What is the ARGUMENT for why one in chamber is dangerous?

[newbie4help]

I carry glock, have recently started with 1 in chamber.

I understand it's controversial and many of you think you should or should not carry with 1 in chamber.
I understand that.

What I want to hear is, not what you think is right, or both sides of argument. I only want to hear what the argument is for NOT carrying one in chamber? What is the scenario people are worried about? Is it shooting yourself on accident while still in holster? Is it shooting yourself on accident while drawing? Is it shooting a supposed threat too quickly? What is it?

 

[highorder]

Anything that touches the trigger can discharge a round.

Some people are afraid that something other than their finger will touch the trigger... as they draw?

Any holster for a striker fired pistol should cover the trigger guard.

 

[newbie4help]

See, that's what I thought the fear was.

the only problem is, the angle is wrong. As you draw out, you're going UP, not down (if you're going down, yes, there is a danger of clothing that you need to watch out for). So even if something did get into the guard, it will not pull the trigger unless you are going down.

I suppose you could catch something going up and then as you go horizontally toward the target it could go off - but that point it's pointed away from you! It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Claude Clay]

one NOT in the chamber is akin to turning off your get-away car--

when you NEED to go it needs to be ready

 

[Kindrox]

I think in a glock the issue is very little force must be exerted to pull the trigger to the firing point. "The gun slips, you grab, bang" issues. I would not let my wife carry a loaded glock in her CCW for example.

Of course there are lots of folks who don't believe in carrying any gun with one in the pipe. There is a thread in the handgun forum where guys are advocating an empty chamber AND the safety engaged I am guessing a lot of those folks also keep a trigger lock for extra safe carry.

I think carrying a glock with one in the pipe can be done, but with a little extra care and precation over other firearms, as Plaxico found out.

 

[newbie4help]

Plaxico was carrying **in his wasitband** That's a disaster waiting to happen. Gun slips, he grabs, predictable *bang*. If your holster slips otoh, you're safe.

It's foolish to carry any SA especially glock in anything but a holster.

I'm thinking of getting one of those trigger plugs for glocks that you can pop out with your finger if you need it, but blocks the trigger otherwise. Just one added layer of safety along with keeping gun pointed in safe direction and finger off trigger.

 

[laguna0seca]

I wont carry anything without a holster, glock or otherwise. The thing i worry about most is when i holster my glock. I just make sure that my shirt and other clothing is out of the way when i am holstering.

 

[highorder]

If you don't feel comfortable carrying a gun in the manner in which it was designed, DON'T carry that gun. Find something suitable for you.

Otherwise, carry a Glock with a round in the chamber, and /or carry a 1911 in Condition 1.


I like the guys that advocate carrying a sixgun with a few blanks, then shot shells, then some actual lead. Why bother?

 

[scottgun]

Glocks are not single action. Its sort of a combination between SA and DA

Glock describes their action design as "safe-action," and it has characteristics of both single- and double-action designs.
Like a single-action, chambering a round sets the striker (firing pin) mechanism, but like a double-action that striker is pulled back farther by pulling the trigger.

The idea behind the design was to have a shorter and lighter trigger pull than a DA gun, but not to have a fully cocked striker ready to fall like a SA gun, without requiring a manual safety like SA guns.

The best answer is to practice holstering, drawing and reholstering with you Glock unloaded. Double check the chamber, use you pinky and check again, then with the unloaded gun go through all the motions. You will find that there's really no other way for the trigger to get pulled other than by actively putting your finger in the trigger guard and pulling the trigger.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Yes there are increased risks of discharge with any weapon with such a light trigger pull, like a Glock. But those risks can easily be mitigated with using proper equipment, and your brain. Get a holster that covers the trigger well completely, and when re-holstering, make sure you clear any obstructions such as retention straps or clothing from the holster.

The only time I leave the chamber empty is when my pistol is in something without a holster, like a backpack or the like. When I first started carrying, I carried chamber empty as well. It was simple fear. I think this happens with a lot of people. But just carrying for a while, and talking to people on THR helped me overcome that fear and I now carry like most others, with one in the pipe.

Get a good holster, keep your brain turned on, and you should be fine.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I carry my Beretta 92FS WITHOUT a round in the chamber. It's necessary for me several times a week, typically, to unload and reload my gun in public. It's a lot easier to drop the mag and stuff the pistol and mag into two different locations without unchambering a live round, and it's less unnerving to fellow passengers or companions when I cram the mag into the well and stuff the pistol down my back than it would be if I stood there and chambered a round. It takes at most a half second to chamber a round. Doing so immediately before a SD shoot has three side benefits: (1) it assures you 100% that the gun is loaded with a round in the chamber and ready to go, (2) it alerts your assailant audibly and visually that YES, you have a gun, it is real, it is loaded, and it is pointed at him, and (3) it makes your first shot a single-action shot. This last is a great advantage.

Notice none of these reasons are even remotely related to safety.

 

[sm]

Safety is between the ears, not some feature on or not on a firearm.

I attribute the discombobulation to the dumbing down of society, perpetuated by The Great Society.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Notice none of these reasons are even remotely related to safety.

I would argue that they are related in that they increase the level of safety for the bad guy attacking you, even if by the slightest margin. They also effect your safety in the instance of a failure to feed, even if that is a cosmically rare occurence.

I do understand your points on convenience for you however. Another benefit you didn't mention is the avoidance of bullet setback caused by chambering the same round many times. Even though it's basically a non-issue assuming you can occasionally buy more ammo, if you're in the minority on a stance, you can use all of the circumstancial help you can get.

 

[highorder]

I carry my Beretta 92FS WITHOUT a round in the chamber. It's necessary for me several times a week, typically, to unload and reload my gun in public. It's a lot easier to drop the mag and stuff the pistol and mag into two different locations without unchambering a live round, and it's less unnerving to fellow passengers or companions when I cram the mag into the well and stuff the pistol down my back than it would be if I stood there and chambered a round. It takes at most a half second to chamber a round. Doing so immediately before a SD shoot has three side benefits: (1) it assures you 100% that the gun is loaded with a round in the chamber and ready to go, (2) it alerts your assailant audibly and visually that YES, you have a gun, it is real, it is loaded, and it is pointed at him, and (3) it makes your first shot a single-action shot. This last is a great advantage.

I have to respectfully disagree with your thought process. But first, questions:

It's necessary for me several times a week, typically, to unload and reload my gun in public.

This requires clarification. If you are a regular person with a CCW, No one should ever see your weapon. If you are acting in the line of duty, who cares who sees you? Perhaps you should define "public." Where are you going that you are allowed to have your weapon, but not have it loaded?

(2) it alerts your assailant audibly and visually that YES, you have a gun, it is real, it is loaded, and it is pointed at him,

Too much TV. Will you be exchanging one-liners too?

(3) it makes your first shot a single-action shot. This last is a great advantage.

Thats a great disadvantage. Unless you are VERY experienced, a single action trigger is more likely to be acidentially pulled than a double action pull. DA pull is a safety feature in my book, not a shortcomming.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I suppose it might minutely increase risk, though that risk is offset by the advantage gained from the single-action first shot.

I would feel very unprotected not being able to carry under some circumstances in which I find myself on a regular basis. But those situations do not generally involve the possibility of sudden attack at close range.

I can arm myself against the vast majority of situations calling for a gun, and keep the chamber empty. I cannot arm myself against all possibilities, including being shot from an unseen location by long range rifle. That doesn't mean I haven't armed myself appropriately against those threats I consider real and which I can do something about. I just don't consider a little old lady whipping out a gun at two foot distance a very realistic threat.

 

[scottgun]

Not having a round in the chamber also requires the use of two hands in the event of using for self defense. Two hands aren't always available when things are going really bad. That extra half second it takes to chamber a round is a half second less you have to react to a very fast moving situation.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

highorder: "This requires clarification. If you are a regular person with a CCW, No one should ever see your weapon. If you are acting in the line of duty, who cares who sees you? Perhaps you should define "public.""

For example, entering certain types of buildings requires one to leave the gun in a locked deposit box or with security. Or in your car.

highorder: "Too much TV. Will you be exchanging one-liners too?"

Absolutely. Specifically, "Stop!"

highorder: "Thats a great disadvantage. Unless you are VERY experienced, a single action trigger is more likely to be acidentially pulled than a double action pull."

Are you serious? Single action is lighter-pull, and accordingly much more accurate. Have YOU ever accidentally pulled a single action trigger?

 

[Duke of Doubt]

scottgun: "Not having a round in the chamber also requires the use of two hands in the event of using for self defense."

Many surfaces, and your own jaws if necessary, may be used to rack a slide.

 

[NavyLCDR]

(1) it assures you 100% that the gun is loaded with a round in the chamber and ready to go

HOW? In a SD situation where seconds count, I personally, would not want to rely upon a manual action conducted upon a mechanical device to function correctly 100% of the time when my life depended upon it.

I would rather deal with a FTF in the comfort of my own home or locked vehicle rather than in front of a perpetrator who is meaning to do me grave bodily harm.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

NavyLT: "HOW? In a SD situation where seconds count, I personally, would not want to rely upon a manual action conducted upon a mechanical device to function correctly 100% of the time when my life depended upon it."

What I mean is, unless your pistol has a loaded chamber indicator, you cannot be 100% positive that your gun is loaded and a round chambered at the moment you draw, unless you chamber a round right then. You may be pretty sure, maybe 99% sure, but people make msitakes and you cannot know for 100% certain.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What I want to hear is, not what you think is right, or both sides of argument. I only want to hear what the argument is for NOT carrying one in chamber? What is the scenario people are worried about?

1. Is it shooting yourself on accident while still in holster?
2. Is it shooting yourself on accident while drawing?
3. Is it shooting a supposed threat too quickly? What is it?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

None of the above, however, are fears that I have for my gun, so I carry with one in the chamber.

 

[CoRoMo]

What is the ARGUMENT for why one in chamber is dangerous?

The argument goes like this...

Guns are bad. Guns kill people. Guns should be banned.
If you're insane enough to carry a gun, you're even more nuts if a round is chambered.
You're a bad person and you should be locked up if you do.​

 

[NavyLCDR]

NavyLT: "HOW? In a SD situation where seconds count, I personally, would not want to rely upon a manual action conducted upon a mechanical device to function correctly 100% of the time when my life depended upon it."

What I mean is, unless your pistol has a loaded chamber indicator, you cannot be 100% positive that your gun is loaded and a round chambered at the moment you draw, unless you chamber a round right then. You may be pretty sure, maybe 99% sure, but people make msitakes and you cannot know for 100% certain.

I chamber the round before I leave the house. I verify the round is chambered both by the loaded chamber indicator and by pulling back the slide back far enough just to observe the loaded round being extracted from the chamber and then return the slide to full battery. The firearm never leaves my presence in my holster until I am done carrying. To me that is 100% certain, without any possibility of doubt, the round is chambered when I draw from my holster.

Much less chance of making a mistake when there is time to perform a function with no pressure and with time to double check the maneuver then in a stressful environment under threat of loss of life within a time limit that may be a fraction of a second.

But, all we can do is present our own opinions, and, ultimately, I am not counting upon your firearm to save my life, I am counting on my firearm to save my life, so I would encourage anyone to carry how it makes them feel comfortable, so long as they do carry. I know the condition of my sidearm, I really, in all reality, am not concerned about the condition of others' sidearms

 

[highorder]

For example, entering certain types of buildings requires one to leave the gun in a locked deposit box or with security. Or in your car.

In that circumstance, the people that are afraid when they see you manipulating your weapon have no idea what you are doing... they just see GUN. As for in your car, who sees that? the occupants? If thats the case, they should understand, or not care. It depends on who you have in the car...

Absolutely. Specifically, "Stop!"

Thanks, I laughed. wit met with wit

Are you serious? Single action is lighter-pull, and accordingly much more accurate. Have YOU ever accidentally pulled a single action trigger?

I understand the accuracy gained by SA pull, but that has nothing to do with accidental discharge.

I have never accidentally pulled the trigger on my 1911, but I have also NEVER had it pointed at someone in a high adrenaline self defense situation. Its a real possibility.

Just one guys thoughts, respectfully.

I chamber the round before I leave the house. I verify the round is chambered both by the loaded chamber indicator and by pulling back the slide back far enough just to observe the loaded round being extracted from the chamber and then return the slide to full battery. The firearm never leaves my presence in my holster until I am done carrying. To me that is 100% certain, without any possibility of doubt, the round is chambered when I draw from my holster.

I use this method of certainty as well.

 

[Gunship69]

Wow! I can't believe some of the posts I have seen here. People afraid to carry a round in the chamber because of fear the gun might go off? If you are "afraid" of your gun, then you should not be carrying it! The average gunfight last somewhere around 2.4 seconds. Remember, a bad guy will already have HIS weapon out, whether it's a gun, knife, bat, etc. If you think you can get your weapon out, rack the slide with your jaw, and get off a good shot in less than 2.4 seconds, you must be a better man than me.