What Are Your Thoughts on SA Revolvers?

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Don't cherry-pick and leave out very important aspects of the post.

Cooldill said:
If someone thinks a old single action isn't useful for self defense, then they haven't been to a SASS or CAS match. Them pards can shoot there singles damn near fast as any average man with a Glock, and reload so fast you'd think they'd drawn another piece.

Truth is, by a man that KNOWS HOW TO USE ONE, a good single gives absolutely nothing to any modern handgun. They are an experts gun, a shootist's gun. Those that balk at them are simply incompetent in there use.

Many high profile members here, such as Bob Wright, carry singles. I dare any of you to question him. These folks know how to run a single. A more reliable or accurate pistol is hard to come by. They are stone age simple, and oft come chamber in such manstoppers as the .357 Smith's & Wesson's Magnum and Colt's 45 Long.
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Those points do not change a thing. They do not make the claim true. Even for an expert, the SA gives away many advantages.
 
ATLDave said:
^ This is the valid argument in favor of SA's for self-defense. Nobody would rationally select one for self-defense if they were starting with a blank slate and no preferences and only self-defense as the goal. That would be crazy.

However, people aren't deciding in a vacuum. Some people have a strong preference for SA's for some other (perfectly valid) reasons. For those people, using the SA for self-defense is familiar, and they'll willingly devote time to developing a high level of skill. Since that will be enough the vast majority of the time, that's sensible. That doesn't mean that the SA "gives nothing away," which is simply false.

But a SA is significantly better than a sharp stick. And most of the time you don't even really need a stick. So it's gonna be fine the overwhelming majority of the time.
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I mean, if I end up getting one of those little mini-revolvers, I could see it being carried, because that's what it's for. But I don't see myself carrying a big revolver of any action any more than I see myself carrying my 1911 around...there's just no reason to carry a heavy metal gun when I have a polymer gun next to it that's a quarter of the mass and size.

I'm pretty much looking for an affordable fun SA gun, with ammo that's cheap enough to shoot a lot of, that doesn't break the bank and that doesn't cost a lot. 22, 22 Mag, maybe 38/357.
 
And if you like heavy, metal guns, there are heavy, metal guns that can be run faster and reloaded faster.
 
ATLDave said:
And if you like heavy, metal guns, there are heavy, metal guns that can be run faster and reloaded faster.
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That niche is covered by the 1911 lol. If I need more than 21 rounds (3 loaded mags) of 45ACP hollowpoints, I'm probably fighting a Terminator and need to seriously evaluate what I am doing in life.

My 380 is a perfectly adequate carry piece, IMO; I don't go into the world expecting to get in gunfights and if I did I'd tote around a Glock or something similar. That's an option, but I don't really enjoy shooting autoloaders as much as I do revolvers.
 
So, back to the original post. Yes a Heritage Rough Rider, while inexpensive, can be a fun little .22. I have two of them, one has a long barrel and works OK for small game and pests, and the other has a birds head grip and 3.5 inch barrel which makes it handy to stick in a pocket, etc. They are cheaper but seem to be well enough made to handle being dropped, a bit of rain, being left in the ATV pocket or down at the barn. Get one and see how much fun they can be, for a smaller investment.

On the carry topic, I carry all the time, every day. Usually a Smith or Rossi snubby, or a Ruger LC9. I also have a 3.5 inch barrel, birds head grip, Beretta Stampede in .45 Colt. It;s a really pretty, slick, revolver. While it's a bit heaver then any of the five shot revolvers I usually carry, it caries comfortably with the right holster and I would never feel under gunned with it in either hand. I am pretty sure that when the time comes that I really need a gun for "social work" 6 shots (yes the Stampede has a transfer bar safety) will be enough. And if I ever really expect to go to war again I will grab my trusty 1911 or Hi Power, or really my M16A1, and have enough fire power.
 
ATLDave said:
Those points do not change a thing. They do not make the claim true. Even for an expert, the SA gives away many advantages.
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They change everything. How can you agree with my post but rake Cooldill over the coals for saying the same thing?

Not if you've spent 100hrs with SA's for every hour with autos. If any at all.

If most gunfights are over in 2-3 shots fired, then how is the auto's capacity or reload speed an advantage? If one can make 5-6 accurate hits just as fast with an SA revolver as a semi-auto, then how is the auto's rate of fire an advantage?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...hought-about-da-sa-speed.755013/#post-9520330

 
Craig, you didn't say the same thing.

" If one can make 5-6 accurate hits just as fast with an SA revolver as a semi-auto, then how is the auto's rate of fire an advantage? "

One cannot, given similar skill levels.

If your claim is that an expert SA gunner is better than a novice with a Glock or 1911 or S&W wheelie, sure. That expert will beat a baby, even if the baby has a belt-fed machine gun. Who cares? The claim was that the SA "gives nothing away." It gives lots away. Even over the first 2-3 shots.

I think many people who don't do the kind of shooting that emphasizes a combination of speed and accuracy simply do not know what kind of speed is readily available from more modern platforms.

Please note that my prior post listed some examples of more modest claims that I would have no trouble believing.
 
We said the exact same thing. You just read into it what you wanted to, to have something to argue about.

Why are similar skill levels a given? They are not a given. That's kinda the point. We're back to context. I said, as Cooldill said, that for those of us who spend way more time with SA's than autos, the SA "gives up nothing" to a DA or semi-auto.

When gang-bangers start competing in IPSC I'll start worrying about "similar skill levels".


ATLDave said:
I think many people who don't do the kind of shooting that emphasizes a combination of speed and accuracy simply do not know what kind of speed is readily available from more modern platforms.
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Perception is everything. I think some people have a limited frame of reference and impose their limitations onto others.

The question here is, how much time have YOU spent developing skill with the single action to be making such absolute statements with regards to their use in a defensive role?
 
I have spent very little time with the SA. I can, however, watch videos of skilled SA shooters. I can also observe their performance/presence in various competitive shooting disciplines.

"Why are similar skill levels a given?"

Because otherwise the claim, instead of being wrong, is trivial (in the logical/mathematical sense). Obviously a competent person is superior to an incompetent person. The claim was about the SA itself giving nothing away. Yes, a person skilled with an SA can be adequately skilled for most SD purposes. That's a different claim, and one that is reasonable. No problem there. The problem is saying that the SA "gives nothing away." It most certainly does. A shooter can work their tails off and get back some of what it gives... or they could start further along with a more modern design and end up further ahead after working their tails off.

Agree or disagree: When it comes to auto racing, a Ford Focus gives nothing away to a Porsche 911. Feel free to add language that says "In the hands of an expert" to the beginning of that statement if you wish.
 
Okay, a skilled person can fire a SA revolver very quickly,,,
I've been to enough SASS shoots to see that.

But what if you can't use both hands?

I grew up shooting a Colt Frontier Scout,,,
Honestly, when I was 14 years old I had "gunslinger" skills.

But all speed went away if I tried shooting it with one hand,,,
Without the left hand cocking the hammer,,,
It was much slower that a DA revolver.

Reloading is another factor though,,,
SASS shooters don't do "fast" reloads at all.

Due to their practice they do "faster" reloads than other shooters,,,
But it's still nothing I would call "fast".

I believe that people who carry an SA for self defense,,,
Are doing it purely because they want to.

That's as valid a reason as there is to be able to do something,,,
I just can't understand why they even try to justify it as anything other than their personal preference.

Aarond

.
 
aarondhgraham said:
But what if you can't use both hands?
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For me, that's a difference of 1.5secs versus 2.6secs.


@ATLDave, Context, context, context. Not hypothetical "what-ifs". You're still cherry-picking. Again, the context is in the hands of a skilled SA shooter who has spent far more time with SA's than anything else. No what-if nonsense about spending the same amount of time with another platform. That's a hypothetical and out of context. If you want to compare two shooters who have spent equal time on two or three different platforms, that's a different argument.

Again, if most gun fights are over with in 2-3 shots, how is capacity greater than six an advantage? Or reload speed?

Again, if I can make 5-6 well placed shots in 1.5secs then what advantage do I gain with the semi-auto, that I happen to carry regularly?

The car analogy is not a very good one. I'll give a better one. If 99.99% of racing was done on a quarter mile dragstrip, what good does a car with a 200mph top speed to if it takes a mile to get there?


ATLDave said:
I have spent very little time with the SA.
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No kidding.

Do you really think you are in a better position to judge what tool I am best armed with?
 
OP get a 22 SA and have fun. My first 22 was a Ruger Single Six and I still use it today. I actually hunt rabbits and squirrels with it. When the grandchildren come to the range the old SA is their favorite gun to shoot.
 
Craig, of course you are in the better position to judge what YOU are best served with. I feel like you continue to misunderstand my point. I took issue with a very specific claim.
 
I know but you took that claim out of its proper context, as if that statement were made as an absolute, all by itself. It wasn't.
 
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Rocketmedic said:
How well do Rough Riders told up? I don't really want to spend hundreds more on a Single Six
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If you wear one out, you will have gotten more than your money's worth out of it. They hold up fine. They just aren't as pretty as the Rugers.
 
I had two Heritage .22 revolvers. One was good, the other not good. Don't have either of them anymore. I really like the Ruger single sixes, Blackhawks, and Super Blackhawk.

For .22, I would recommend the Ruger single six convertable, the Bearcat, or the Single 10. They do cost more but they will last a lifetime.
 
I have almost pulled the trigger on a bearcat about 5 times. I don't shoot much .22 due to it being not as much fun at the indoor range I go to (you can't make a soda can dance, etc) and it was so hard to come by for so long I just sort of gave it up.

The little bearcat would make for a lovely woods gun. Handy, light, and well made. If I could do more fun plinking, if buy one in a heartbeat.
 
Well, I've refrained from adding more gasoline on the fire since we seem to be getting nowhere.

I grew up shooting single action with the double action revolver. The NRA bullseye matches had slow fire, timed fire, and rapid fire phases. Nearly all target shooters then used the revolver, either the K- Series Smith & Wesson, or the Colt Officers Model series. Each stage was fired standing, one handed, with a revolver meeting certain specifications, and the specifications were very similar for the USRA matches. When I got into the Single Action revolver, one handed cocking was normal to me and continues to do so except for very deliberate long range shots. I don't know the time, as I've never been timed, but using the Single Action, my gun fires a succeeding shot when the sights come back on target, same as with an autoloading pistol.

As to what the revolver gives way to the auto pistol, two "advantages:"

1. The auto is faster to reload
2. The auto holds more cartridges

Beyond these two points, the playing field is leveled so far as the gun is concerned.

Bob Wright
 
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Fiv3r said:
I have almost pulled the trigger on a bearcat about 5 times. I don't shoot much .22 due to it being not as much fun at the indoor range I go to (you can't make a soda can dance, etc) and it was so hard to come by for so long I just sort of gave it up.

The little bearcat would make for a lovely woods gun. Handy, light, and well made. If I could do more fun plinking, if buy one in a heartbeat.
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I have always kind of liked the Bearcat, too. I used to be put off by the modern-day price of one, but nowadays it doesn't bother me quite as much.

I think the gun might work for me since I have small hands. People with larger hands seem to like to "Single" series better.


If I see a good deal on one, I might bring it home. Especially now that .22LR is back and all. Would make a good little plinker and kit gun, I think.
 
aarondhgraham said:
quickly,,,

I believe that people who carry an SA for self defense,,,
Are doing it purely because they want to.

That's as valid a reason as there is to be able to do something,,,
I just can't understand why they even try to justify it as anything other than their personal preference.

Aarond

.
Click to expand...

I believe that people who carry an double action revolver for self defense,,,
Are doing it purely because they want to.

I believe that people who carry an autoloading pistol for self defense,,,
Are doing it purely because they want to.

That's as valid a reason as there is to be able to do something,,,
I just can't understand why they even try to justify it as anything other than their personal preference.

Yes, I carry a Single Action because I want to, and feel perfectly comfortable in doing so.


Bob Wright
 
BobWright said:
I believe that people who carry an double action revolver for self defense,,,
Are doing it purely because they want to.

I believe that people who carry an autoloading pistol for self defense,,,
Are doing it purely because they want to.

That's as valid a reason as there is to be able to do something,,,
I just can't understand why they even try to justify it as anything other than their personal preference.

Yes, I carry a Single Action because I want to, and feel perfectly comfortable in doing so.


Bob Wright
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Nicely done sir! One of the dinner table civics lessons I had was the simple phrase... The hardest part of living in a free society is the duty to allow others to do things you don't particularly approve of. I envy your serenity.
 
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