What is the limiting factor of 30-30?

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Name a one other cartridge introduced before 1900 that has sold more rifles chambered for it in the last 117 years and I'll eat them for breakfast in the morning.

Yea!
Thats obsolete before it ws introduced all right!

rc
 
"Speer 12" 1994:
"Some bolt-action and single-shot rifles have been chambered for this cartridge. Reloaders can sue spritzer-type bullets in these rifles, but should keep the weight to 150 grains or less. Heavier spritzer bullets cannot be drive fast enough in the 30-30 to expand reliably. We are occasionally asked if the 30-30 can be loaded to higher velocities in a modern bolt action like the Remington model 788. The answer is NO! The 30-30 case is an old design with relatively thin walls. Attempting to load "hotter" would risk a dangerous case failure."

I have cross sectioned a few brands of 30-30 brass, and they all look like they are good for 85kpsi.
Speer maybe did some Hunter Thompson Geronimo journalism?

I have a number of 30-30 rifles, and the Win 94 and Marlin 336 and Sav 840 bolt action don't look like they are not built to take much pressure at all. The 30-30 is SAAMI registered at 42,000 psi and 54.6 k to 58.8 kpsi proof loads.
No way am I shooting a 58.8 kpsi with one of those next to me.

The early and late Sav 219 and the Handi rifle look a lot better.
I have converted a Mosin Nagant to 30-30, and it looks strong.
 
Easy on recoil, easy to shoot, handy rifle platform, plenty of power for deer out to 200 yards, perfectly reasonable (+/- 3 inches or so) trajectory out to 200 yards (the outer limits of my shooting skills anyway), low ammunition cost...

I'm not sure whether I just described 30-30 or 7.62x39, but I prefer the 30-30. 30-30 has a little bit more power and my Marlin 336 is a handy accurate platform for it. I'd take a 336 in 30-30 for a deer hunt over an AK or SKS in 7.62x39 any day.

I think the limiting factor of 30-30 is flexibility on the game pursued. Sure, 30-30's have been taken on elk hunts, but that doesn't make it a great idea. It doesn't take a 30-06 to kill a deer dead, but some prefer 30-06 for that application, or want their one rifle to be suitable for game larger than deer.
 
Name a one other cartridge introduced before 1900 that has sold more rifles chambered for it in the last 117 years and I'll eat them for breakfast in the morning.

Yea!
Thats obsolete before it ws introduced all right!

rc
Agreed. If a chambering as old as the 30-30 is now is still hitting the market, is readily available, and new rifles are still made based on the platform (well, new-old rifles) then I couldn't justify calling it phased out. It's a blatant fallacy.
 
Not to get nerdy, but one of the definitions of obsolete is:

"no longer in general use; fallen into disuse"

Another:

"of a discarded or outmoded type"

So while it is not the round with the biggest bang or greatest fps, I could not call it obsolete. It will still kill any game it hits and has a proven track record.
 
Not to get nerdy, but one of the definitions of obsolete is:

"no longer in general use; fallen into disuse"

Another:

"of a discarded or outmoded type"

So while it is not the round with the biggest bang or greatest fps, I could not call it obsolete. It will still kill any game it hits and has a proven track record.
You go ahead & get nerdy & tell em, ain`t no way the .30-30 Winchester is obsolete & it still has plenty of potential............
 
It seems some people have different definitions of the word "obsolete." I tend to think that if something still has a use, even though out performed, it doesn't mean it's obsolete. I haven't looked up the dictionary though so perhaps I'm off.
 
In terms of performance 30-30 was obsolete 6 years before it was even introduced.

By 1890 we had both the 7x57 and the 7.65x53mm Mauser. Two cartridges that are every bit the equal to 308 and 7mm08

Just because it was popular doesn't mean that it wasn't obsolete. Just like lots of folks still like to have a wristwatch on their arm while they have a smartphone in their pocket.

Of course none of this detract from 30/30's knack for killing game at practical ranges with a minimum of fuss.

A 20" 30-30 will launch a 150 grain bullet 2300 fps on average

A 20" 7.62x39 will launch a 154 grain bullet 2150 fps

That's less difference than you get between 308 to 30/06 or in other words pretty much the same.

I agree, in terms of performance the 30-30 was outclassed by these Mauser rounds.

So was the 30-40, which was adopted in 1894.

At the time, however, these European rounds seldom made it CONUS and when the Army "ran into" 7mm Mauser cartridges during the Spanish American War, for the survivors it caused a minor sensation at the time.

(To show how far back the disrespect towards the National Guard the Regular Army has, a Regular Army General was removed from command in the Philippians due to letters back home from the Territorial’s (National Guard). The Regular Army General had lots of Krags in reserve but would not issue them to the Territorials because the Regular Army does not consider the Reserves or National Guard as “real soldiers”, thus these guys were left using the single shot 45/70 Trapdoor against M1893 Mausers!.)

If you were to compare the 30-30 against the 30-40, the ballistics on the 30-40 are a bit better but it could not be fitted into compact legacy lever actions, the M1893’s or M1894’s, and the 30-30 was an improvement over black powder rounds of the era.

By the time you get to post WW1, the important writers of the period, Major Crossman and Townsend Whelen were comparing the 30-30 against their baby, the 30-06, and they were very disrespectful of the 30-30. Elmer Keith, a very influential writer, thought the 30-06 was too small, so you can imagine what he thought of the 30-30.

It is funny that over a century later the 30-30 is right within the power range of military intermediate assault cartridges.

Try buying 30-40 brass. It is seasonal, but 30-30, loaded ammunition is over the counter at Walmart.

Still, more than any other reason, it has survived because of the excellent and affordable lever actions it has been chambered in. And the fact that if the cartridge is used within the limitations of its trajectory it will get the job done.
 
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There is one reason I really like the .30-30 cartridge, with it’s long neck, it is a near perfect cast boolit round. Great accuracy can be had with cast boolit velocities near factory jacketed ammo without loss of accuracy.
 
Worse than a leveraction thanks to the savages single locking lug and ramen noodle like rigidity.

Go beyond factory pressures and accuracy becomes nonexistent and case life is very brief.

I should know I've had two 30-30 sav340's and one rem 788

Have a Savge 340 in .30-30. Don't go beyond the hottest loads in loading manuals, but do load them close to the hottest...also use 150 Gr. Hornady Interlock spire point bullets in it. It groups well enough for hunting...maybe 2 - 2.5 Inches. I'd trust it for another 75-100 yards from a blunt nose bullet. My dad has killed deer at 190 yards with it.
 
It seems some people have different definitions of the word "obsolete." I tend to think that if something still has a use, even though out performed, it doesn't mean it's obsolete. I haven't looked up the dictionary though so perhaps I'm off.
Here I looked it up for ya............
ob·so·lete/ˌäbsəˈlēt/
Adjective:
No longer produced or used; out of date.

I shoot my hot rods out of my Handi-rifle, I don`t think I am going to over-pressure it, here is some of my 125gr. PSP`s, they chrono. at just over 2800 fps
 
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Anybody who believes the .30-30 is obsolete need only go to Wal Mart and count the boxes of .30-30 on the shelves -- and compare that to the number of boxes of the latest Super-Extra-Short Bob-Tailed Magnum.
 
Was looking for some .32 ACP at Wallyworld yesterday. Most was .30-30, closely followed by .30-06. Smaller amounts of .243, .308 & .270 followed. Tiny amounts of common long magnums.

Reminds me, I need crank up the press & make up some 170's to get some practice in before fall.
 
Thanks 303tom, for some reason I missed the post that you quoted the definition.
 
If you are hunting whitetail in the woods a 30-30 is all you need. Most of your shots will be 50 to 100 yards. Anything further you bullet is going to lodge in a tree. If you get into mule deer country some of your shots may be 300 yards so leave the 30-30 at home and grab the 30-06. These two rounds have stood the test of time and any place that sells ammo will have them.
 
I have never seen a grown man hunting with a 30-30. I have seen children and women using them.

I'm comfortable enough with my Manhood to tell you this is absolutely wrong. I use one because A. it works, B. the rifles (usually a lever action) are light and short enough to use in heavy cover, and C. I will never see a shot out of range for the gun in the area that I hunt.
So please don't attempt to refer to me as a "Woman" or a "Child" because I use one. This is the High Road after all insulting people is not taking the High Road.
 
I have never seen a grown man hunting with a 30-30. I have seen children and women using them

Come on down to Alabama this November and you can see this grown man using one. I will actually call the 336 a "joy to shoot". Light recoil and light weight make it one of my preferred deer rifles and I guarantee I will kill one for the wall with it this year.

PS I already have him patterned on the trail cam and saw him several times last year as a 3 year old. He is in an area where my longest shot is about 90 yards. If he makes it till November I will hang him.
 
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