What happened to Colt?

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Gym,
No lack of courtesy intended, but the proposals & wishes you're expressing just can't happen with Colt, and you're missing the fact (repeatedly stated) that the market is not there for what you want to see happen. :)

Penny's, Sears, and GM are different ballgames with direct walk-in retail sites (in the first two cases), multiple products, brands & lines, whereas Colt just has...Colts. Even GM marches on & doesn't build 1955 models anymore. And the long obsolete Colts would not & could not make them enough money to resurrect for a market that can't support them.

Denis
 
I suppose it is possible that the Colt Handgun Division could make a comeback if it were in different hands, but at the present time I don't think they have any potential buyers. A large part of the problem is that no one is sure who owns or controls what.

But with little faith that anything will go forward, we'll say for argument that something does. What exactly should they make?

One time I was talking to Gaston Glock and the subject turned to rumors that they were looking into making a 1911 .45 clone. "Absolute nonsense!!" he said. "We look forward, not backwards."

To succeed a resurrected Colt Company must build 21st. Century guns, not those that have roots that go back to 1908, 1911 or 1873. What was before is now history. No investment group or single investor with any knowledge of the firearms industry is going to remotely consider reintroducing Colt's former line of hand ejector/double-action revolvers. The name of the game is money. The purpose of the business is to make money. Colt's revolvers were some of the finest ever made, but that was then and this is now and we live in different times.
 
I could only have put that better if I'd written it myself. :)
Denis
 
Colt doesn't need a savior like Lampert. Savior, that was a joke.

"Eddie Lambert, make their lifes work restructuring major companys like Pennys ,Sears, GM etc."

Lampert, his name is Lampert, has driven Sears/KMart into a deep ditch. He's bought back shares for more than they're worth, closed hundreds of stores, cut per store investment (upkeep, upgrades, etc.) to an industry low, and is working on what, 5 or 10 years of increasing losses?

Give me a break. Read the reviews. He can't prop up the stock price forever and if he keeps closing stores where he generate any income?

Here, I'll give you a link http://money.msn.com/investment-advice/why-sears-is-on-its-last-legs-brush.aspx

"Sears' same-store sales have been in decline for six straight years. The trend continued in the fourth quarter, when U.S. same store sales fell 5.2%"

Lampert took over in 2005.

John
 
Understood, Theywould need to innovate as they once did and come up with new products. It is a large gamble, I wonder if they have prototypes that they just didn't have the cash to get into production, Guess we will never know.
Hasent been anything really "new" in quite some time, other than that Rhino. More rifles have been re designed like those german and Austrian assault rifles, even british, than we have done in recent years, the Barrett had a show on last night showing their new guns, they take so long to get approval, "up to 10 years" that by then they are already old. They showed that new rifle that fired a round someware between a cannon and a rifle round. It explodes at a set distance and releases projectiles down to the enemy below.
I remember way back when we worked on targeting systems for f16's that caused the round to explode at a certain distance and rpm.Safer for things you didn't want to destroy, I guess they are adapting the same technology to a rifle now. 40 years later.Also this,Barrett’s New MRAD (Multi-Role Adaptive Design) Long-Range Precision Rifle

Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2011/01/15/barrett-mrad-rifle-2/#ixzz1yu4nFsvF
also this is the one that works on spiral rotations.
The XM25 CDTE fires 25 mm grenades that are set to explode in mid-air at or near the target. This principal has been around since I worked in the business 40-45 yrs ago, and now is being adapted to real world ground operations.
They could use another player in that arena also. There aren't many American companies that have their foot in the door other than just makinhg more AR type rifles. Just saying.
 
Theorteically Colt could have made the Caracal. It would have meant courting Wilhelm Bubits, spending millions in funding the research, design and testing, investing millions in the production facility.

But theoretically they could have done it, if they could have come up with the investors.

The issue though then becomes where is the market?

UAE obviously has a built-in market for the Caracal - UAE's military and police forces. They also have an inside advantage in selling an arab-built sidearm to arab nations that are friendly to the UAE.

While Caracal looks like it stumbled in marketing, at least initially in the U.S. civilian market, it's been more than busy getting the Caracal out to various Middle-East countries.

Colt would have had none of that.

I'm thinking, nevermind the fact that the Colt technlogy we're talking about resurecting is 100 years old. Even if they had a modern product like the Caracal - as much as U.S. shooters really like the Caracal when they get their hands on one, is there enough of a civilian market to support a ROI even if Colt had come up with a modern design?
 
A very old topic and the answers and logic haven't changed. Prior to the labor issues and management problems and yes, heavy competition from S&W and Ruger, Colt could not continue to make a product like the Python (ie) that had hand fitted parts and one incredible finish procees (bluing chemistry changed and polishing techniques as well) at a substantial profit. While the Python has often been called the "Cadillac or Rolls Royce" of the Colt swing out cylinder revolver line there were also a number of other models that rivaled and exceeded the smooth trigger and accuracy. The Officers Model Match was as well made and accurate a Colt as I've ever owned and shot.
Reliability, quality of workmanship and durability will always be associated with the Colt revolver line prior to the 1980's (my cutoff timeline only). I stated in another thread how the Police Positive (multiple calibers), the Police Positive Special .38 Spcl and the Official Police were cradled in LE/Bank Security/Military/etc holsters as the norm because these fixed sight revolvers were well engineered, manufactured, could take a licking and continue to operate as accurately as the guy pulling the trigger.
The New Service model was/is a large framed revolver that saw military duty as the 1909 and 1917 but the civilain version was no slouch and very well balanced in the medium length barrels (I prefer the 4" but that's just me).
There will also always be the "snubby" comparison. Having handled and shot these little fellers from Charter Arms, S&W, Taurus and the like I've always preferred the Detective Special. My preference pure and simple.
A parting thought.....every Colt revolver I own would/could turn a profit from what I paid had I the heart to part with any of them. That decision will have to be made by my heirs after I'm dust and a distant memory ;)
 
I wonder if they have prototypes that they just didn't have the cash to get into production, Guess we will never know.
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Sure we do. They took everything they had from the late 1930's through about 2010, and sold them all at auction to get some cash. Your jaw whould have dropped to the floor and your eyeballs would be spinning if you'd seen some of them.

It wasn't that they didn't have anything, but rather that they didn't act on it. Sometimes because of lack of funding, but often because management at the time was absolutely brain-dead. The ones at the top were number cruncher's with no knowledge of the handgun business. One CEO told me, with pride in his voice, that "he personally would never own a gun." :banghead:
 
There is intrinsic value in many or these companys, that the public at large is unaware of. Thus the parabolic move from under 20 to 200, in SHLD, I believe it split as I recall it higher than that at one point around 400, when I was trading it, "regaurdless of if I put a, "b" where a P should be in lampert. Before the thread gets closed down, because we should not be talking about stocks, other than those that directlly are affected by guns of visa versa. There may be a lot of value in Colt, just for the "brand name", it is worth money to people the world over.
As it equates to guns, it shows they grew up with to the name Colt. You can't puit a high enough price on a brand like that. I think that if someone came in and took over that end of the company, it could capture the market as has happened on prior endeavors.
To just dismiss it I believe is a mistake. And as mentioned if a new company can make a revolver and sell it to where it's back ordered, "like the auto pistols are" "pocketlight, mustang" for $900.00, on GB. the market could be stimulated once again.
I defer to old Fluff as far as demand goes, they need to do some market analysis, first just to test the waters. "maybe they have", but it sounds like whoever is behind the wheel, doesn't really care. That's why someone coming in and buying the revolver section with all theit patents could be so important. But it's just speculation on my part, and perhaps no one wants what I have described. That's why we have discussions, you never know where they will lead.
 
I'm surprised that Colt hasn't sublicensed rights to someone else (like with the Colt Rimfire products and Walther) or someone else hasn't looked to try and acquire them.
 
When an attempt was made some years ago to buy the Peacemaker rights & move production elsewhere, Colt's answer was "That gun's always been made in Hartford and it always will be." No dice, no sale.

Colt's not about to license out the classics that are so deeply iconic of the company's name & those that ARE making at least some sort of profit, and as far as the older DA revolvers go, again- just not enough market.

It all comes back to the bottom line- money.
Nobody at Colt sees a profit in the older designs, and nobody in the US outside of Colt sees a profit in them.

What startup company in their right mind would tie up the money necessary to tool up & build those guns at quality levels equal to Colt's older standards, knowing they couldn't price them low enough to sell in volume, the younger market doesn't care, and the older market would gripe about the prices if quality were commensurate & gripe about the quality if it were lowered to reduce the pricing structure?
Not to mention the "It's not a REAL Colt!" group that'd immediately reject a licensed copy.

Licensing isn't strictly needed, anyway. The designs are long out of either patent or trade dress protection, as long as they're not labelled with Colt's model names.
USFA announced their intended production of the .22 Woodsman (which they did obtain the Woodsman labelling rights for) when, four years ago?
Another relatively expensive-to-produce (even with CNC) Colt design with limited market appeal to compete with mass-produced Rugers & Brownings that'd be selling for half of what the Woodsman would go for.

You see how far that went.
Denis
 
Wow; I just got back in town and to internet access again...I never expected so many responses...

It's disheartening to see so many people opine that the market wouldn't support an expensive premium revolver like the Python. I'd pay the $1500 for it...or more.

Wish more folks would.

What a waste of a once-great company.
 
Well I guess we little fish will just sit back and see what the" powers that be", decide to do, "if anything", thanks for an interesting discussion.
I wish they would bring back the colt 32 and the 380, 1903 hammerless pistol. That flat gun was a sexy little beast. Why doesn't someone rip that one off and make it again, if the patents are expired, I think everyone wants one in flawless shape.
 
I wish they would bring back the colt 32 and the 380, 1903 hammerless pistol. That flat gun was a sexy little beast. Why doesn't someone rip that one off and make it again, if the patents are expired, I think everyone wants one in flawless shape.
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Wish away, but the thin, wall thickness around the magazine well doesn’t work well when using modern manufacturing techniques. Made otherwise it would be priced out of the market place. That, and the company's lawyers (or those with the liability insurance carrier) would have a holy fit if it didn't have a positive hammer or firing pin block. As I said, we live in different times. You and I have the same problem, we were born a bit too late.

Among the early post-war prototypes previously mentioned were several that showed Colt's thinking of a replacement, and they were interesting, but nothing happened. Supposedly the top brass were worried about the passage of new anti-concealed weapons laws destroying the market.
 
You are right O,F, the only thing I would miss is airconditioning, but then again I wouldn't know about it. I love all those old single action cowboy guns also. Like the colt "hand of god" the 45 long colt that Crow used in 3:10 to Yuma. Now that is a fine piece of elegant yet useful workmanship.
There was a member here who I spoke to several times on the phone who had an ucanny recolletion of every revolver that colt made, for as far back as I can remember. He was just an interesting gent. It was so long ago that his name escapes me, at the time I was looking for a -2 ,or -3 model 19. He knew just about everything including who more than likelly assembled the gun at the factory.
I am sure you are of a similar mind.
Single Action Army revolvers are carried by several characters in the film, most notably Ben Wade (Russell Crowe), whose gun has custom grips with gold crosses, nicknamed "The Hand of God". The gun is said to be cursed as anyone who touches it other than Wade dies. Wade keeps the gun in a special holster designed by Will Ghormley to have the old time look mixed with the advantages of modern quickdraw holsters (see here for more information). Crowe was trained in the film by Thell Reed, a world renowned quick draw shooter labeled "Fastest Gun Alive" by the Colt company, who has worked as a weapons trainer in many films.
 
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I believe you'd find Crowe's gun was a fine piece of Uberti workmanship, if you researched it. :)
Genuine Colt Model Ps are rarely used on film nowdays, when a producer or prop house can get two Italians to beat up for less than one Hartford.
Denis
 
I am forced to admit, with great shame, that I was able to buy a set of DVD's with both the original Glen Ford 3:10 to Yuma as well as the later remake with Russell Crowe - and I haven't looked at them!!!

This outrage will be soon corrected... :evil:
 
Saw the original back when you were just plain Fuff. :)
No interest in the remake.
Denis
 
The Colt "facility" is 5 miles from where I'm sitting. Supposed to employ about 70 folks. Everything is hush except for rumors, which are worth nothing. Fuff said a ways back that maybe Colt can't produce an $800 Python. They sure can't in Connecticut paying UAW scale that's about $75/hr with benefits. Now with machinists making $25/hr (which is mucho dinero around these parts) it might be possible. Theory- 60 guys making 300 Pythons a week (1 unit per man per day) working 40 hrs @ $75 hr= $600 labor/ unit. 60 guys making the same 300 Pythons a wk @ $25/hr= $200 labor/unit. I'd love a chance to do it, but at almost 60Y/O, they ain't looking for my type of "talent." Joe
 
But in addition to the shop labor you need to add all of the other employees that would be needed, then there are taxes and other overhead, and don't forget maybe $500,000 development and tooling costs. and then...

Your numbers don't even come close to what the totals would be...
 
Read in a magazine today that Trunbull is doing the finishing for the Colt New Frontier.

With 70 people, Colt is assembling guns from outsourced pieces, the primary work has to be subcontracted out.

Used to be Colt did everything in house. Forge shop, machine shop, finishing and polishing.

The 45 LC Colt New Frontier being reviewed, the chamber mouths are .456". The author mentioned 6 inch groups at 25 yards with .452 lead bullets.

Colt can't even get the throat diameters correct.

My Rugers were 0.452" and shot everything into a knot at 25 yards.

Six inch groups: Bah!
 
My numbers are "FMA". I was merely postulating that it is more "doable" here in this state than where they currently are. Joe
Click to expand...

Which is unquestionably true, but even with the "Florida advantage" they can't make money building Pythons.

Maybe China... Any takers??
 
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