What effect does the choke have for 000 Buck in .410?

[TTv2]

A week ago I watched a lot of videos on .410 for defensive use and one that stuck out was Paul Harrell's video and in it he took a shot at I think 7 yards and all 5 pellets basically hit into one big hole, but at 10 yards they spread out more so it wasn't just one hole. I know his shotgun had either a full or modified choke on it and I was wondering if it was cylinder bore, would that have had any affect on the pattern? .410 is different because all the pellets are lined up in a row, so to me I doubt any choke would have an effect with 000 Buck, but IDK figured I'd ask others.

Also, what kind of pattern could be expected with a cyl. bore .410 when using birdshot? I've seen others say that even with a full choke the .410 is a 25 yd max gun with shot, so with an open choke what would be the max range? 15 or 20 yards?

 

[Roverguy]

A choke is a choke, a restrictive narrowing of the bore. While, the bore of a 410 won't allow two pellets of 00 buck to travel side by side in the bore or choke, they will be forced from a nominal bore size of .410 (.412 to .407) by .015" in a full choke, to . 370 - .320" in the choke. That tells me that shot deformation remains likely in a 410. 000 buck being slightly smaller in diameter may well have less deformation.

Due to their small payload, 410 tends to be tightly choked, mainly Mod - Full, so that the pattern remains tight enough to have killing impact. 25 yards is about where full choke patterns begin to expand significantly, depending on gun and shot shell construction. A cylinder bore 410 would likely see Bird shot patterns breaking up into low lethality patterns as early as 10 -12 yards, but only patterning will tell. The same with buck loads; only patterning will tell for sure.

The 410 bore shotgun is least suited to defense or hunting roles because of its small payloads and rapidly diminishing effectiveness past 20 yards.

 

[MEHavey]

The 410 / 0000 combo is fine (even preferred) in short-range (35 yd) medium game circumstance.

3 ea / 0.375" balls in a 2.5" AA hull w/ matching WAA shot cup loads identically as a
standard/fold-crimp 1/2-oz shot load to produce a full-choked 3-4" spread @ 30 yards.
(Choke just maintains alignment)

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Patterning my .410 with Winchester buckshot, 2.5" three 000 and 3" five 000, on 8.5x11" printed targets at 15 yards,
_ the 2.5" usually showed three holes in the target
_ the 3" typically showed two holes, seldom more.
I could have gotten some old cardboard the size of a fridge or stove to see where the 3" was patterning but decided to wasted the money on a few more boxes of 2.5 in 000 shells.

I bought the gun for shotshell mostly anyway. However there are predators on the mountain so buck or slug would be comforting.

The full choke had an internal ring at the muzzle. I have learned some shotgun chokes have a wadstripper ring for shotshell use. Accuracy with rifled slug (different brands) from clean barrel acceptable for first shot only.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

... 000 buck being slightly smaller in diameter may well have less deformation ....

000 is a step up in size over 00 which is step up in size from 0. 000 is the only buckshot size I have seen sold in .410.

Shot size numbers can seem counter intuitive.

 

[natman]

A choke is a choke, a restrictive narrowing of the bore. While, the bore of a 410 won't allow two pellets of 00 buck to travel side by side in the bore or choke, they will be forced from a nominal bore size of .410 (.412 to .407) by .015" in a full choke, to . 370 - .320" in the choke. That tells me that shot deformation remains likely in a 410. 000 buck being slightly smaller in diameter may well have less deformation.

A .410 bore minus a .015 choke is still .395" in diameter. A 00 buckshot pellet is .33" in diameter, so it should pass easily. A 000 buckshot pellet is larger than a 00, but even at .36" in diameter it should pass without problem.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have found that 00 buckshot patterns better with a full choke while 000 buckshot does better with a cylinder bore choke.

Patterning my .410 with Winchester buckshot, 2.5" three 000 and 3" five 000, on 8.5x11" printed targets at 15 yards,
_ the 2.5" usually showed three holes in the target
_ the 3" typically showed two holes, seldom more.
I could have gotten some old cardboard the size of a fridge or stove to see where the 3" was patterning but decided to wasted the money on a few more boxes of 2.5 in 000 shells.

Something is off with your shotgun then. I have no problem keeping all 5 pellets inside of a 5" circle or less out to 15 yards with my Mossberg 500 18" cylinder bore barrel or my Mossberg Shockwave 14" cylinder bore barrel. The pattern opens up to about a 10" circle at 25 yards. See my posts about the testing I did with both guns.

 

[Roverguy]

A .410 bore minus a .015 choke is still .395" in diameter. A 00 buckshot pellet is .33" in diameter, so it should pass easily. A 000 buckshot pellet is larger than a 00, but even at .36" in diameter it should pass without problem.

Yes. A rather magnificent math and shot size failure on my part.

Nevermind…

 

[WestKentucky]

I haven’t seen anybody mention wad thickness at all. 000 is .33 choke diameter is .395 so that leaves .033 thickness for wad petals which seems thin. I doubt anything bigger would work unless shot without a wad and to do that effectively you have to go straight up to a slug.

 

[TTv2]

From what I'm seeing said it doesn't look like a .410's choke has much, if any effect on how 000 Buck is going to pattern.

 

[12Bravo20]

Actually 00 buckshot is 0.33" and 000 is 0.36". I measured a few of the Claybuster 410 shot cups with 3 petals.

The average thickness of each petal is 0.018". So you have a total thickness of 0.036" added to the diameter of the buckshot.

Diameter of 000 buckshot plus the wad is 0.396"

Diameter of 00 buckshot plus the wad is 0.366"

Like I said when shooting both out of my Mossberg 500, the 00 patterns better out of a full choke than it does out of a cylinder bore choke. I have not shot any of my 000 buckshot loads out of the full choke barrel, but they pattern great out of my 14" and 18.5" cylinder bore barrels.

The following photos are of my shooting my own 3" 000 buckshot loads out of my Mossberg Shockwave with the 14" cylinder bore barrel

1 shot at 15 yards



3 shots at 25 yards



1 shot at 7 yards

 

[12Bravo20]

And speaking of slugs and other specialty rounds, The Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense rounds with the 0.41 slug and two 0.35" pellets did not do so well out of my Mossberg Shockwave compared to the 2 /12" or 3" 000 buckshot loads. And Hornady states not to shoot the Triple Defense loads in a full choke due to the 41 caliber FTX slug. I did not get any kind of consistent pattern when shooting the Hornady Triple Defense loads. I didn't even bother taking a photo of the targets.

The Winchester PDX1 shells fared a little better than the Hornady Triple Defense loads out of my Shockwave.

All were multiple shots from the Shockwave

7 yards



10 yards



15 yards




As you can see, 000 buckshot does the best in a cylinder bore barrel.

 

[TTv2]

Actually 00 buckshot is 0.33" and 000 is 0.36". I measured a few of the Claybuster 410 shot cups with 3 petals.

The average thickness of each petal is 0.018". So you have a total thickness of 0.036" added to the diameter of the buckshot.

Diameter of 000 buckshot plus the wad is 0.396"

Diameter of 00 buckshot plus the wad is 0.366"

Like I said when shooting both out of my Mossberg 500, the 00 patterns better out of a full choke than it does out of a cylinder bore choke. I have not shot any of my 000 buckshot loads out of the full choke barrel, but they pattern great out of my 14" and 18.5" cylinder bore barrels.

The following photos are of my shooting my own 3" 000 buckshot loads out of my Mossberg Shockwave with the 14" cylinder bore barrel

1 shot at 15 yards

View attachment 1015169

3 shots at 25 yards

View attachment 1015170

1 shot at 7 yards

View attachment 1015171

The .410 Shockwave is the exact gun I'm looking at getting. How's the spread at 5 yards or less?

 

[12Bravo20]

The .410 Shockwave is the exact gun I'm looking at getting. How's the spread at 5 yards or less?

The spread will be a little less than the 7 yard shot I posted above, see the third photo in post 11

 

[TTv2]

The spread will be a little less than the 7 yard shot I posted above, see the third photo in post 11

How's the recoil? How do you personally aim and shoot the Shockwave? I'm thinking with it being .410 the recoil can't be much and it wouldn't be as uncomfortable to use the bead sight.

 

[12Bravo20]

Recoil on the Shockwave is not bad at all. I will say the Winchester PDX1 shells were loaded hot and I did notice a difference between them and everything else I shot.

I shoot the Shockwave and similar type firearms by holding them up and sighting down the barrel using the push/pull method that I was taught while in the Army. Most will tell you to use that method.You hold it up like you would a regular shotgun. We used a smilier version of the Shockwave that had a 12" barrel IIRC. We used them for breeching doors vs home/self defense though.

And there is definitely a noticeable difference between shooting the Shockwave vs a standard 500 with a pistol grip attached. With the bird head grip, your hand/wrist is inline with the receiver and th recoil goes through your entire arm. On pistol gip shotguns your wrist takes most of the recoils since your hand is below the receiver.

 

[Gordon]

There are these Nobel sport 2.5" .400" three ball loads out there I bought to fire out of a Judge revolver I think they are unobtainium right now.

They were Not as good as the Federal Premium 000 four pellet 2.5" loads in my Judge-by far !

 

[12Bravo20]

Out of all the different 2 1/2" and 3" buckshot and specialty self defense loads I have tried out of my Shockwave and Model 500 with 18.5" cylinder bore barrel, 000 buckshot has done the best. In my testing 00 buckshot does very well out of a full choke barrel but opened up quite a bit in a cylinder bore choke.

 

[edwardware]

The .410 Shockwave is the exact gun I'm looking at getting.

It's your money, but. . . why?

In my ever-so-humble opinion you should buy a 12ga. If you want to reduce recoil, you can use 12ga mini-shells, and still be ahead of the cost of .410.

Recoil in 12ga isn't that bad. Held straight-arm out in front of your face so you can sight, it's similarly disruptive as a light 18" stocked shotgun, but more in your hand and none in your shoulder.

The one I played with duplicated the groups achieved by my conventional 18" cylinder bore Mossy500. You will need to put an oversize XS Sight on it.

 

[TTv2]

It's your money, but. . . why?

In my ever-so-humble opinion you should buy a 12ga. If you want to reduce recoil, you can use 12ga mini-shells, and still be ahead of the cost of .410.

Recoil in 12ga isn't that bad. Held straight-arm out in front of your face so you can sight, it's similarly disruptive as a light 18" stocked shotgun, but more in your hand and none in your shoulder.

The one I played with duplicated the groups achieved by my conventional 18" cylinder bore Mossy500. You will need to put an oversize XS Sight on it.

Why?

-.410 works just fine for home defense
-I don't trust mini shells to feed reliably even with the adapters
-I will be reloading .410 when primers get back to somewhat normal price and availability, thus price won't be a factor

 

[12Bravo20]

It's your money, but. . . why?

In my ever-so-humble opinion you should buy a 12ga. If you want to reduce recoil, you can use 12ga mini-shells, and still be ahead of the cost of .410.

Recoil in 12ga isn't that bad. Held straight-arm out in front of your face so you can sight, it's similarly disruptive as a light 18" stocked shotgun, but more in your hand and none in your shoulder.

The one I played with duplicated the groups achieved by my conventional 18" cylinder bore Mossy500. You will need to put an oversize XS Sight on it.

Why? Well why not?

A 410 is quite capable for home defense use. I think my test results prove that.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/410-mossberg-shockwave-range-results.870140/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/more-410-fun-mossberg-500-range-results.872726/

In the end, use what you like and don't look down on other people's choices.