Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by george burns, Dec 9, 2016.
I second that. Glad you are still with us.
Not the latest/greatest bullet technology, which means I actually practice with them instead of hoarding them like gold nuggets. If they expand bonus points, but I'm assuming they won't so my focus is on shot placement and effective penetration. 147 works well out of short barrels, gives good penetration, and is kind to both the gun and the shooter. I've never shot anything that had trouble feeding them.
You should check out http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/ for more information than you can process.
Remember the shooting a while back where a disgruntled lawyer (I think) went on a rampage through the office and killed maybe 7-8 people with Black Talons? One of the reasons they got such bad press and eventually discontinued (banned) was this high profile shooting. Autopsy showed that only ONE bullet would have been more effective than ball! It nicked an artery on the way through where a ball round likely wouldn't have, but every other round fired went through things needed for life so the choice of ammo was not material in the shooting. The guy was deliberate with his aim which is what killed the people...not the magic bullets.
147gr HST muzzle velocity is 1000 fps by design. When fired from my Glock 26 and Glock 43 the loss in muzzle velocity due to their shorter barrel lengths is less than 20 fps. As a result the effect of the very slight decrease from design velocity on terminal performance is negligible. Terminal performance from all three pistols is virtually the same.
My carry load used to be Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot but felt recoil is a bit snappy in my Glock 43. Whereas the 147gr HST has a substantially softer felt recoil, which keeps the gun from shifting in my grip and aids in recoil management. The result is I recover from recoil more quickly and consistently, which increases my performance.
Finally the hollow cavity of 147gr bullets is deeper than JHP bullets of lighter weight. This deeper cavity facilitates more reliable and consistent expansion performance, than lighter weight JHPs, because material that may be cut out by the rim of the hollow cavity as the bullet passes through (like a cookie cutter) is pushed to the bottom of the cavity which clears the mouth of the hollowpoint allowing fluid to enter and expand the bullet. Lighter weight JHPs are more susceptible to having their cavities clogged which may inhibit or prevent bullet expansion despite higher velocity resulting in erratic expansion performance.
"There is another issue being ignored - what rates well from a 4.25 inch barrel belt gun may be considered substandard from a 3" barrel and vice versa
Currently I shoot Hornady American Gunner, uses XP bullets and decent pricing across the board. It's run of the mill in most tests, which makes it better than a lot and arguably less good than some others which were shot in a gravel pit. It is reliable in all my guns, it's cheap enough I will shoot it more often, it's good enough to do the job."
Thank you Tirod for making these two points. I was beginning to feel like I am the only person on THR that uses 9mm’s with barrel lengths from 3” – 5”.
For my 3 – 4” 9mm’s I am using Hornady Critical Defense. I choose Critical Defense after watching the Ammo Quest tests on Shooting The Bull on youtube.
For my 5” Berettas I choose Hornady American Gunner 124 gr. +P XTP also. The Beretta is going to wring out the maximium performance from the cartridge and as you say it is affordable to shoot. I have got it on sale at Cabelas for as little as $12.99 / box
Both the HST and Ranger "T" Series do well out of 3" barrels and they do well out of 4" barrels. The tests by TNOUTDOORS9 out of Glock 19 has both rounds performing well.
I love that test and see they have added a bunch of new loads. In 9mm, they tested with a 3.5" barrel which is very realistic. Any 4" or up will do even better and 3" hopefully won't make a stellar 3.5" performer into a dud with only a 1/2" less bore.
357SIG 125Gold Dot
In 9mm I prefer the 147s as they shoot "softer" for me, and lose less velocity in shorter barrels. I make it a point only to carry ammo that does well in the FBI testing AND that I can buy the bullets for reloading. I then chronograph the factory stuff and build a reload to emulate it for practice and reliability testing.
Those are some very well-reported results, complete with photographs and charts. And the tests are done from a short barrel. I was going to suggest the same.
Previously, someone mentioned shot placement as the be all, end all. True to an extent. No matter how much you train or practice though, violence is dynamic and there is no guarantee of pinpoint accuracy. Defensive shooting is not sniping, target or IDPA. Adrenaline and fear tend to monkey up the works quite a bit. No different than hand to hand combat. Anyone who says they will do precisely this or that in a gunfight has no experience with true violence. Plans go out the window and you must react dynamically.
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