MacPelto
Member
Have you looked into a boerboel mastiff? They look kinda similar, and don't apper to be on any of the insurance lists. They're really uncommon here, but are very impressive in person.
What do you think about a Presa Canario for a home defense dog?
- Thread starter TheOtherOne
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Get a big healthy mutt at the pound. Cross-breeds generally have better health than full-breeds (fewer unhealthy recessive alleles popping up) and they are often quite smart.
Most any dog, even one that loves playing with the kids, will defend its territory, or at least bark in warning (giving you plenty of time to gird your loins and rack your shotgun). If you get a real attack dog you are setting yourself up, legally speaking.
Potential intruders simply avoid houses with dogs that bark because they don't know what they might do. And neither will you, really, unless you spend a lot of time and money training the dog.
Most any dog, even one that loves playing with the kids, will defend its territory, or at least bark in warning (giving you plenty of time to gird your loins and rack your shotgun). If you get a real attack dog you are setting yourself up, legally speaking.
Potential intruders simply avoid houses with dogs that bark because they don't know what they might do. And neither will you, really, unless you spend a lot of time and money training the dog.
dogs
any one that owns a dog solely for it's aggressive characteristics is doing himself, his family, his neighbors and the general public a disservice. i had a neighbor who owned a MEAN dog. it bit his own children. i told him in no uncertain terms that if it came into my yard it would be a dead dog. it ran across the street and bit a 3 year old girl playing in her driveway. had i been home at the time she would have been the last child it bit. i kept a loaded shotgun in the house expressly for the purpose of doing that dog in!the dog was finally, after much hand wringing and wailing gotten rid of. when the owner went back to egypt he still wasn't speaking to me. i've owned 4 labs. not one ever bit anyone. i had no fears that some one would attack me or mine when they were near. i had only females as i felt males were too aggressive. i raised 3 children with those dogs and every kid for three blocks around loved them. no vicious dogs for me. if i was that afraid of people i'd just put up an electrified fence and a sign saying " no visitors". my dogs were valued family members in their own right.people who buy a dog to compensate for qualities they may lack {other than nose} are barking up the wrong tree.
any one that owns a dog solely for it's aggressive characteristics is doing himself, his family, his neighbors and the general public a disservice. i had a neighbor who owned a MEAN dog. it bit his own children. i told him in no uncertain terms that if it came into my yard it would be a dead dog. it ran across the street and bit a 3 year old girl playing in her driveway. had i been home at the time she would have been the last child it bit. i kept a loaded shotgun in the house expressly for the purpose of doing that dog in!the dog was finally, after much hand wringing and wailing gotten rid of. when the owner went back to egypt he still wasn't speaking to me. i've owned 4 labs. not one ever bit anyone. i had no fears that some one would attack me or mine when they were near. i had only females as i felt males were too aggressive. i raised 3 children with those dogs and every kid for three blocks around loved them. no vicious dogs for me. if i was that afraid of people i'd just put up an electrified fence and a sign saying " no visitors". my dogs were valued family members in their own right.people who buy a dog to compensate for qualities they may lack {other than nose} are barking up the wrong tree.
Solinvictus70
Member
Watch dog
I live in apartment and have an alert, active, and vigilant 9.5 lb chihuahua who lets me know if anyone is in the parking lot or on the stairs.
I live in apartment and have an alert, active, and vigilant 9.5 lb chihuahua who lets me know if anyone is in the parking lot or on the stairs.
TheOtherOne
Member
Is that like the argument that people buy guns to compensate for qualities they lack?
Any dog can be an aggressive and dangerous dog if you raise it that way. I want a guard dog that is loyal to it's family, and that's what I'll be getting. If I'm getting a dog to compensate for the fact that I can't stay awake all night and sit in front of the door with a shotgun, then so be it.
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
I'll have to second the recommendation to visit the local pound and pick out a mutt that suits your liking and seems to be a smart, pleasant puppy. I live in a single bedroom apartment, so I don't personally own a dog, but I "have" two that live with the parents about an hour from me. Both were rescued from an animal shelter and have been fantastic. One appears to be an almost pure, if not pure, white lab that some jerk tossed over the shelter fence one Christmas morning. The other is some kind of mutt about half her size but twice as aggressive. Not to the point of being a problem, fortunately.
Check out the shelters. Even if you don't bring a puppy home, it's rewarding to at least give it a go.
Think of it as going to the police station and picking out the confiscated firearm of your choice before it's melted down.
Check out the shelters. Even if you don't bring a puppy home, it's rewarding to at least give it a go.
Think of it as going to the police station and picking out the confiscated firearm of your choice before it's melted down.
TheOtherOne
Member
What do you all think?
Ferocious enough to thwart home invaders?
Anyways, I might start another thread about this but I need to start conditioning her so she won't be gun shy. I've heard you just need to do things like make sudden loud noises when they are doing things that are fun (eating/playing) but clapping loud and shooting a gun are two completely different things... any other suggestions?
Ferocious enough to thwart home invaders?
Anyways, I might start another thread about this but I need to start conditioning her so she won't be gun shy. I've heard you just need to do things like make sudden loud noises when they are doing things that are fun (eating/playing) but clapping loud and shooting a gun are two completely different things... any other suggestions?
TheOtherOne
Member
For the record, this is the first time I've heard that. I've researched these dogs quite a bit the last couple of months and from what I understand they were originally bred as a cattle guarding dog. They kept other animals/people away from the cattle and kept the cattle where they were suppose to be. The bulldog in their lines is to give them the jaws to hold on and not let go and the mastiff is for their size. It is true that they were used as fighting dogs for awhile, what bull breed hasn't been?
As far as having a history of turning on their owners, I haven't heard that before either. There's been no reported incidents of them ever even biting the owner or a family member. They got a bad rap because of the two dogs in San Francisco and that was a case of the owner not being able to control a very protective dog. Just like any dog they will bite if they feel they have to. They are much less likely to do so then the little ankle biters, but when they do the results can have huge consequences.
presa canera/pit bulls etc
these are overly agressive animals! they have been bred to attack. there are very few owners who can control them. any dog raised in a loving enviornment will protect his/her loved ones. again, don't move into my neighborhood with a vicious dog, you'll soon find a vicious neighbor.no one will pose a threat to my family, human or animal!
these are overly agressive animals! they have been bred to attack. there are very few owners who can control them. any dog raised in a loving enviornment will protect his/her loved ones. again, don't move into my neighborhood with a vicious dog, you'll soon find a vicious neighbor.no one will pose a threat to my family, human or animal!
TheOtherOne
Member
Okay.
TheeBadOne
Member
Unless you're experianced in raising/handling dogs I too would suggest a different breed. This is not a breed to be left to its' own devices.
http://www.presa-canario-canary-dogs.com/
http://www.presa-canario-canary-dogs.com/
Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you someone who knows even less about dogs than I do and appears to have gotten their education from the 6 o' clock news:
"these are overly agressive animals! they have been bred to attack. there are very few owners who can control them. any dog raised in a loving enviornment will protect his/her loved ones. again, don't move into my neighborhood with a vicious dog, you'll soon find a vicious neighbor.no one will pose a threat to my family, human or animal!"
"these are overly agressive animals! they have been bred to attack. there are very few owners who can control them. any dog raised in a loving enviornment will protect his/her loved ones. again, don't move into my neighborhood with a vicious dog, you'll soon find a vicious neighbor.no one will pose a threat to my family, human or animal!"
Frohickey
Member
Lupine
Member
Have a trainer help you pick
There's a lot of good advice on this thread.
No matter if you go to the pound for a mutt or a breeder for a Malinois, it's a good idea to find a reputable dog trainer--one who practices positive reinforcement methods, and who is licensed as a CPDT--to help you select a dog. A trainer can help you assess your needs and select a dog that will be receptive to learning.
I've recently put my adult dog in training with a great trainer, and I fully intend to take advantage of her knowledge when I get a second dog.
Good luck!
There's a lot of good advice on this thread.
No matter if you go to the pound for a mutt or a breeder for a Malinois, it's a good idea to find a reputable dog trainer--one who practices positive reinforcement methods, and who is licensed as a CPDT--to help you select a dog. A trainer can help you assess your needs and select a dog that will be receptive to learning.
I've recently put my adult dog in training with a great trainer, and I fully intend to take advantage of her knowledge when I get a second dog.
Good luck!
Joe Talmadge
Member
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Interesting thread. I did some looking into this myself. I came to the conclusion that breeds like the Presa are an enormous challenge, one that requires a very special owner. You're a big boy so I wouldn't condescend to lecture you either way, but I'll point out that the breed needs an owner with tremendous dog-training skills, and the repercussions to small errors in your training regiment could be extremely severe and life-changing for you and your family. You need to be honest about whether you are skilled enough and have enough time (on a permanent basis) to be up to this. Being able to train a lab is no indicator of anything, this will be a different experience entirely. If you are one of the few people up to the challenge, owning a Presa could be a rewarding experience.
For myself, I decided that if I ever got a dog along the lines being mentioned here, it would be an American Bulldog from a good working line. It's got some of the same characteristics you like in the Presa: short haired, massively strong, extremely loyal, instinctive guarding tendencies, and frankly at least as formidable as a Presa (and probably more game). On the other hand, provided you do the research to find a good working line (not too hard to do), the training regimen and aggression control will not be as challenging, though as always with such a formidable breed you must be up to it. I think I'm up to the challenges of training an AB, but not a Presa.
In the end, my next dog will more likely be something more like a Ridgeback.
Joe
For myself, I decided that if I ever got a dog along the lines being mentioned here, it would be an American Bulldog from a good working line. It's got some of the same characteristics you like in the Presa: short haired, massively strong, extremely loyal, instinctive guarding tendencies, and frankly at least as formidable as a Presa (and probably more game). On the other hand, provided you do the research to find a good working line (not too hard to do), the training regimen and aggression control will not be as challenging, though as always with such a formidable breed you must be up to it. I think I'm up to the challenges of training an AB, but not a Presa.
In the end, my next dog will more likely be something more like a Ridgeback.
Joe
standingbear
Member
auschip..that pic looks exactly like the dog my sister uses for home protection.its a good dog,very gentle around kids and is very protective of anyone or anything straying too close to the house or the children.i asked her what breed it was and got a strange reply something to the effect the romans used them long ago and the breed is a very good deterrant and fearless when provocked..ive seen it attack a rotweiler that bounded onto her property towards her kids.was gruesome sight,ruined the cookout.it went straight for the throat.
SMLE
Member
Just have to throw in my two cents. Get a Boxer. They're loyal, great with kids, protective, but smart enough to tell the good guys from the bad guys. They're fairly long lived, short haired. They are also intimidating to look at when they run to the door and bark. They will stand by and back you up while you talk to the person through the screen. Invite that person in, and they will love them like a long lost friend. If that person tries to force entry, you will see a 70 pound furry chainsaw go into action. I have lived with Boxers all my life, I think they're the best purbreed out there. As other have advised, be careful in your selection of breeder, get health checks etc.
Like I said, my two cents YMMV
Like I said, my two cents YMMV
Balog
Member
Standingbear's post reminded me of something that happened to a dog my family had named King. As far as we could tell he was part-Irish Setter, part pit-bull, part God only knows. Great dog. Kind and gentle to us kids, and very protective.
Once when my brothers were taking him for a walk, King got attacked by two Dobermans and a medium sized mutt. He threw the first Dobie through a gate in the cattle fence alongside the road, and mauled the other Dobie pretty bad before all three ran off. If he hadn't been there those feral dogs would most likely have severely injured my brothers, if not killed them outright.
Sometimes, owning a big dog that knows how to fight is a really good thing.
Once when my brothers were taking him for a walk, King got attacked by two Dobermans and a medium sized mutt. He threw the first Dobie through a gate in the cattle fence alongside the road, and mauled the other Dobie pretty bad before all three ran off. If he hadn't been there those feral dogs would most likely have severely injured my brothers, if not killed them outright.
Sometimes, owning a big dog that knows how to fight is a really good thing.
Thumper
Member
Nice looking pup. As you know, a properly socialized and well bred Presa is no more dangerous than any other dog.
Please don't pay any attention to the naysayers out there.
Those with just enough info to be comfortable projecting their ignorance really get on my nerves.
Please don't pay any attention to the naysayers out there.
Those with just enough info to be comfortable projecting their ignorance really get on my nerves.
presas
and those with just enough intelligence to be ignorant usually wind up getting thumped. check the chances and cost of obtaining home owners insurance and the local ordinances and personal bond requirements.egoism and paranoia are rampant.
and those with just enough intelligence to be ignorant usually wind up getting thumped. check the chances and cost of obtaining home owners insurance and the local ordinances and personal bond requirements.egoism and paranoia are rampant.
igor
Member
Seems you were pretty much decided when you started this thread... Now that is one adorable little dog, congratulations!
The best of luck too: your question does show you'll need it, though. And a lot more research and studying... my tip on that is, forget breed-specific stuff for a while. Just find all possible stuff on dog psychology and training and absorb enough to be able to make decisions based on your own deduction. You are in the process now and with a dog like this you don't want to make first-timers' mistakes. As a first-timer, this will be a challenge.
Enough of warnings, please don't take them personally.
Gun-shyness is an inherited trait a dog either has or hasn't and it can't really be cured if it's there. What you need to do is familiarize your pup to gunfire, what you don't want to do is give it a single bad experience of it. During the familiarization process it should always be concentrating on something pleasant, safely ignoring the noise.
I suggest going playing or doing whatever the dog concentrates in and enjoys very much, in the vicinity of a shooting range. Start several hundred yards away and work towards shooting with the dog "down" far enough behind you as not to damage its hearing.
Think, think, think.
Now that is one adorable little dog, congratulations! The best of luck too: your question does show you'll need it, though. And a lot more research and studying... my tip on that is, forget breed-specific stuff for a while. Just find all possible stuff on dog psychology and training and absorb enough to be able to make decisions based on your own deduction. You are in the process now and with a dog like this you don't want to make first-timers' mistakes. As a first-timer, this will be a challenge.
Enough of warnings, please don't take them personally.
Gun-shyness is an inherited trait a dog either has or hasn't and it can't really be cured if it's there. What you need to do is familiarize your pup to gunfire, what you don't want to do is give it a single bad experience of it. During the familiarization process it should always be concentrating on something pleasant, safely ignoring the noise.
I suggest going playing or doing whatever the dog concentrates in and enjoys very much, in the vicinity of a shooting range. Start several hundred yards away and work towards shooting with the dog "down" far enough behind you as not to damage its hearing.
Think, think, think.
Not the fault of the dog. This was a classic "nothing is ever MY fault" blissninny. She made no attempt to train the dog.
You got THAT right!I have 5 kids, from 13 down to 2 1/2, and one due in 10 days. Our last dogs were a lab and a mastiff/lab mix, and once we are into our own house again (renting now) we'll be looking for a couple of dogs. We plan to get mastiffs of some kind. Filas if I can afford them. You'll never find a breed that is more gentle and TRUSTWORTHY with children. We did a LOT of research before we got our last one. Too many tales of raising multiple children with multiple mastiffs to count, and all were VERY gentle with the children and very protective of them.
One of my own such stories:
I don't let my children abuse the pets, but sometimes toddlers are rough without meaning to be, and Dad is only so quick. My #4 was sitting on the mastiff (who was lying down) and reached over and pulled her lip back and UP - away from the gums - in both his pudgy little hands. You gotta know THAT had to hurt. The dog looked surprised and pained, whimpered a little, and rolled in the direction of the pull. That tumbled my boy and he let go. Dog gave him a 'hurt feelings' look and licked him, then settled back down. NEVER a snap or a snarl.
OTOH, if a stranger came in the yard they were in trouble. If WE brought them in, that was fine. We didn't have to train her that way - it was instinct.
'Course, her tail could do some damage. When she stareted wagging it, look out! It was like a fire hose whipping around. She'd just about break the patio door with it when we'd get home.
Thumper
Member
So you subscribe to the idea of basing your self defence tools on unfounded public opinion. That's really interesting on a gun board.
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