What do you think about a Presa Canario for a home defense dog?

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TheOtherOne

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I've asked about dogs in the past and I'm wondering what you all think about a Presa for a home defense dog?

I've talked with the breeders and those at elpresa.com and of course they all say that defense and guarding is one of the things these dogs are best at.

The main reason I'm interested in the presa over other dogs:

1. Short haired and not bad on the shedding.
2. Extremely loyal to the family but distrusting of strangers.
3. Very tough dog that will reduce my chance of even having to get involved if a home invader threatens me.
4. I've never been a fan of smaller dogs and these are far from small.
5. I just love the look of them!

The only downside that I can see is the price. They usually want about $1200 for them but I've heard of other tough breeds (like Rottweilers, Dobermans, German Shephards) that run as much as $3000.
 
That would really depend on you. Do you have small kids or other animals? Small kids can unknowingly be very cruel to an animal. While a tough dog will be more likely to put up with this, if they do bite your kid is most likely dead or severely injured. Most dogs of this type are very animal aggressive. Even if you get the dog accustomed to your animals, a neighbor's cat coming into the yard is as good as dead. A dog such as this needs a firm hand and solid training. If you lack experience training dogs you might have problems. Also be aware that you cannot treat them as you would a urine sponge (ie lap dog). YOU must be the master of the relationship, or they might turn all that nice mistrust of and aggression toward people it doesn't know onto someone who doesn't deserve it. Do you want to be legally and morally responsible for your poorly disciplined dog mauling some girl scout who "posed a threat" by knocking on your door?
Also, do you have enough space? Large, active dogs need room.
 
Well said, Balog!

To that I would add: do you live out in the boonies or on a compound with at LEAST an 8' fence? These guys can jump like nobody's business. A 6' fence is your basic hopscotch rink for Presas.

If you live in any kind of subdivision, how well do you know your neighbors? They can make your life miserable just having to explain yourself to homeowner's associations, ASPCA, Animal Control, etc.-- I know. I had a "killer Sheltie" one time that "terrorized" the old widow next door...FROM INSIDE our fence! Go figure. :rolleyes:
 
double check with your homeowners insurance agent first.. many breeds are specifically excluded and this dog could be a big liability for you. This is also the breed that chewed the neck of that lady in San Francisco a few years back they charged the owners with felonies. resulting in much bad press for this dog.
 
My only knowledge of this breed came from the national news when a pair killed a woman in California. The female owner who was present couldn't control them. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance.
 
Personally I like different big dogs. Try looking at some of the larger hounds, like a Rhodesian Ridgeback, or Great Dane. Remember too, the bigger they are, the shorter their lifespan generally. After all, it's the intimidation factor of a dog--you really don't want it mauling someone. The insurance factor is another thing you have to watch out for--ins co's WILL deny you homeowners ins if you have certain breeds. Any well loved, trained dog will protect its pack--that's your family, btw. A dog bred for fighting will too, but if it bites someone even under duress, I bet the city where you live will force you to destroy the "dangerous dog".

But get whatever you want.
Just treat it well, whatever breed or mix it is. Oh, and spay/neuter!
 
I understand about controlling the dog and letting it know who's in charge. I can't stand it when I see people that let their dog do pretty much whatever it wants. As far as kids and pets go: no and no. One of the neighbors behind me does have a little tiny toy poodle that could probably be swallowed up in one gulp and the fence is short. Thanks for bringing up the fence height issue. That could be a problem because the city has an ordinance of nothing higher than 6 feet.


Also, do you have enough space? Large, active dogs need room.
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Space shouldn't be a problem. It's not a huge lot, but it's mis-shaped just right so that most of my space is all in the backyard. The back fence line borders 3 different neighbors.


double check with your homeowners insurance agent first..
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I know my agent asked me if I had a dog when I bought the house a couple months ago, of course I didn't then so I told her no. I guess I'll have to check into that before I get the dog.


Try looking at some of the larger hounds, like a Rhodesian Ridgeback, or Great Dane.
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I've heard of Rhodesian Ridgebacks... I'll have to take a look at them closer. I'm still open to suggestions on other dogs. Something big, that can handle it's own and not only offer protection for me but also to protect the guns/house when I'm out. One main criteria though is short haired. I can't stand lots of dog hair all over the place.
 
TheOtherOne

The American Kennel Club states that: "Dogs of the Working Group were bred to perform such jobs as guarding property , pulling sleds and performing water rescues. They have been invaluable assets to man throughout the ages. The Doberman Pinscher, Siberian Husky and Great Dane are included in this Group, to name just a few. Quick to learn, these intelligent, capable animals make solid companions. Their considerable dimensions and strength alone, however, make many working dogs unsuitable as pets for average families. And again, by virtue of their size alone, these dogs must be properly trained ."

emphasis added

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/working.cfm

On the AKC link above you'll find lots of info regarding home defense dogs such as their pros and cons. IMHO the German Shepperd is the best all around home defense dog.
 
Me, I'll be getting a Dogo Argentino as soon as I get out of the Marine Corps and settle down in a house. I think the world of them. You might also look into a Rottie.

Oh and Vic303: if I'm being attacked, I actually would want it mauling someone. I just want to make sure it happens for the right reasons.
 
Whatever breed you finally get. Do alot of research about the breed, your breeder, what are their health issues ,etc. All large breed will have some incidence of Hip Dysplasia(sp?). Make sure your dam and sire have either PennHip or OFA done and what the results are. If possible look for the same for the grandparents also.
If you end up looking at Sheperds I would suggest looking at Shiloh Shepherds. They are a larger version of the Germans with better temperaments.

Bob
 
Strategies and Tactics probably isn't the best forum for this one. Not sure we even have an animal forum here.

Those are nice looking dogs, though!
 
Definately check on the insurance angle. I know Presas were specifically not covered when I went and bought insurance recently. I use American Family Insurance, and they don't cover Presas, Pit Bulls, and a couple others (Brazilian Filas come to mind for some reason, but I don't know 100%). On the other hand, they didn't care about my Ridgeback, and as of his last visit to the vet he was about 110 lbs. They are very loyal, but can be stubborn sometimes.

jack.jpg
 
Strategies and Tactics probably isn't the best forum for this one. Not sure we even have an animal forum here
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True, but this is where I've seen the few "defense dog" threads in the past and figured it was about as relevant to firearms as a thread about knives. :D
 
This seems like a good thread to ask about something that has been a curiosity to me, as a deputy sheriff, for years now. Why is it that every time I get sent out as courtesy security/crowd control for street fairs, carnivals, festivals, etc. there is always some dufus with a gigantic dog on a lead in the middle of it? Most often, it is one of the so-called fighting breeds, too. What a great idea, bring a dog of aggressive breed to an environment where there's a lot of excited little kids darting around and just a lot of generalized crowding. Jeebus, but some people flabbergast me with the depths of their self-centered stupidity...
 
Let's try to veer this into the S&T ballpark:

What are some strategies for dealing with a dog in such a situation, if the dog starts getting aggresive? I assume "play dead" isn't the best approach.
 
SOmething that sounds dumb, but works. When confronted by a strange dog. Maintain eye contact, but stick out your tongue (think like a dog that is panting). This is a sign of non-aggression to dogs, and if you think about it, it makes sense. When have you ever seen a dog bite something with his tongue hanging out?
 
Is this going to be the first dog you supervise growing up? If it is, I'd recommend rather considering a breed of a different sort.

The canario is an LGD (lifestock guarding dog) type. LGDs' typical and favorable traits make them a risk for a non-experienced master: to put it very shortly, your relationship with the dog can be ruined by a one-time mistake in handling a new situation with the puppy or young dog. Lengthier explanations available if required :) .

A breed with a lifestock herding background, a working dog in the sense of a malleable, eager-to-please, willing-to-learn-and-do-together type of a dog would make the chances of successfully living together for a happy dog's life time (remember, that should be around a good dozen years!) appreciably better. The epitome here would be the German shepherd of its classic type.

Now, sure there will be the succesful personalities that have taken a different type as their first dog. More power to everyone, I'm not here to take any of your good living away: I must admit I'm one myself with my Black Russian. What I'm saying, I would have had an easier time with something of the pure herder type; and I very nearly lost it with my dog when he got adolescent.

As to the protection bit, any dog will be a huge deterring asset. A convincing dog that will also work on a non-deterrable problem is a perfect asset. A huge dog with all of the above will just eat more... :p ;) One of the most convincing dogs I know is a female mid-size schnauzer of about 30 kilos.

The surprising thing about lifestock guardian breed is that actually they are "soft" in their nature. I.e., they'll remember bad experiences and be wary of the circumstances that resemble such an instance. Compare to wolves or, say, elephants :scrutiny: :D . A working dog of the kind I mean here tends to be "hard", i.e., will forget a bad experience very quickly. Correct me on the actual wording of these terms, I've never seen them used in English. They're central in the German-Nordic tradition of schooling working dogs and a very useful concept in considering a dog's character.

Check out: GSD, giant schnauzer, beauceron, dobermann, hovawart... or, as you, like myself, hate the shedding thing, the airedale terrier.

The schnauzers (and the BRT like mine) are wiry-haired like the airedale, they practically don't shed at all. You have to comb the dead hair out. Heck, you can vacuum some such dogs... :D and avoid a lot of vacuuming of the house. With a usual, shedding breed it really doesn't make much difference if the coat is long or short: you'll find dog hair inside the boiled egg you crack for breakfast... :D
 
I am a big fan of the various Mastiff's and crosses (Fila's, etc.). In spite of how much trust I had in the dog, I probably would not have one of those if I had small children in the house.

Proper training and socialization is a must. Large yard. As mentioned, 8' fence.

For a smaller dog, Ridgeback would certainly be a great choice.
 
A lot of good points brought up here: insurance etc. The big question to me is, are you willing to make the comitment to own a large dog ? It doesn't matter what breed of dog you buy, what matters is your development of the dog throughout it's life. You are going to have to be willing to make the dog an integral part of your family and you are going to have to be willing to spend quite a few hours training it. If you are planning on leaving it outside etc, you are probably making a mistake in buying a dog of any kind. If you see a dog as being a sub-human animal that only exists to do your bidding, you are probably going to be in trouble.
 
igor, thanks for all the advice. It won't be my first dog, but almost. I had a lab that I raised but she wasn't much of a problem other than chewing up the hose all the time in the first year or two. I never had to house train her since she wasn't allowed in the house, but didn't have a problem getting her to always use the same corner of the garden. Now that I have my own place and have decided to keep a dog inside, this will be my first experience dealing with that.

I think my biggest challenge will be getting the dog to be an effective tool against intruders but still playing nice with guests. Hopefully it won't be too hard because, from what I understand, it's in their nature to like whoever you like and vice versa.
 
My only question is this (and I hope it doesn't start another darned flame war):

What's more effective...the bite of a big, slow dog or the bite of a small, fast one?:neener:
 
1. Wouldn't have a PC, but I have kids and a hedgehog for some reason.

2. Got two shedding-type dogs. Hair is literally everywhere. Vacuuming is futile. Got one of those bagless water vacuums; you can just keep cleaning the same room as many times as you want and never stop filling that damn thing with hair. Don't wear white to my house, either.

3. My dogs are just mutts (black lab/red heeler/chow/beagle) but you wouldn't want to be the guy bothering my wife. The big one is perfectly capable of knocking the average man over by taking him in the chest, and the little one not only has teeth like a vampire, but she's capable of taking birds in flight (not routinely, of course, but she's done it.) Much like a gun, it's possible to overthink the decision of getting a dog.

4. The thing that killed us with training our dog was that we thought she had too much excess energy and needed a playmate, so we got a puppy. The puppy was a red heeler/lab mix, so it's a runner/herder by nature. Worse, since the first dog wasn't really trained yet, both dogs were shortly out of control and we're still working on getting them to grow up.

5. My little sister got a huge American Bulldog she named "Otis" from a friend who rescued him from severe mistreatment. He's a giant, but he's the friendliest, happiest, most loving dog I've ever seen. He's not as playful as the black labs I'm used to, but he never gets aggressive, just walks away when he's tired of playing. Oddest of all, he seems to have absolutely no urge to run away. My sister has given him no training, but she doesn't own a leash. Never has needed one even though her yard is unfenced.
Are these characteristics of the breed? Right now, a dog that doesn't want to run away every half hour sounds ideal.
 
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