My wife's ex-boss lives up at Lake Tahoe, he said he was looking out his front window one day and his neighbor was walking her poodle. It was winter and a wolf came out of the trees and snatched up the dog and never broke a stride. All the lady could do was stand there and watch the wolf run away. It's almost funny in a sick kind of way.
What Caliber For A Wolf Pack?
- Thread starter Cosmoline
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Roswell 1847
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/14/HOGCRGL75U1.DTL
In this article about a fatal wolf attack the author says he'd found records of 27 non fatal attacks.
The treehuggers go balistic whenever a wolf is implicated in an attack on humans because of the perception that this will ignite a massive wolf hunt.
There are recorded cases in France of massive wolf extermination hunts after a number of people were killed by what could have been nothing other than a wolf, the Movie "Brotherhood of the Wolf" not withstanding.
A couple of years ago when a woman was describing a near fatal attack on a child she hurried said "it must have been half dog because wolves never attack people".
Wolves don't normally hunt man for a number of reasons. Top of the list is that Primates of any sort are not native to this continent, another is that Omnivores are the Wolve's most dangerous competitor. We smell just enough like a bear, due to our diet,to set off a warning signal.
Wolves are also very unlikely to encounter an un armed man in the forests. Even nature photographers carry enough odd smelling metalic objects to trigger a warning to stay away. Wolves don't like metal, it spells danger.
When a man is far enough from civilization to fall prey to a hungry wolf pack, all thats left is red snow if that.
Reports of finds of human remains after a Wolf feeding frensey have at most consisted of the gnawed skull and occasionally the entrails, with no bones or bone fragments left to show tooth marks.
That said, wolves are highly unlikely to attack an armed, healthy, confident man.
Dogs aren't particularly interested in killing people either, the difference is you are hundreds of thousands of times more likely to encounter a dog in day to day activities than you are to encounter a wolf.
PS
The mass wolf attacks of Medieval times have been blamed on the wars of the day. Wolves that fed on corpses soon found that a greiviously wounded man was easy prey. They then developed a taste for easy kills and graduated to unarmed peasants.
Its said they even invaded Paris by traveling through the sewer opening on the frozen Seine River and broke into churches by finding openings in under ground crypts.
In this article about a fatal wolf attack the author says he'd found records of 27 non fatal attacks.
The treehuggers go balistic whenever a wolf is implicated in an attack on humans because of the perception that this will ignite a massive wolf hunt.
There are recorded cases in France of massive wolf extermination hunts after a number of people were killed by what could have been nothing other than a wolf, the Movie "Brotherhood of the Wolf" not withstanding.
A couple of years ago when a woman was describing a near fatal attack on a child she hurried said "it must have been half dog because wolves never attack people".
Wolves don't normally hunt man for a number of reasons. Top of the list is that Primates of any sort are not native to this continent, another is that Omnivores are the Wolve's most dangerous competitor. We smell just enough like a bear, due to our diet,to set off a warning signal.
Wolves are also very unlikely to encounter an un armed man in the forests. Even nature photographers carry enough odd smelling metalic objects to trigger a warning to stay away. Wolves don't like metal, it spells danger.
When a man is far enough from civilization to fall prey to a hungry wolf pack, all thats left is red snow if that.
Reports of finds of human remains after a Wolf feeding frensey have at most consisted of the gnawed skull and occasionally the entrails, with no bones or bone fragments left to show tooth marks.
That said, wolves are highly unlikely to attack an armed, healthy, confident man.
Dogs aren't particularly interested in killing people either, the difference is you are hundreds of thousands of times more likely to encounter a dog in day to day activities than you are to encounter a wolf.
PS
The mass wolf attacks of Medieval times have been blamed on the wars of the day. Wolves that fed on corpses soon found that a greiviously wounded man was easy prey. They then developed a taste for easy kills and graduated to unarmed peasants.
Its said they even invaded Paris by traveling through the sewer opening on the frozen Seine River and broke into churches by finding openings in under ground crypts.
frogomatic
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If it was me, I'd take my PS90. Light, maneuverable, 50 rnd mags, plenty potent to kill a wolf, non-magnified reticle makes for quick target aquistion while keeping both eyes open, and recoil is non-existant making it easier to stay on target for multiple shots.
strangelittleman
Member
This is way off topic but bear with me.
This thread is very interesting in that it has grown so fast today. It seems that the timeless ( and not unfounded) fear of wolves (perhaps encoded in our genes) is alive and well. I have found that in most every organized society from ancient China, all of Europe, (especially Russia, where the wolf is nearly the exclusive symbol of evil/the enemy of the rural peasant), to the native American peoples, that the wolf is to be feared above all others in nature. It has lead to some of the most enduring folklore in the history of man ( Little red riding hood, Peter and the wolf and so many more harsh stories). When I was a child & teen, I had often wondered why the older generations talked of "Having the wolf at the door" when talking of the great depression, WW2 and other times of extraordinary strife, both manmade and natural. The relationship of fear, man and wolf is most interesting and sometimes very telling of the times and perceived threats/feelings of coming war, famine and general upheaval that many people will have independant of each other. There is historical precedence of this phenomenon time after time.
This thread is very interesting in that it has grown so fast today. It seems that the timeless ( and not unfounded) fear of wolves (perhaps encoded in our genes) is alive and well. I have found that in most every organized society from ancient China, all of Europe, (especially Russia, where the wolf is nearly the exclusive symbol of evil/the enemy of the rural peasant), to the native American peoples, that the wolf is to be feared above all others in nature. It has lead to some of the most enduring folklore in the history of man ( Little red riding hood, Peter and the wolf and so many more harsh stories). When I was a child & teen, I had often wondered why the older generations talked of "Having the wolf at the door" when talking of the great depression, WW2 and other times of extraordinary strife, both manmade and natural. The relationship of fear, man and wolf is most interesting and sometimes very telling of the times and perceived threats/feelings of coming war, famine and general upheaval that many people will have independant of each other. There is historical precedence of this phenomenon time after time.
Sir Aardvark
Member
Hi-Cap and easy reload...
I would go for a folding stock AK-47 in 7.62x39.
Of course, though, it might be tough to get a longarm into action quick enough to be decisive - so that would bring you back into the realm of pistols.
Maybe something in .45ACP - lots of stopping power and enough penetration for a wolf (not for a bear, though), and not too much recoil, unlike a .480 or .500 mag.
A shotgun might be a good option, but I have no idea how big a wolf pack usually is. If it numbers about 7-8 members, then a shotgun would be great - and with slugs it would also work for bears.
I would go for a folding stock AK-47 in 7.62x39.
Of course, though, it might be tough to get a longarm into action quick enough to be decisive - so that would bring you back into the realm of pistols.
Maybe something in .45ACP - lots of stopping power and enough penetration for a wolf (not for a bear, though), and not too much recoil, unlike a .480 or .500 mag.
A shotgun might be a good option, but I have no idea how big a wolf pack usually is. If it numbers about 7-8 members, then a shotgun would be great - and with slugs it would also work for bears.
mgregg85
Member
buckshot+12 guage shotgun=what I would use along with carrying my XD45. Could even carry some bearspray as a last resort, might stop the wolves.
Lurp
Member
.50cal BMG 
All kidding aside I like atblis suggestion with a 12ga. with as short a barrell as legally allowed and an extended tube. I think that 9 rounds of 00 should put any wolf pack down. Isn't a pellet from a 12ga. 00 the same size as a ball 9mm round, which would make it just as effective if not more since your letting go multiple 9mm rounds per shot. With any kind of fast moving semi-close range I would take a shotgun over a rifle any day.
All kidding aside I like atblis suggestion with a 12ga. with as short a barrell as legally allowed and an extended tube. I think that 9 rounds of 00 should put any wolf pack down. Isn't a pellet from a 12ga. 00 the same size as a ball 9mm round, which would make it just as effective if not more since your letting go multiple 9mm rounds per shot. With any kind of fast moving semi-close range I would take a shotgun over a rifle any day.
atblis
Member
Yeah
I wasn't the first to suggest, but my post had pics so...
I was thinking a Saiga might be good too.
I wasn't the first to suggest, but my post had pics so...
I was thinking a Saiga might be good too.
steak-knife
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Along the same train of thought, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned tripping little red riding hood, and then running like heck, while the big bad wolves have a go at her.
On a serious note, your SKS is a fine choice, but leave it in stock form, staying away from any of those hi-cap mags which turn perfectly good firearms into jam-o-matics.
Scanr
Pretty sure that was a coyote that took that dog in Tahoe. There aren't any wolves in California last time I checked.
I've seen some very big coyotes up in the Sierras. Last summer when we were camping up in Mammoth someone’s Akida was killed and eaten by coyotes. That’s not a small dog but the camp host said it happens all the time. People just don't realize that even large dogs will be preyed on by coyotes.
Pretty sure that was a coyote that took that dog in Tahoe.
There aren't any wolves in California last time I checked.I've seen some very big coyotes up in the Sierras. Last summer when we were camping up in Mammoth someone’s Akida was killed and eaten by coyotes. That’s not a small dog but the camp host said it happens all the time. People just don't realize that even large dogs will be preyed on by coyotes.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Nor is an Akida an easy dog to whip. Strong, fast, and fearless...they were bred to work in pairs to take down bears. Don't underestimate even a small pack of Coyotes...and don't take any chances with'em.
Please leave the wolves alone. Carry protection but seriously dont honestly believe that they attack humans. Not one recorded attack, ever. They are very intelligent animals that prefer solitude. Im not excited about shooting them as I wouldnt shoot dogs either (unless seriously threatened).
But whatever puts down a 90-110 animal will put down a wolf. :-/
But whatever puts down a 90-110 animal will put down a wolf. :-/
Roswell 1847
member
Geez, didn't you bother to read the linked story
or even consider the historical references mentioned on this thread.
I don't see anyone here trying to incite a mass wolf extermination program but really now.
This is what I meant by "Meme".
Just as the fallacious claim that there was no record of a missionary being eaten by cannibals grew into the meme that there were no reliable reports of savage tribes indulging in cannibalism, the lack of easily available records on wolf attacks led to the meme that no wolf had ever attacked a man.
The No Cannibals meme bit the dust long ago, its about time people gave up the no wolf attacks fantasy as well.
ryan in maine
Member
Seriously? Something accurate and agile that can move as many bullets as fast as possible as easily as possible.
On a bike? Bear spray and your CCW for back-up.
Just take a 20 minute ride with a rifle on your back and I'd think it'd be too annoying to be venturing far from home with. You could always look into having some custom leather made to mount on your bike like a horse. Ha ha.
On a bike? Bear spray and your CCW for back-up.
Just take a 20 minute ride with a rifle on your back and I'd think it'd be too annoying to be venturing far from home with. You could always look into having some custom leather made to mount on your bike like a horse. Ha ha.
Wolfgang2000
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The reason I said single action don't count is because the reload time is to slow. It had nothing to do with the the power of the cartridge fired.
As I stated previously, I had the experience of getting in the middle of a feral dog pack. This happened in Louisiana when I was a teenager. ( That was much longer ago than I care to admit.) This pack consisted of dog, wolf dog mix, and coyote dog mix. They had no fear of man AT ALL.
Just recently here in MO. a feral dog pack killed a horse, and several other farm animals. You can believe what you want, but when a carnivore is hungry you are part of the food chain. If you find yourself in the middle of a hungry pack of carnivores you are in DEEP trouble.
A SKS will do OK. Put a dot scope on it. I would still prefer a semi auto shotgun, preferable with an auto chamber feature. Ether way practice on your reload. A good handgun backup is a must. A semi auto would be better in this situation. A good double action revolver will work. Get speed loaders and practice the reload.
Treat this as a CQB situation with multiple bad guys.
As I stated previously, I had the experience of getting in the middle of a feral dog pack. This happened in Louisiana when I was a teenager. ( That was much longer ago than I care to admit.) This pack consisted of dog, wolf dog mix, and coyote dog mix. They had no fear of man AT ALL.
Just recently here in MO. a feral dog pack killed a horse, and several other farm animals. You can believe what you want, but when a carnivore is hungry you are part of the food chain. If you find yourself in the middle of a hungry pack of carnivores you are in DEEP trouble.
A SKS will do OK. Put a dot scope on it. I would still prefer a semi auto shotgun, preferable with an auto chamber feature. Ether way practice on your reload. A good handgun backup is a must. A semi auto would be better in this situation. A good double action revolver will work. Get speed loaders and practice the reload.
Treat this as a CQB situation with multiple bad guys.
Roswell 1847
member
Feral dogs have killed people here in Tennessee several times in my memory.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
It's even worse than that. The canids are faster than bad guys...
Slugless
Member
Not pickin' on you here, amprecon, I just noticed that some folks noticed/knew about the paratrooper SKS, some don't.
The paratrooper SKS (SKS-D) is a carbine length (16" bbl) SKS modified to take AK mags. I've got a Norinco Sportster, essentially the same rifle (SKS-M) with a goofy thumbhole stock & no bayonet.
Really no reason to replace a paratrooper SKS with an AK. Augment, maybe.
I replaced the goofy stock on mine with an Fiberforce stock (some modification required).
I put the Williams peep rear and Firesight front sight. Easy to sight in and the fiber optic makes target acquisition fast.
'luck with the wolves. A folding stock would be more convenient, I don't know whether a Paratrooper comes that way or not, I've only seen the Sportsters.
The comments on stray rounds & shotguns are good ones but if you already have an SKS-D...
Hey Cosmo, does yours feed soft points well? I've only run FMJ through mine.
Kimber1911_06238
Member
I'm guessing once you start shooting the wolves aren't gonna stick around. carry whatever you want.
Wolfgang2000
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Slugless, they also made the paratrooper with the fixed 10 rd magazine. I have a couple of them.
The Annoyed Man
Member
I don't know s*** about wolves. There aren't any where I live; but I will say this: My dogs are my friends and and they are members of MY pack. If I am out walking with one or more of them and they are targeted by wolves - EVEN IF I AM NOT PERSONALLY AT RISK - my dogs' loyalty and friendship to me as members of my pack has earned my loyalty to them in return, and I would owe it to them to defend them if attacked. For that reason, if a wolf stalked my dog, I would fire on it with whatever I had handy, and without remorse.
I don't understand the respondents who keep trying to negate the dangers involved in the issue by insisting that humans aren't at risk. If you want to assume that risk for yourselves, go ahead. I wish you luck. BUT... I would not envy your dogs. It doesn't matter whether you view a dog as a pet, or as a working animal. They give you their all. You should stand up for them, even if that means killing what is otherwise a beautiful wild animal. If you can't do that in defense of your dogs, then you don't deserve your dogs.
[Now I've got to duck out for a while because I've probably pissed off about 10 people.]
I don't understand the respondents who keep trying to negate the dangers involved in the issue by insisting that humans aren't at risk. If you want to assume that risk for yourselves, go ahead. I wish you luck. BUT... I would not envy your dogs. It doesn't matter whether you view a dog as a pet, or as a working animal. They give you their all. You should stand up for them, even if that means killing what is otherwise a beautiful wild animal. If you can't do that in defense of your dogs, then you don't deserve your dogs.
[Now I've got to duck out for a while because I've probably pissed off about 10 people.
]Slugless
Member
You mean Wikipedia is sometimes wrong?
Hmm. If it's fixed then amprecon et. al are right. We've done motorbike trials w/ SKS-M + additional hi-cap mags with dust covers. Worked okay but a little awkward. Now trialling an underfolder AK.
A pistol w/chest holster would probably be better, I keep envisioning the carry strap of a rifle getting caught in some brush & pulling you off the bike. Hasn't happened to date.
Thanks for the correction!
Edit - The Annoyed one - there's a woman who sometimes does morning hikes w/her 2 dogs past my Colorado property. I've not had a chance to talk to her but one the first things I'm going to ask her is if she carries a piece. It's lion, bear & yote country and I would pack a piece to protect my dogs. The occasional meth-head is also a worry. The neighborhood has had far more property damage from methheads than from the bears.
Hmm. If it's fixed then amprecon et. al are right. We've done motorbike trials w/ SKS-M + additional hi-cap mags with dust covers. Worked okay but a little awkward. Now trialling an underfolder AK.
A pistol w/chest holster would probably be better, I keep envisioning the carry strap of a rifle getting caught in some brush & pulling you off the bike. Hasn't happened to date.
Thanks for the correction!
Edit - The Annoyed one - there's a woman who sometimes does morning hikes w/her 2 dogs past my Colorado property. I've not had a chance to talk to her but one the first things I'm going to ask her is if she carries a piece. It's lion, bear & yote country and I would pack a piece to protect my dogs. The occasional meth-head is also a worry. The neighborhood has had far more property damage from methheads than from the bears.
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