What is it? 4477 questions

[jmorris]

Reading another thread I had posted a question that was deleted but the question remains and outside the context of that thread might make it to someone that knows the answer.

When a firearm is purchased, what it is, is recorded on the 4477 upon purchase as handgun, long gun or other (frame, receiver).

If a firearm was purchased as a long gun and noted on a 4477 and is subsequently disassembled, does that instantly make it an “other” or is it still a long gun?

Also, IIRC the “other” choice hasn’t always been on the 4477, I know it’s been there on the last two revisions but does anyone know when it was added?

 

[12Bravo20]

What matters is what how the firearm was first built as. If it was built first as a rifle, then it must stay a rifle. If it was built as a pistol first, then it can go back and forth between a pistol and rifle. Again it must have been built as a pistol first to swap back and forth.

If a firearm was purchased as a long gun and noted on a 4477 and is subsequently disassembled, does that instantly make it an “other” or is it still a long gun?

To answer your question, It would still be a rifle since it was first built as a rifle.

It really doesn't matter how the 4473 is marked, what matters is how the firearm was first built as.

TO EDIT/CLARIFY: It matters how the firearm was originally first. You can NOT always go by what the FFL marks on the 4473 since FFL's have been known to mark the wrong box.

 

[AlexanderA]

If it was built first as a rifle, then it must stay a rifle.

Well, technically, it could be made into a pistol after filing a Form 1, paying the $200 "making" tax, and waiting for approval. In fact, it's this aspect that gives the provision "teeth." You could be convicted of tax evasion if you first built a stripped lower into a rifle and then made it into a pistol, and the authorities could prove you did so.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Reading another thread I had posted a question that was deleted but the question remains and outside the context of that thread might make it to someone that knows the answer.

When a firearm is purchased, what it is, is recorded on the 4477 upon purchase as handgun, long gun or other (frame, receiver)....

This is a good question (just not on-topic in the other thread).

What matters is what how the firearm was first built as. If it was built first as a rifle, then it must stay a rifle. If it was built as a pistol first, then it can go back and forth between a pistol and rifle. Again it must have been built as a pistol first to swap back and forth.
....
To answer your question, It would still be a rifle since it was first built as a rifle.

It really doesn't matter how the 4473 is marked, what matters is how the firearm was first built as.

I've done some research, and it appear that how the 4473 is filled out and what can legally be done with a firearm as far as pistol->rifle->pistol conversions are separate matters. (Remember that I always say the law is non-intuitive.)

The following analysis is based solely on federal law. State law must also be considered, and state law can only be more restrictive. Federal law is the "floor" (18 USC 927).

1. The 4473 is used in the transfer of a firearm. It distinguishes among "long guns (rifles or shotguns)", "handguns", and "other firearms" because different rules can apply. For example, under federal law a handgun or other firearm may not be transferred to someone under 21 years of age.
   
   
   • See the instructions for question 16 on the 4473 (quoting the 2016 revision):
     

     ...If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, frames and receivers are still "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms, See Section 922(a)(3)(B),...Since a freame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or a rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21, nor can these firearms be transferred to anyone who is not a resident of the State where the transfer is to take place...

     
     
   • It appears that ATF would expect an FFL to complete question 16 based on what he has in hand. In the case of a used item the FFL would not necessarily know for sure how the firearm was initially transferred. For example, if the firearm being transferred is a stripped AR15 receiver, the FFL can't necessarily know for sure whether it was initially transferred to the first owner from the manufacturer as a bare receiver or it was a "take off" from a gun originally made as a rifle (either by a manufacturer or by the guy who bought it as a virgin receiver).
     
     
   • But that would also mean the what is said on the 4473 cannot conclusively establish what can legally be done as far as a pistol<->rifle conversion, at least in the case of a 4473 documenting a transfer of a previously owned firearm.
   
   
2. The ATF rule on pistol<->rifle conversions grew out of the decision of the Supreme Court in
   United States v. Thompson Center Arms Company, 112 S.Ct. 2102, 504 U.S. 505, 119 L.Ed.2d 308 (1992). Those rules are reflected in ATF Rul. 2011-4.
   
   
   • Those rules are based on the applicable definitions in the various statutes and regulations relevant to the question.
     
     
   • So, for example, 27 CFR 479.11(a) defines "firearm" subject to the NFA to include (emphasis added):
     

     ...a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;...

     
     
   • And thus a conversion of a rifle to a pistol (or to any weapon with an overall length less than 26 inches and a barrel less than 16 inches) necessarily results in a weapon subject to the NFA.
   
   
3. In any event, whether a pistol<->rifle conversion is legal (without NFA formalities) depends on the actual facts. However, as explained above, a transfer on a 4473 might not accurately reflect the actual, material facts.

 

[12Bravo20]

I will clarify what I meant when I said that what was marked on the 4473 does not matter.

It has been proven that if a FFL marks the wrong box, it does NOT change what type of firearm was actually transferred. IF the FFL transfers a rifle and marks either "pistol" or "other" on the 4473, he still transferred a rifle. Same as if the FFL transfers a pistol and marks it as "rifle" or "other", it is still a pistol that was transferred.

Another example is when people buy a stripped receiver. It should be marked as "other" on the 4473 but is not always marked as such. Some dealers mark the 4473 wrong by marking "rifle" even though they transferred a stripped receiver that can be built into a pistol or rifle.


OP, your question has been answered and Frank linked actual federal law.

Remember. First a rifle = always a rifle. If you decide to make a pistol from a rifle then you cross over into NFA territory which is another game all together.

 

[waterhouse]

As Frank stated, it is my job to mark the 4473 box for whatever is in my hand. If a frame or receiver shows up, I check “other” regardless of what its unknown past history may have been. If a rifle shows up, I check “long gun” even if it was transferred as a receiver 10 years ago.

 

[Texas10mm]

There's another layer of this.

Let's say Brand X AR maker never built any pistols or sold bare receivers. You come into possession of a stripped Brand X lower, and purchase it through an FFL who marks it as "other".

You build a pistol on it.

You've just broken the law because there's no way that was ever anything but a rifle.

 

[AlexanderA]

In terms of practicality, this is on a par with 18 U.S.C. 922(r) (foreign parts). Such a case would be difficult to prove, and I doubt that there have have been any prosecutions for consumer-level violations. We like to debate these things on gun boards, but this is something that's not a real-world problem.

 

[dogtown tom]

Well, technically, it could be made into a pistol after filing a Form 1, paying the $200 "making" tax, and waiting for approval. In fact, it's this aspect that gives the provision "teeth."

Nope.
"Pistol" is not a type of NFA firearm.
A firearm made from a rifle is a Short Barreled Rifle........even if it has no shoulder stock.

SBR and SBS are about configuration.
If you have a firearm that was originally a rifle or shotgun, later made into an NFA SBR or SBS, it can be reconfigured to Title I status.
Same with a pistol that was later made into an NFA SBR, later it can be reconfigured as a Title I pistol.

ATF asks that they be notified when an SBR/SBS is no longer in NFA configuration, but its not required. ATF would note on the Registry that the firearm is no longer an SBR/SBS but does not remove the firearm from the Registry.


I

 

[dogtown tom]

There's another layer of this.

Let's say Brand X AR maker never built any pistols or sold bare receivers. You come into possession of a stripped Brand X lower, and purchase it through an FFL who marks it as "other".

You build a pistol on it.

You've just broken the law because there's no way that was ever anything but a rifle.

I asked my ATF IOI how would a buyer know if his used stripped lower had been first assembled a rifle......he just repeated "a lower, receiver, frame is recorded as Other Firearm".
ATF knows it would lose for the same reasons it lost vs Thompson Center.