What is your preferred method and die to improve concentricity

[BJung]

Do you prefer the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die, Bushing Die, or Neck sizing die to assemble rounds with the least runout and best concentricity? I once owned a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die and the needle on my Sinclair gauge barely moved when testing for concentricity off the bullet ogive (I hope that's said correctly). But, I later tired resizing my case neck and then expanding it to .001" less than my bullet diameter with an RCBS expander and measuring the assembled round, the runout was worse. I used Imperial Die Wax too btw.

 

[AJC1]

Do you prefer the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die, Bushing Die, or Neck sizing die to assemble rounds with the least runout and best concentricity? I once owned a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die and the needle on my Sinclair gauge barely moved when testing for concentricity off the bullet ogive (I hope that's said correctly). But, I later tired resizing my case neck and then expanding it to .001" less than my bullet diameter with an RCBS expander and measuring the assembled round, the runout was worse. I used Imperial Die Wax too btw.

None of the listed options. I like a standard forester sizing die with expander ball removed. I use a mandrel to set final diameter but you can have them honed if you don't want a second step in the process. I use 21st century mandrels and die body.

 

[Skgreen]

Haven't tried many methods, but a Redding Type S Full Length Match die set w/ RockChucker Supreme combo is my current favorite. I use bushings + the expander. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049443

 

[BJung]

Haven't tried many methods, but a Redding Type S Full Length Match die set w/ RockChucker Supreme combo is my current favorite. I use bushings + the expander. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049443

Do you get any runout?

 

[BJung]

None of the listed options. I like a standard forester sizing die with expander ball removed. I use a mandrel to set final diameter but you can have them honed if you don't want a second step in the process. I use 21st century mandrels and die body.

Do you get any runout?

 

[Varminterror]

If anything produces less runout than neck reamed brass sized in a FL Redding Type S or Whidden bushing dies, I haven’t found it. To absolve the need for neck reaming, or turning, next best is the same bushing dies with a mandrel expander, using Lapua or Alpha brass. In either method, seating in Wilson Chamber type dies keeps things straight and true during seating, and naturally, using quality bullets and well-fitting seating steps is critical there as well.

Absolutely all methods will produce some degree of runout.

 

[AJC1]

Do you get any runout?

Not that I've found. I seat with a wilson chamber seater and an arbor press for match rounds.

I checked once less tha .002 never bothered again.

 

[BJung]

I've seen photos of the Wilson press. It looks like you can't go wrong with it. How does the busing die work? Do you have a standard die that screws into the press and you swap out bushings? If you use and expander, what do you use to reduce stretch or a distortion of the neck as the expander runs into and out of the brass neck? I tried Imperial Die wax. Would graphite be a better choice?

 

[Varminterror]

I've seen photos of the Wilson press. It looks like you can't go wrong with it. How does the busing die work? Do you have a standard die that screws into the press and you swap out bushings? If you use and expander, what do you use to reduce stretch or a distortion of the neck as the expander runs into and out of the brass neck? I tried Imperial Die wax. Would graphite be a better choice?

Wilson chamber type seating dies, not press. Sinclair arbor presses are fine, 21st century hydropress or K&M arbor press with Force Pack are even better.

Bushing dies: effectively a standard die with the neck bored out to be replaced by a bushing. Pick your diameter corresponding to your desired neck tension, hardness (springback), and brass neck thickness.

Expanding mandrel: Sinclair is fine, 21st century and Wilson are great also. Pick your diameter based on your bullet dia, brass hardness, and desired neck tension.

Mandrel/inside neck lube: I’ve dipped necks in mica powder or graphite powder in the past, which works fine, with the disadvantage that I tend to spill or splatter the powder at some point - multiple times per year. I prefer now to shoot Hornady One Shot Case Lube into my necks.

 

[ms6852]

I've never had the need to check for concentricity. I am not a competitor nor a competition shooter. I love my shooting to be as basic as possible.

 

[AJC1]

My mandrels are nitride coated and I don't lube. I tried the Redding graphite powder and it made no perceptible change. My group sizes didn't change either so that was the end of that.
Wilson makes both regular press and arbor press style dies. I don't have anything negative to say about any wilson product I've used. When getting to this level one would assume your using a single brand of brass. That's not to say that any one brand is needed, but you have well established a brand you prefer and understand that bushings are 20 ish dollars each. The chance you get the right one the first time is about zero. So expect to buy 3 to get the one you think is ideal and the one above and below. If testing and adjusting for neck tension is a pursuit you envision your bushings can get quite speedy. That's not to say that you can't spend the same kind of money on mandrels.
It is my position that bushings and mandrels are tools to the same end. I watch tons of videos from top shooters and they use both. If you shoot a lot of the came caliber they are equally versatile. 30br,300bo 308,30-06,300wm and you get the point.

 

[Theinkman]

Do you prefer the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die, Bushing Die, or Neck sizing die to assemble rounds with the least runout and best concentricity? I once owned a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die and the needle on my Sinclair gauge barely moved when testing for concentricity off the bullet ogive (I hope that's said correctly). But, I later tired resizing my case neck and then expanding it to .001" less than my bullet diameter with an RCBS expander and measuring the assembled round, the runout was worse. I used Imperial Die Wax too btw.

I use the Lee collet neck sizing die and Redding Type s bushing dies without a bushing to bump case shoulders back. Have found this combination to work quite well although I do not check concentricity.

 

[Bcwitt]

If you use standard rifle dies, deprime in a seperate operation so you can back the seating stem off & run it up higher. When you tighten the lock nut, the stem will be more rigid. Also requires less force when set correctly.

 

[Skgreen]

Do you get any runout?

Less than Hornady or RCBS on my LNL AP w/6.5 CM . Tried the Lee Collet method years ago on 223 and couldn't shoot the difference.

 

[Kaldor]

Do you prefer the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die, Bushing Die, or Neck sizing die to assemble rounds with the least runout and best concentricity? I once owned a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die and the needle on my Sinclair gauge barely moved when testing for concentricity off the bullet ogive (I hope that's said correctly). But, I later tired resizing my case neck and then expanding it to .001" less than my bullet diameter with an RCBS expander and measuring the assembled round, the runout was worse. I used Imperial Die Wax too btw.

I use a Hornady full length sizing die and a Sinclair mandrel. Press is a MEC so the shellholder does float. It has given good results on the target.

In full disclosure: I do not check concentricity. I figure I am not a good enough shooter to worry about even a round is a few thou out. I anneal, FL size, SSTL media tumble, mandrel, trim, load. I use quality brass, mostly Peterson, for the loads I care about. I know other that do use this type of setup, and it seems to give them good numbers.

 

[jmorris]

…and the needle on my Sinclair gauge barely moved when testing for concentricity off the bullet ogive…But, I later tired resizing my case neck and then expanding it to .001" less than my bullet diameter with an RCBS expander and measuring the assembled round, the runout was worse.

Sounds like you understand my method already. Test everything you can and write down what works. I prefer to start with the fired case before sizing, then check every step. If error is introduced somewhere along the way, I try and find out how to eliminate or avoid it. What works for some doesn’t for others, thus the testing part.

 

[Mk-211]

How do you take care of your loaded ammo?

I watched a friend load up some match rounds, after seating the bullet, he tossed them into a plastic bin!

I said, you went through all that trouble just to toss it into a plastic bin?! He was like

 

[BJung]

I use the Lee collet neck sizing die and Redding Type s bushing dies without a bushing to bump case shoulders back. Have found this combination to work quite well although I do not check concentricity.

Can't you use a FL Die and adjust it down enough to force the shoulder back. But then, it resizes the neck. And, I am guessing it will resize the whole case, No ( I hope )?

 

[BJung]

How do you take care of your loaded ammo?

I watched a friend load up some match rounds, after seating the bullet, he tossed them into a plastic bin!

I said, you went through all that trouble just to toss it into a plastic bin?! He was like [/QUOTE

For me testloads, I tape them together and write down all the information about that load. Then, I take the tape when finished firing and place it on the target and mark that with a bingo marker of a specific color. I also dot every hole I shot with a bingo marker. Another option I will use is retape the label to the brass and mark "that" plus a note on the target and the holes.

 

[JFrank]

One thing that has always concerned me was removing the expander ball and realizing how much the Forster non bushing die reduced the neck OD .. something in the neighborhood of .007 and even though I have mandrels to expand the ID it still in my opinion is a testament to how violent the sizing process is with that style of die.
I don’t care to work the brass that much, my Wilson&Harrrels FL bushing dies do not have an expander ball rather a decapping pin only, as for consentricity, chamber tolerances and do’s and don’t I’ll let ya’ll work that out and report back.

 

[AJC1]

One thing that has always concerned me was removing the expander ball and realizing how much the Forster non bushing die reduced the neck OD .. something in the neighborhood of .007 and even though I have mandrels to expand the ID it still in my opinion is a testament to how violent the sizing process is with that style of die.
I don’t care to work the brass that much, my Wilson&Harrrels FL bushing dies do not have an expander ball rather a decapping pin only, as for consentricity, chamber tolerances and do’s and don’t I’ll let ya’ll work that out and report back.

A honed die is cheaper and removes your primary concern. Now I would purposely buy a die with .003 neck tension so I could adjust it the way I want. Now the fear of over working brass can't really be pushed by the same group contending annealing every cycle is nessary.

 

[murray brook]

I have found that using a Redding body die to size the case and bump the shoulder and a Lee collet die to size the neck gives me very little case neck run-out. ( .0005-.001) when using good brass. Then a good seater die to finish the job. I use the Forster ultra seater. JME

 

[JFrank]

Not sure I follow how is it cheaper, I have the flexibility of tuning bullet hold by just dropping in a different size bushing at $20.00 they are certainly cheaper than dies. Perhaps I’m mis interpreting your post.

 

[AJC1]

Not sure I follow how is it cheaper, I have the flexibility of tuning bullet hold by just dropping in a different size bushing at $20.00 they are certainly cheaper than dies. Perhaps I’m mis interpreting your post.

I can do exactly the same thing with a mandrel.
As I stated I believe they are equal procedures, with equal results.

 

[mdi]

When I started reloading 308/7.62x51, I thought I needed a method to check concentricity. I bought the Hornady Concentricity tool/gauge. I used RCBS F/L dies set in my Co-Ac. Tested a bunch (both military and commercial brass, mostly Hornady 155 gr bullets) I got from .0005" to .0015". Thought I was mistaken, reread instrichions, changed to my Starrett dial indicator (from my old machinist/mechanic tools). Same measurements. Maybe one out of 50 would go to .002"+. I also tried my 30-06 reloads. Same parameters; military and civilian brass, Hornady and Nosler bullets, Lee F/L die set, average runout .0015". Hard to believe? Me too. But I believe it is the Forster Co-Ax that is responsible...