who can benefit from a long range shot . One especially who surprised himself when he shot his 6x6 bull elk in bed with his muzzleloader at a measured 306 yards. The hunter could not have gotten any closer. We had practiced out to 300 yards the whole day before and had good groups at 100, 200, 300 yards with drops noted on a card taped to his rifle. A 50 cal inline with a 150 grains a powder is effective at 300 yards if you do your range practice in advance.

I think a long range shot has it's place, provide the hunter has done his range work and not depending on others ballistics charts.

 

[1911NM]

Always have to qualify any conversations about long shots by saying I am older'n dirt. Hunted most of my life in Colorado and New Mexico. In the oak brush ridges of NW Colorado, most shots were relatively long as I would have to look over into the oak brush from another ridge, but I can say I never tried a shot over 300 yards with the exception of prairie dog hunting with a varmit rifle.

 

[Rembrandt]

H&H, I'd agree that most hunting shots are usually 300 yards or less...longer distances are rarely needed. The only reason I could see myself making one longer is if the terrain (vast open area) and game didn't present an opportunity to get closer.....even then one would need to be proficient and know their capabilities.

Prairie dogs are a little different, I've taken those out to 500-600 yards...but it was more like an experimentation in aiming artillary.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Necessary" seems to me to be uncommon. It seems to me that the terrain would be the controlling factor. E.g., a canyon between you and SuperElk.

I've been mostly a deer hunter. I've hunted a lot of wide-open country. It was rare, however, for me to ever need to take a shot beyond one or two hundred yards. "Rare" includes one buck at 350 and one at 450--but that's all.

I dunno. To me, the deal is to be all married up to some pet rifle so it doesn't matter if they're close in or way off. You work on your skill level so that, "If I can see it, I own it."

But closer is better...

 

[MCgunner]

I've been in positions in NM where I COULD have taken shots way out there at 600 or whatever, but I'm not a long distance rifleman and see such a situation as an opportunity to stalk, which really gets the ol' adrenalin pumping. I like to plan and try to execute a stalk. I'm not there to prove my marksmanship abilities. I could do that at a range, would just get into silhouette shooting if that was what I was into. I have to sit in a stand and watch a feeder when I hunt at home. I'm about spot and stalk when I get out to God's country. What has been more common to me is to kick up a bedded buck up close and shoot on the run at close range. A good shot at running game gives me more pride than taking a 600 yard shot off a rest at a standing animal. I've shot a few this way, kicked up out of bed not over 75 yards.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Great responses guys I am enjoying reading them.

Harve, you've got some real valid points about Handicap hunters! Thanks.

Art, it is definitely a heck of an accomplishment to be able to own it if you see it. But I find a lot more guys simply but a down payment on it rather than own it at long range.

MCGunner, I am also all about the stalk.

 

[eliphalet]

I have shot dozens and dozens of American big game, only twice have I shot at over 300 yards. One shot maybe should not have been taken even though successfully, as it was opening morning of antelope season. The other was after a several hour stalk, the shot taken was across two small canyons and impossible to get any closer. I was rested with a good rifle rest and had plenty or recent practice. Being it was the last day of season played into it too. In neither case did I have a range finder as back then I don't think they existed for the general public. I guessed from the bullet drop the deer was at about the 350 yard range and the antelope was a measured 632 and was a lucky shot.

There are folks that will and do spend the time and effort to become proficient at "long range" shots but they are few and far between. The rest of us should become better hunters and not shoot at things past our proven and very practiced abilities.

 

[TexasBen317]

I can’t claim any big game long shots, but was out on our lease in west Texas for white tail with my brother as witness. We had just dropped off a small hill/ridge when I spotted a couple does take off slightly downhill near a stand of small cedar trees. They moved off a bit and stopped and looked back and went back to grazing. Told my brother to sit down and we did. Pulled out my binoculars and scoped the area where they had been.. Finally saw a nice little buck just grazing in the cedar trees..

Shooting my Remington 742 BDL 30-06 semi auto with 150 gr factory load.. Hollow point core lock open sights, ( I could still see with out glasses at that young age.)

I lined up just above his shoulder about a foot and squeezed a shot off.. He stumbled and then took off to our left behind a stand of small trees. Told brother to watch him with the glasses, but he lost him.

We waited it seemed like an hour, but more like 20 minutes and slowly walked down where he had turned in behind the cedar trees.. I refuse to lose a wounded animal and was bound and determined to find him,, I knew he was wounded since he had stumbled when he took off..

He was laying down like he was resting with his head down breathing rough.. One close range shot to the head and he was done.. Dressed out nice and we were able to find the bullet entry hole between his 4 and 5th rib.with no exit hole. That hollow point had opened up and turned his insides to mush…when he took off running he must have been moving on pure fright and would have suffered badly.

We went back and stepped off the distance. We are both tall and wear 36 in jeans at the time.. I counted 384 paces so at 3 foot a pace , ,so about 384 yards with one shot.. Best I ever done.

 

[moosehunt]

I pretty much agree with Mr. H&Hhunter--400 yards is an ethical limit for most. I shot an elk once at about 650 or 700. It was years ago and I've passed a lot of similar and shorter shots since, even though I did get the long one--in the neck, which is what I was shooting for. I held 2+ ft high the first shot, missed, held 3+ ft high the second shot. But, I don't condone it, won't do it again. If one considers the accuracy of most hunting rifles, it's about 1.5 moa. Oh, I know, all kinds of guys are going to scream "mine is .75 moa" etc., etc. Funny how rare it is to actually see one that truly is even 1.0 moa when it comes demonstration time. Anyway, at 1.5 moa, that means that at 400 yrd (actually 400 meters) the gun will group 6"--that is with absolutely no wind, 0 slope, ambient temperature from a 100% solid rest. It is rare that any of the 4, let alone all of them, are present at the time of a hunting shot. Do a little figuring adding in that usually we don't know exact distance (I know, sometimes we do with range finders) and to me it becomes pretty apparent why 400 yds is an ethical limit for most. Actually, I've taken to hunting more and more with a muzzleloader which gives me an absolute max range of 80 yards and having fun--don't kill as much, but a lot of fun. Last time I chased Pronghorn was with an old .25-35 Win, again max range about 80, maybeso 100 yards. I didn't get one, but had a grin trying to get close enough. Sadly though, we'll never get it through a lot of heads that having a magnum doesn't equate to having a lazer beam. Preaching to the choir I suppose, as I doubt many, if any, reading this are the type that wham away at unethical range. The ones that need to learn won't read it!

 

[32winspl]

Wow. For the places I hunt, 75 yards is a lengthy shot. There are a couple of area's where I MIGHT be able to see 150 yds, but I don't go there much as I've so seldom seen deer there during the off season.

 

[Art Eatman]

True words: "A man's gotta know his limitations."

For me, anything much over 300 yards and I'll pass the shot. But, that said, if I see Super Biggie out beyond that: IF I can find a good rest, and IF the wind isn't a real problem, and IF I'm pretty confident of the distance, it's a different story. And, even then, I gotta have that Zen thing working for me. The "feeling".

 

[BAT1]

In trying not to wound one, chasing it and losing it, I would pass on the shot.

 

[Win75]

I hunt in northern Missouri and most of my shots are 100 yards or less. I would not try a shot of more than 300 yards. My gun club has a target block at 300 and for me, that is a pretty good stretch.

 

[Harve Curry]

I went for a morning walk behind my house about 4 miles today. Took my range finder. I saw 5 deer and two were bucks. I ranged them out to 335 yards across rolling hills and some steep hills. 100 yards is close and you would likely have to stalk for it. Usually cover is cedars, oaks, 20 to 50 yards apart.

 

[41 Mag]

In 30+ years of hunting I have pretty much run the course of ranges with my firearms. I have taken deer and hogs proficiently out to 400+ yds using several rifles and with handguns out to 280yds. While I agree that for most folks these might seem extreme I do not head out in the morning planning on making the shots. I do however head out many times through out the year planning on making shots out to ranges which both challenge my abilities and that of my equipment, wether that be 50yds or 500yds.

I shoot enough through the year that I generally know the ballistics of most all of the arms I take to the field. This allows me to be ready for circumstances that might present a once in a lifetime trophy and no way to close the gap.

Most of my hunting is done in terrain that sometimes even a powder burn is a possibility, however in getting to and from I also travel across wide open country which could also offer a shot out to past a mile should I want to take it. THis is flat wide open country with nothing sticking up but the plowed dirt clods. The deer in this area however, have no problem strolling across at all hours of the day getting from one patch of woods to another. The hogs travel it as well at times even during mid day. So at any given time something could present a choice of to shoot or not to shoot. THe current conditions and range will determin for me what the outcome will be.

I have many times seen folks who harp on long range hunters as shooters and not hunters only to see these same bunch at the range working hard to make a group at 100 yards. I personally will not hunt any game with a rifle until I can consistantly shoot it into 1" or less groups, preferrably less, at 100yds or more. I generally work the loads until they will do this at 200yd. Yea I shoot a lot more than some but then again I have my own self imposed guidelines. And yes even if most don't believe it, a factory off the shelf rifle will group at or under 1" at 200yds with work and the ability of the shooter. I only have two custom rifles, one will groups around 2" or so at 500yds and the other hasn't had a round through it yet. The rest all factory, I have tweaked the loads on until I was satisfied with them and their performance.

Bottom line is no matter where you draw the line, there are as many or more hunters making bad shots under 200yds as there are looking to make a hail mary shot over that. To me an 8" pie plate does not equate into a dead deer every time a many would lead folks to believe.

 

[skinewmexico]

Everyone takes some shots they probably shouldn't when they start out. I think turning those really long shots down later just shows you're starting to grow up. Unless you practice those shots year round, and have some ability.

 

[coelacanth]

a "beanfield rifle" is a pretty handy thing . . . . .

to have around the farm when you're trying to save your soybeans. Something like a 25.06 with a long barrel and a nice glass up top for the occasional whitetail problem. Shots across soybean fields can easily reach the 400 yard range. I don't condone 400 yard hunting shots as a rule but the wheel of a John Deere combine makes a pretty solid rest. That said, most hunters in the field are possessed of neither the equipment or the skill to cleanly take animals at that range. Tracking a wounded animal is no fun for either you or the animal and should be avoided if at all possible so shot placement is the key. Use your binoculars, your boots and your brain and you can almost always get a closer, better shot.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Its not necessary...its not ethical...unless you are hungry and need food, then all is fair.

I'm an avid long range shooter...but I only hunt varmints at any range beyond 300 yards...deer and other big game animals deserve a fighting chance, they have no chance against a seasoned shooter with a high powered target rifle. No chance at all.

 

[bigcim]

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[eliphalet]

"all right now you hit that one my boy"

Hit yes but the deer ran off didn't it?
I can't use the words I would like and stay High Road about that second shot and probably dozens of others we don't' see in their video's.
I tend to have admiration and a bit of aw some of the long range shooters here on this board, At their practice and skill shooting but to shoot critters at 890 yards just to do it, for no special reason at all? I donno but I kinda think I would jerk his hunting license, he wouldn't;'t like me much if I was around and told em what I really thought after that shot.
That isn't hunting, it's live targets at a distance that shouldn't be done just to DO it, is unnecessary and uncalled for.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

That was a good hit on that second deer...you can see the bullet splitting the fog if you watch close...I'd bet he didn't go far.
I still don't condone practicing on live targets at that distance...but those 2 guys are pretty good.

 

[bigcim]

I tried to figure out what caliber is being fired

 

[kir_kenix]

i agree with h&h. i dont like taking long shots just for the sake of a long shot.

i have taken one deer at just a smidge over 400 yards the last day of the season. i knew the exact distance (my secluded drive length), the wind was calm, the little buck stayed put, and hell...to be honest i was cold. i would not take that shot again.

i like to think that the closer shots actually require more skill and are of greater accomplishments then the long, long one. i personally get more out of an hour stock that ends w/ a 30 yard levergun shot then i do out of the 175 yd shot out of a treestand. someone elses priorities may vary.

i know my skill level, and it does not permit me to take 500 yard shots of living animals from field positions (excepting varmints). i HATE tracking wounded animals, and it makes it all the harder when the shot is close to a quarter mile away to find the blood trail...

we hear an awful lot about hunters taking 600 yard deer shots (with a straight factory rifle, using a cheap 3-9, with less then premium ammo, that groups .2 only when no one is around), but i dont think this is the reality of it. ive got a buddy who tells tales of shooting his buck at 700 yards, but when pressed he couldnt tell me the drop of his .270, or even the load. this leads me to believe that hes either greatly exagerated the distance, or is darn darn lucky (not likely).

i see no reason to pump myself up by taking a risky shot that i know i am not 100% capable of making.

 

[Harve Curry]

I watched the video and I don't think you could call it long range hunting . It is long range shooting and well done. Those guys are set up on benches and have undoubtably proved out their equipments on paper beforehand. They have a place to shoot where they know game is going to show up. I'm sure they go down and get the meat, good for them.