What did they REALLY carry in the old West?

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ACP,

It wasn't the Pony Express that grabbed up the Schofields, it was Wells Fargo & Co. Express. The Pony Express was defunct by the outbreak of the Civil War.

Wells Fargo bought several hundred that had been surplussed through a wholesaler (probably Hartley & Graham), which had had the barrels cut down to 5".
 
Mr. Irwin,

I'd have to disagree with your quote:

Frequently they didn't carry handguns, either. It's something of a myth that cowboys were always armed and always in the saddle.

When you're slinging a rope and herding cattle, especially during branding, the LAST thing you wanted on your belt was a gun. A rope with the other end of it around a cow gets caught on your gun and it can snap you right out of the saddle.
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If anybody has ever handled cattle that have been on the range, not hand fed steers, they'd know that a handgun frequently has saved a good horse, or a decent cowboy from an angry cow or bull. I think most cowboys probably kept a belt gun handy, but unlike the hollywood version, kept it high on the belt.
 
I'm no expert. I just remember the SAA my grandpa used to carry. He was a homesteader/farmer/deputy sheriff in Indian Territory before the turn of the century. He had a Pistol Pete mustache and that gun hanging from the bedpost looked like a cannon to me as a little boy. As a side note, grandma, as a little girl saw Geronimo when he was briefly held at El Reno.

Okay, let's see ... where were we? ... Oh yes -- guns! :D
 
Mark Twain (Sam Clemens) quote

From "Mark Twain Himself" (pg 45, describing leaving St. Joe, MO with brother Orion, then appointed Sec'y Terr. of Nevada for Carson City)

"I was armed to the teeth with a pitiful little Smith & Wesson's seven-shooter, which carried a ball like a homeopathic pill, and it took the whole seven to make a dose for an adult. But I thought it was grand. It appeared to me to be a dangerous weapon. It only had one fault---you could not hit anything with it"..."The Secretary had a small-sized Colt's revolver strapped around him for protection against the indians, and to guard against accidents he carried it uncapped."

Of course that was in 1861, pre cartridge days.

Later, describing the Pony Express (riders), he wrote (pg 48)..."He carried no arms---he carried nothing that was not absolutely necessary,..."

So I wonder what an 1861 era seven shot S&W looked like and what caliber? Anyone have a link? Pepperbox? He called the Colt a "revolver" but failed to mention anymore particulars on the S&W.

And can you imagine being a teenage boy (or as Twain put it..."a little bit of a man") riding from St. Joe to Sacremento unarmed back then?

Adios
 
Mr. Stang,

There's a number of good books out on the life of cowboys in the West, including one of the series by Time - Life. In many of the photographs of ranch life of the men actually working with cattle, the one thing that's very frequently missing from the pictures are belt guns.

I'll drag out a copy when I get home this evening for some page cites, but I remember distinctly when I was younger reading that book, and others like it, and being absolutely SHOCKED that these guys weren't dripping with guns.

One only needs to look to the modern equivilent of the cowboy today, though, for a good indication of how many might have carried firearms while working with cattle. Not many guys carry guns while working with cattle today, even when the cattle are handled "the old way."

My Great Grandfather was a cowboy for some years in the Dakotas in the 1880s. The ONLY handgun that we know of him ever possessing was an H&R breaktop .32 S&W (wrong caliber. Geez, Mike, you know better than that!).

He was a writer in later life, and wrote quite a bit about the west and his life there (from reading his work, it must have been boring as hell 99.9% of the time!), and makes very few references to guns of any kind.
 
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In many of the photographs of ranch life of the men actually working with cattle, the one thing that's very frequently missing from the pictures are belt guns.
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They were pretty common though Mike, especially prior to fencing the range in when cowboys would have to range pretty far to deal with various ranching issues. Cowboy life back then was pretty solitary work, and you’d better have a couple of different tools at your disposal. One vital tool was a firearm. Pistols were a common way to go (as were rifles, obviously). When hands were together doing their thing, you’re right pistols weren’t as common. It was when they were out on their own (which used to be a common thing) that they would carry a gun.

One only needs to look to the modern equivilent of the cowboy today, though, for a good indication of how many might have carried firearms while working with cattle. Not many guys carry guns while working with cattle today, even when the cattle are handled "the old way."
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Modern cowboying is nowhere near what it was prior to the advent of barbwire. Modern ranches, even those that do it “the old wayâ€, are tiny compared to what they used to be. Even smaller ranches “back when†still had access to open range that required far ranging cowboys, that were often alone for significant periods of time.
 
Almost makes you wonder how they managed before the 1911 revolutionized handguns.

I had a dream the other night that I was in a gun fight with Bad Bart and I got him good. The year was 1911 and I already knew I love the 1911 model, in oh yeah .45acp.

His draw was faster than mine but his holster was empy.

Damn....no Glock! and what the heck is a 9mm?

:neener: :neener: :neener:

Yeah I know....just couldn't resist!
I like the Glocks, sort of, that are chambered in .45acp!:evil:

The 1911 and the .45acp cartridge are as American as baseball, apple pie and Ford trucks!!!! :D
 
Henry,

I'm not saying that they didn't have handguns, or that they didn't wear them.

I'm just saying I think we have an image of cowboys with their gun belts permanently welded to their bodies, and I really don't think that's true.

I suspect that a handgun spent more time in a saddlebag than on the person.

I'd also think that the rifle would be a much more common working tool for a cowboy out alone.
 
Mike,

I doubt a long arm was as handy as a pistola for the same reasons they aren't today when working on a farm/ranch. I believe ahenry has hit what I was trying to say, that when a bunch of folks were around, the pistol wasn't as likely needed, but when out by yourself, a pistol was as handy as a lariat. If you read Hell, I Was There, by Mr. Keith, he mentions packing a six shooter, and most of his compadres as well.

As to today's ranches, it's like today's cities. A lot of people, even people who work outdoors, have been conditioned that you "Don't need a gun, there are better ways to solve problems".

As for this ol' country boy, when I'm in the woods, on the farm, or in my backyard, I've got a pistol handy, just in case.

Michael
 
I wear a pistol when working around a farm I own back in La.
Wearing a pistol gets to be tedious, one reason I've never applied for concealed carry. I sometimes leave it or rifle in the pick-up or camphouse, nearby if needed, but not on my person. I suspect cowboys were similar. One in saddlebag was available if needed, but not always on your person.
Another thing I've found is that I prefer a holster with a cover over it. Keeping the gun clean is more important than a fast draw.
 
I'm just saying I think we have an image of cowboys with their gun belts permanently welded to their bodies, and I really don't think that's true.
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Ah. I misunderstood. I apologize. Certainly pistols weren’t the constant companion, day in and day out that hollywood would have you believe, but as I said, when out and about doing your job alone (like was very common back then), pistols then became a constant companion.

I suspect that a handgun spent more time in a saddlebag than on the person.
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Perhaps. I’d certainly think this would be the case if the cowboy had a rifle with him in a scabbard. Easy access to a rifle beats slow access to a pistol any way you slice it. However, just projecting my own personal thoughts into this (IOW, I don’t actually know), I wouldn’t want to have to dig in my saddlebag for a firearm. If I didn’t have a rifle with me I probably wouldn’t keep my pistol in a saddlebag.
 
The problem with a revolver in a saddle bag, etc is that if the cowboy got separated from his horse, then he was also separated from his gun. Not a nice situation.

Course I wasn't there :) but I have read a lot and looked at both old photos and paintings. Seems like it goes both ways - gun or no gun. But "concealed carry" was not even an issue back in those days, and a lot of men always wore coats - so you might not even know. Seems like a lot of the old guns you see in western museums are smaller ones, like the .32.

Charlie Russell had a fetish for accuracy down to the last detail, so I doubt that he added six-guns just to please his customers. If you look at his paintings, the cowboys almost always had them.

A rifle was a lot of extra baggage for a cowboy out working for the day from the wagon camp. Not too good if the mostly half-wild horses rolled on them either. The sixgun was for emergency defense, anyway. A mounted man traveling cross-country would more likely carry a long gun of some sort, instead or in addition.

The "Old West" (new at that time) was a rapidly changing environment. A ranch in Kansas and a ranch in Montana were different envirionments in the 80's or 90's. It was a lot wilder a lot later up here than some other places. Even after the Indians were mostly confined to reservations, they still broke out on horse stealing expeditions, etc.

Be nice to go back in time to visit and see what it was really like "before the wire"
 
Mike,

You just had to figure out how to sling the Vulcan from the latigo strings, so you didn't bust the horn off your rig!

This thread has been awesome, I'd love to go back in time to those days.

Of course, what DID they do for toilet paper on the range?

I guess that's why I love Cowboy Action shooting, I get to dress up like a cowboy, and go home to my throne and my tactical Charmin!

Michael
 
My grandfather was born and raise in Lincoln county New Mexico in the early 1890's. He made a few comments that have stuck with me over the years.

--Most people carried rifles.
--Cowpokes had handguns but they were generally on the saddle horn.
--Towns generally didn't allow handguns to be carried.
--Ladies and gentlemen would often carry a small derringer style handgun.
--Shootouts were rare.
--The shotgun Billy the Kid used in his jail escape was loaded with stacked dimes. ???? The early version of a fleschette round.
--Anyone carrying a piece on their hip was considered trouble.

I knew that information would be used sometime.
 
"If I could roll back the years back when I was young and limber,
loose as ashes in the wind - I had no irons in the fire.
I could ride them wild young boncos, the adrenaline came quickly,
and Juanita down at Mona's was my only heart's desire ..."


Sorry - doesn't add anything to the topic, but I just couldn't resist throwing that in - the tune kept going thru my head every time I come back to this thread.
 
and what the heck is a 9mm?
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It's that little dinky round that's a couple of years older than the round in your 1911 :D
IIRC, George invented the 9mm Luger round in 1903(?) and JMB invented the .45acp in 1905(?).
 
"They carried Glocks for the weight savings!"

'Chuck- as John Wayne once said:

"The west wasn't won with a polymer gun, Pilgrim!"
 
"The West". Which part, and just when?

One thing to keep in mind is that the period of 1850 to 1900 was a time of rapid innovation in American firearms. Another is that parts of the West were settled to a greater density of people and more rapidly than were others.

Some areas--around Denver or Salt Lake City, for instance--were not areas of danger from grizzlies or Indians, whereas at the same time in areas not all that far away, grizzlies and Indians were a serious problem. The same sort of situation held insofar as horse thieves or cattle rustlers.

Away from cattle country or trail herd supply, meat came from hunting. Anybody in the cow or sheep bidness needed a rifle to protect from predators.

Moving forward into the 1890s, an attraction of the Model 92 Winchester was the commonality of cartridges with pistols.

Lots of grim humor from that era. One coroner's jury's verdict, after a man began a gunfight with his handgun at another with a rifle and at a distance of over 100 yards, was "Suicide".

A headstone at Tombstone reads, "Here lies Les Moore. Five shots with a .44. No Les, no more." Numerous markers there read "Shot" or "Murdered". The one which still gives me goose bumps reads "Hanged by mistake".

Art
 
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