Back-Up Gun?

[Kleanbore]

I saw a re-enactment of an actual incident that occurred some years ago in which an armed man popped into a car as the driver let out a passenger while the car was stopped and the door was open. A number of defensive strategies--knife, gun next to the console, and so on--were kicked around in the discussion after the reenactment.

I didn't like any of them. It was clear to me that a gun brought into play from the left side with the left hand would work better than any of them.

The challenge is in the doing--in deciding when and how to act without alerting the bad guy. Surprise would be all important.

Thinking it through in the abstract, when adrenaline is low, could prove very helpful.

When we leave the house, we are not "going shooting--we are going somewhere to do other things. What we need to do is be able to recognize trouble before it is too late, and to be able to do something about it.

 

[scaatylobo]

Just back from some traveling with the wife on the road.

Portland Maine,Kittery Maine and then Lake George NY to Chateaugay NY.

Then home,only a very few times did being armed make me feel the need to be armed.

And no ,no action was required [ thank the Good Lord ].

But at those times I was very happy to be "comforted and not comfortable" as the famous Clint Smith stated a firearm makes you feel.

I was both single armed [ not including a 'social blade' ] and the other half was with a S&W scandium J frame.357 w +P loads,ankle rig.

Belt gun was a Sig P365 with 12 round magazines [ yes 2 ].

I see that you NEED to have situational awareness,or not bother to be armed.

Just the observations of an old man.

 

[Rexster]

Since starting this, I have changed something. Now, I almost always carry a small .380 in a holster that can be accessed with my left hand while I am strapped into the driver's seat of the car without letting an uninvited person in the passenger's seat grab my gun arm or my pistol.

It weighs about 13 oz and is barely noticeable. It is an almost effortless risk mitigation approach.

Compromise.

The LCP Max is my choice. I was moved to carry it by the exponential increase in the frequency of car-jackings.

If am outside the car and I do not have a loved one inside, they can have the car.

Good.

I see two issues: accessing the gun while strapped in, and keeping both my firearm and gun arm away from the reach of an uninvited visitor in the passenger seat.

You missed me.

My point was, should a car-jacker enter the car and occupy the passenger seat while I am strapped in, I want to carry a firearm that he cannot easily reach, and I want to handle it with my left hand--without releasing the harness.

It strikes me that most people do who do not stay informed about subjects RE: self preservation would likely find the idea of a civilian carrying two handguns strange and maybe extreme. Most people not carry at all. I remember my initial reaction to discussions about carrying a pistol in the house.

I decided to carry a second gun only after I realized that the potential need to produce a firearm does not begin an end with a classic Tueller situation. I realized how vulnerable one could be while in the car--not in terms of having to shoot from it, but in terms of dealing with someone who has popped in with me.

People do seem to understand that thought process very well indeed.

Good thinking! I see this as a “second” gun, rather than a “back-up” gun, or being about “accessibility options,” rather than “back-up.”

 

[RealGun]

That's where I carry the backup.
At that distance? Would that not be tantamount to handing the gun to the invader?

Tough crowd. I'm outa here.

 

[Craig_AR]

As I contemplate using an existing 642 as a BUG,
CrossBreed Ankle Holster
started testing it today with a blue gun for comfort, access, and draw.
Funny dents on my calf at the end of the day. Still in eval mode.

 

[Rexster]

Ankle holsters are a valid way to do this. Many of the disadvantages of drawing, from an ankle rig, while standing, are not present when seated. All ankle rigs will feel absolutely strange, at first. A good one will feel relatively normal, after a week or two.

My long-term favorable experiences were with Alessi ankle holsters, for J-Frames, the SP101, and the Glock G26, but Lou Alessi passed away, some time ago, and the company was kept going, for a while, but I believe it is now gone. Ritchie, 5-Shot Leather, and perhaps some others, make holsters in the same way Lou Alessi did. It is not easy to make an ankle rig that will carry an SP101 or G26 comfortably, but Lou Alessi, and his proteges/apprentices, sorted it out well.

I have heard good things about the Galco Ankle Glove.

 

[uzimon]

G26 or g30s in the pocket

 

[Thomasss]

Paladin - Have Gun, Will Travel: For TV Buffs; you know who ended up being the screenwriter for Paladin?
None other than "To boldly go where no man has gone before'? GENE RODENBERRY

 

[MedWheeler]

I don't see how difficult it could be for a right-handed person to fire a Rossi Model 68 or similar revolver weak-handed and not be able to hit a human in the right seat of a vehicle from the left seat.

 

[Rexster]

G26 or g30s in the pocket

This is going to be dependent upon the design of the individual pockets. Most trousers’ pockets are not the smoothest places from which to draw, with the best efficiency, while seated. When I have carried one gun in a pocket holster, and one gun in an ankle holster, the ankle gun would have been the most-accessible.

To be clear, I am not saying that you are not able to make pocket carry work, for you, while seated. The above paragraph was intended for the general membership, and others reading this thread.

 

[Anchorite]

Ankle holsters are a valid way to do this. Many of the disadvantages of drawing, from an ankle rig, while standing, are not present when seated. All ankle rigs will feel absolutely strange, at first. A good one will feel relatively normal, after a week or two.

My long-term favorable experiences were with Alessi ankle holsters, for J-Frames, the SP101, and the Glock G26, but Lou Alessi passed away, some time ago, and the company was kept going, for a while, but I believe it is now gone. Ritchie, 5-Shot Leather, and perhaps some others, make holsters in the same way Lou Alessi did. It is not easy to make an ankle rig that will carry an SP101 or G26 comfortably, but Lou Alessi, and his proteges/apprentices, sorted it out well.

I have heard good things about the Galco Ankle Glove.

I had a law school classmate who had a job wherein he sat in the office at a late-nite car wash. Car washes tend to be cash-cows. He had an ankle holster with a Jframe. One night after work he stopped at the local bank branch to deposit the nights earnings and was mugged. Never a chance to reach for his ankle.
So yes, ankle makes sense in some scenarios, but from that experience he started carrying AIWB.

 

[Rexster]

I had a law school classmate who had a job wherein he sat in the office at a late-nite car wash. Car washes tend to be cash-cows. He had an ankle holster with a Jframe. One night after work he stopped at the local bank branch to deposit the nights earnings and was mugged. Never a chance to reach for his ankle.
So yes, ankle makes sense in some scenarios, but from that experience he started carrying AIWB.

True, ankle carry has serious tactical limitations. I have very rarely carried an ankle gun, when I was not also carrying a gun at waist level.

 

[herrwalther]

I had a law school classmate who had a job wherein he sat in the office at a late-nite car wash. Car washes tend to be cash-cows. He had an ankle holster with a Jframe. One night after work he stopped at the local bank branch to deposit the nights earnings and was mugged. Never a chance to reach for his ankle.
So yes, ankle makes sense in some scenarios, but from that experience he started carrying AIWB.

When I carried a bug, I did so with ankle carry. The thought process and training behind the decision was my primary firearm was out of commission for some reason. Either out of ammo, on the ground, I'm on the ground and can't reach it etc. I placed the ankle handgun on the inside of my left leg. With the thought and practice I could reach it one handed and with either hand. Ankle carry is slow. And I would never advocate it as a primary means of carry unless there is no other way to carry a firearm.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

I’ve Carried a Secondary on occasion … Yet I feel it’s a bit redundant. It’s like carrying in the shower, unnecessary. I understand be prepared, Yet What’s next? Carry two wallets in case I can’t get to my 1st one fast enough or run out of money with the 1st.
Point being- I think some take this A tad to far… Mentally.

My opinion- Dosnt have to be yours or corrected-Tho I’d politely discuss it with someone.

 

[Kleanbore]

Yet What’s next? Carry two wallets in case I can’t get to my 1st one fast enough or run out of money with the 1st.

Hardly a matter of self-preservation.

 

[herrwalther]

Carry two wallets in case I can’t get to my 1st one fast enough or run out of money with the 1st.

Oddly enough you mention that. Massad Ayoob has recommended carrying a decoy wallet for years. So when someone does the whole "gimme your money" routine, you can give them whatever is in your decoy wallet. Small bills, cancelled cards etc. The idea has always intrigued me but I have enough crap in my pockets already than to carry an extra.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

I Certainly like Massad, He values a good revolver.

I would carry 2 wallets…. 1 full of ammo ,for Autonomy

 

[Kleanbore]

I Certainly like Massad, He values a good revolver

OT.

Mas explains well the advantages of a DA revolver for someone who knows next to nothing about firearms.

He carries a semiauto.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Tho Your a bit off topic

He values a Good Revolver. Fact- no need to correct it

Tho can you provide the Detailed location of where he said that very statement?

Or….is that your paraphrasing of your opinion. I know you like to Provide Exact critiques- So please do so.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I personally don't have anything really suitable for a BUG. All my handguns are full sized and I'm sorry...I'm just not carrying two full sized guns.

My wife has a PPK/S. I could see that as a BUG. Well...except for the fact that it's my wife's and she's already told me once "GET YOUR OWN!"

 

[herrwalther]

My wife has a PPK/S. I could see that as a BUG. Well...except for the fact that it's my wife's and she's already told me once "GET YOUR OWN!"

I have that but in reverse. My wife has one of those NAA mini revolvers in .22 mag. They make great BUGs as well as guns to slip in a workout belt to go for a jog. Sometimes when I grab it to go jogging and she tells me the same thing.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Hmm ,I have That in opposite

If I grab the small backup S&W 22 Lr and range bag I have -with another S&W On my belt, to go to the Shooting range….

My wife says “Why not go Jogging?”

 

[Kleanbore]

I would suggest that before one looks at a handgun and muses about its possible use for backup, one should ask just why one would want to carry a backup gun in the first place, and then select the gun. IOW , start with the requirements.

The first persons whom I knew who carried backup guns sere LEOs. Their requirement was to have a small, light gun that would not add too much to their carry load and that could be used effectively when and if it became necessary, as a last ditch defensive weapon for close combat. That would rule out anything that would require the use of two hands, and it would mitigate against tiny guns on the lowest end of the ballistic performance scale. Those officers did not carry backup guns for fun for fun.

Others may be looking for a "New York Reload".

As stated, I wanted a small pocket gun accessible to the left hand. I thought my small steel revolvers would suffice, but a Kimber K6s in a cargo pocket is not something I want banging against my knee as I walk.

The much lighter LCP Max seem to check all the boxes for me;

 

[Blue Jays]

A smooth, lightweight, concealed-hammer revolver is a wonderful backup gun in a quality pocket holster.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Never favored small autos,Glock 19 serves me well…When I carry it. I’ve Thrown my 43x in a iwb as it’s convenient. Yet never felt the need for both at same time. That’s a lot of ammo in that 19. When in a vehicle (Drive a lot in city) I am actively thinking about precautions.
The only time I feel a need (Not often) is dependent on Capacity of a Revolver carry. I completely understand certain situations that would arise , that COULD warrant the need for a secondary. However my Crystal ball is a bit fuzzy, I highly doubt the required need. I Think,Some just feel the Need …to be overly prepared and They are just in doing so.