what do i do when i get robbed?

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ganymede

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I work in a national chain pharmacy in down town Salt Lake. recently, one of our nearby stores was robbed at gunpoint. pharmacys get robbed fairly often arround here so i think there is a very good chance that one day i will see one or more men walk in to the store carrying guns. I work as a cashier right in the front of the store, so i will likely be the first one to see them. I've ondered what to do in this situation. company policy says i should smile and cooperate. But personaly I value my life more then my job. So I carry a gun to work every day as is my legal right to do so here.

I imagine a scernario very much like what happened last week. a man walks into the store heading toward the pharmacy carriing a gun in his hand. what do i do? I've thought about doing this. tell me what you think.

In the case of one person: I wait until he passes me. while his back is turned, i pull out my gun and yell in a loud voice. "DONT MOVE OR I"LL SHOOT!" if he moves i fire 3-5 shots at his COM. If he doesnt move i tell him "drop your weapon." then "now take three steps backwards towards me." then "lie face down on the ground with your hands in front of you." then i would make sure someone was calling the police. If the suspect tries to run after he drops his gun i suppose he isn't a threat to me any more, and I would let him run.

In case of two or more armed people: Once agian I wait until they pass me and their backs are turned. I have doubts as to my ability to control the situation in this case. So I think I would have no choice but to pull my gun and open fire without warning. About three shots at each person.

tell me what you think. contructive critisizm is welcome of course, but don't imply im stupid if you think i said something thats a bad idea. I'm just looking for insight from other people who might have some good ideas.
 
You are under NO legal obligation to give a verbal warning.

In fact, doing so can get you or others killed.
 
"DONT MOVE OR I"LL SHOOT!" if he moves i fire 3-5 shots at his COM.

What if he turns and runs away? 3-5 shots in his back?

If he doesnt move i tell him "drop your weapon." then "now take three steps backwards towards me."

What if he takes 4 steps or 5?

Trying to plan ahead is good but rarely if ever you will think up a scenario that matches one you wind up having to face. Planning ahead is great. If something happens you say to yourself "I knew this would happen someday" instead of "Oh my what am I going to do?". Mental preparation definitely puts you on the right track.

After it starts you usually wind up making up your responses as things develop but thinking about it ahead of time makes it easier.
 
"What if he turns and runs away? 3-5 shots in his back?"

First off in my scenario I would be between the robber and the door because of where my cash register is, so he would be turning to face me if he tried to run away. second, if he tries to run after i tell him "dont move or ill shoot" i will shoot him. thats the point of saying don't move or ill shoot. i wouldnt have time to figure out if he was trying to run away or was tunring arround to shoot me.
 
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"What if he takes 4 steps or 5?"

that seems neither realistic or relevant IMHO. it kind of like saying "what if instead of walking backwards he stands on his tipie toes and sarts spinning in cirlces" but i do agree that things are unlikely to go exactly the way i have them in my head
 
Most of the time the robbers want to get in, get what they want & get out. Very rarely will things go so bad that you need to shoot someone, or even draw your weapon. The key is figuring out when it's going to be a very bad day for you if you don't stand up & fight.

Some things to consider:
Rounding you all up- NEVER go quietly into the cooler, vault, whatever

Loss of mobility- If you lay face down you're severely limiting your ability to fight if it comes to it.

Tied up- & shot in the face. Bad.

Demeanor change- Increase in frustration, sweating, looks like he's about to puke or cry are all good indicators that things are going to go from bad to worse.

IF you think the situation warrants pulling your gun then it better warrant shooting someone. Front, back, face, butt, whatever. This is not to say that if the gun comes out it must go bang- a lot can change in the 1-2 seconds it takes to draw & aim in.
 
"...I work as a cashier..." You're not paid enough to do anything but give 'em what they want and pay close attention to 'em to give an accurate description to the cops.
Your boss know you carry at work?
"...while his back is turned..." What did your CCW course teach you about threats? A bad guy not facing you is not a threat.
 
"...while his back is turned..." What did your CCW course teach you about threats? A bad guy not facing you is not a threat.
Click to expand...

He is a deadly threat to the people he's facing.
 
Sunray said:
A bad guy not facing you is not a threat.
Click to expand...
A bad guy facing away with a drawn gun can turn and fire in under a second. That is an immediate threat to your life. If you were instructed otherwise your instruction was sub-standard.
 
You value your life more than your job. No argument from me there. How about other peoples' lives? Your co-workers, and customers, to be specific?

Do you really want to get into a gunfight in a store with other employees and customers scattered around who knows where? Are you that good with a pistol under pressure? What training have you had, from whom, and when? How much liability insurance do you have? Do you have legal insurance? Have you discussed the eventualities and possible ramifications of such behavior with your attorney yet? Do you have an attorney on retainer at this point? Is his card in your wallet and his private number programmed into your cell phone?

Do you know what a 'tail gunner' is, and can you spot one even when you are concentrating on the threat you can see? Can you manage two or more threats firing at you at the same time from different directions? Do you have real cover (that will stop bullets) at your work station, or is it just a particle board counter?

Is anyone else in the store carrying beside you? Do you know their intentions in the event of an armed robbery? Do your coworkers have distinctive work uniforms? Is there any possibility any of your coworkers might be an "inside man" for a robbery team?

Do any of your customers carry concealed? How will you be able to tell a good-guy customer who draws a gun in the middle of a firefight from the robbers? Are any of your customers plain clothes LEOs? How might they react in such a situation?

And so on. It's impolite to answer a question with a question, I know, but I hope this helps you begin to understand the multidimensional nature of the situation you're proposing a little better...

lpl
 
What did your CCW course teach you about threats? A bad guy not facing you is not a threat.
Click to expand...

That is dangerous thinking.

An armed man with his back to you as he moves back for better concealment to keep shooting at you is absolutely still a threat.

This whole idea that shooting someone in the back isn't "fair" is going to get someone killed.

If he is fleeing, you may be right, but just because someone has their back to you doesn't mean they are fleeing.

What if they turn around to shoot a bystander?

If someone trained you that an armed perp with his back to you can never be a threat you need to ask for a refund.
 
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So now we are dealing with a possible gunfight inside a drugstore and for what? Narcotics?

That stuff will be eliminated from the robber's system the next day and you might be still dead.

So, is that job still worth your life?

I once had a job as a cashier. I did fairly well for a while. But got out because it's just too much tracking all the customers during the coffee rush while the boss is closing out the previous day with the money laying around the office and I was not armed in those days.

Me thinks that if you are facing a possibility of a real robbery against you and your store, it's time to consider either bringing up the subject with all of your co workers and boss and setting up a who is doing what drill before it happens or you might want to use that knowledge to secure a job in a hospital pharm office or drug dispensing. Much more secure than a typical civilian drug store.

I get my medicines from one of several hospitals from time to time and find them to be very quiet and secure. Much more so than retail drugstores.

I was robbed twice. Once without knowing it through a ruse and once which was captured on video behind MY back, again as a ruse without weapons.

They could not rob my place with guns or force I just lock em in and wait for LEO's to sweep em up. And they could not rob it any other time because again there are multipule staffers in the place and they will simply do the same. So because our workplace was too hard of a target, they prefer to do it via a ruse to get to the money. First they visit you and become a buddy. Then they spend enough time observing everything, particularly how you work the register etc. Then they... bring others... Next thing you know you have many friends.

Life is good right? Not. They were useful for passing the dead times late at night between rushes and staying awake without boredom. But they are as vultures planning the cleaning of you and your pickings and it will take a while.

Hell, I used to haul the stuff out of McKesson in Memphis and it was always a hoot being mobile and keeping mouth shut because of the millon dollar controlled loads in your trailer.
 
first off if you think a person walking towards you coworker with a gun drawn isn't a threat, you need to really think about that statement.

let me clarify a few things. I don't care about people coming in to steal money. I don't really care if they get caught for it or not. I do care if they hurt someone.

Let's say they come in to the store with guns drawn (as they have before) they order everyone to lie face down on the ground, (as they have before) let's say we cooperate. they get their dope, their money, they leave without hurting anyone. now let's say while they were inside a customer called the police. outside the store a couple squad cars are the first to arrive. A firefight breaks out and both suspects and one police officer are killed.

I would feel bad for the rest of my life if I had to kill someone. I would feel much worse if my inaction directly or indirectly lead to the death of an inocent person.

I gotta say, despite the time I've put into think of this, if the day comes, i might just get too scared to move and lie there and not do anything. I hope I don't but it's hard to say what i would do in a situation I've never been in.

It is our official company policy that employees are not alowed to carry guns, but i think one of the pharmacists packs too, and one of the managers has expressed interest in getting a ccw as well.

I understand that there are a lot of things that could go wrong if i take action to stop a deadly threat. But it seems like the benifits of taking action in this case would out-weigh the risks. I do know in my state if i shot an armed robber I would face zero legal liability.
 
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Are you really willing to shoot someone in the back over a property crime?

I could understand defending yourself if he was pointing a gun at you, but it he's walking towards the pharmacy with his gun not pointed AT anyone?
 
What do you do?
Carry a cell phone; find cover/concealment, call 911, protect yourself.

All cashiers are targets. The pharmacist might not have any of the narcotics in stock, or might not be able to get access. You definitely have what the robbers want in stock. If they don't stop on the way in, expect them to stop on the way out.
 
I should have said this before. If someone comes asking for oxycontin, we are supposed to inform them that we don't carry that drug (there are signs posted saying this) I know for fact thats a lie. I have personaly gotten a percription for oxycontin in my own store. we do carry oxycontin and the perps know this. I'd imagine telling them that we dont have it or were out of it is likely to escalate the situation.

also for someone who asked, my only cover would be the cashier stand made out of cheap particle board.
 
that seems neither realistic or relevant IMHO. it kind of like saying "what if instead of walking backwards he stands on his tipie toes and sarts spinning in cirlces" but i do agree that things are unlikely to go exactly the way i have them in my head

It is very realistic. Many times in stressfull situations (I'm talking about the bad guy now) mouths will be compliant but the body isn't. the best way to deal with this is tell the person to do one thing at a time and wait for them to comply with that order before going to the next.
 
"Are you really willing to shoot someone in the back over a property crime?"

it has nothing to with the money or goods that are stolen and everything to do with saving an innocent life. if i had to choose between giving 500 dollars from my own pocket and killing the person trying to rob me, i would gladly give them the money. the point is i don't know if giving the person what they want is enough. they are pointing guns at us, endangering my life and the lives of my coworkers and I don't want to feel responasable for the death of a customer, worker or police officer if i don't stop what i had a chance to stop.


And BTW thatnks for all those questions lee laplin, it gave me a few things to think about.
 
""that seems neither realistic or relevant IMHO. it kind of like saying "what if instead of walking backwards he stands on his tipie toes and sarts spinning in cirlces" but i do agree that things are unlikely to go exactly the way i have them in my head"

It is very realistic. Many times in stressfull situations (I'm talking about the bad guy now) mouths will be compliant but the body isn't. the best way to deal with this is tell the person to do one thing at a time and wait for them to comply with that order before going to the next."

excellent point griz i hadn't thought of that. i guess if they took to many, i wouldn't need to do anything. if they took too few i would tell them to keep coming towards the sound of my voice. thanks for your input. (if anyone is wondering, the whole point of me telling them to walk backwards is to get them out of reach of the gun on the floor)
 
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If you really

think there is a very good chance that one day i will see one or more men walk in to the store carrying guns.
Click to expand...


And you don't want to "smile and cooperate" you should QUIT.


If they are coming in with their guns drawn, you will reach for your gun and about the time your hand hits the grip you will have several bullets penetrating your chest. All I'm saying is if you see them "walk in to the store carrying guns" you have already lost the gun fight. The first to draw wins 99% of the time.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be prepared but in that situation your best bet is to "smile and cooperate."
 
1. If you pull your weapon in the Pharmacy be prepared to lose your job no matter the outcome.

2. Be sure that you are helping the situation not escalating it to a point that will get a friend or coworker killed that would have lived otherwise.

3. Know you have the skill, competency and firepower to handle the situation.---Get training from a competent instructor and ask them what they think of your proficiency level and this type of threat. --Make sure you are being trained by a skilled trainer with real world experience not a mall ninja wannabe.

3. Make sure you are protecting life and not property. Nobody including the stockholders cares more about loss of inventory than loss of life.

4. Make sure you are willing to live with the legal, financial, and emotional consequences.
 
"The first to draw wins 99% of the time."

really? I'd like to know where you got the statisc. can you link a credable source for that? It's my understanding that it usualy faster to act then it is to react and the first person to act wins more often then not. Even if they had to draw thier weapon while the other peson had the beat on them so to speak. I could be wrong on that though.
 
I'm just saying that when you have a man with his gun in hand he will almost always win the gun fight against a man who still has his holstered and concealed on top of that.

No offence but I believe the line of thinking you going down will get someone, other than the robber, shot and it will probably be you.

At least, BARE MINUM, refer back to post #11 and answer those questions.
 
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