What level of accuracy qualifies a pistol shooter as competent?

[Dr. Sandman]

Obviously, safety and good judgment are at the top of the list. But, when it comes to accuracy, is there a consensus with regard to when a pistol shooter is considered competent? For hunting purposes, I consider reliably being able to hit an 8 inch dinner plate at 100 yards competent. Is there a standard when it comes to pistols? Thanks in advance.

 

[OilyPablo]

Head size target at 10-15 yards is just my unprofessional opinion.

 

[stoky]

Once upon a time, a Colonel devised a test he dubbed El Presidente. The shooter would began with his back to three (IPSC silhouette) targets at a distance of ten yards. At a start signal the shooter would turn, fire two shots at each target, reload and fire two more rounds at each target.
Ten seconds and A zones was par. Over twelve seconds was failure.
Subsequently the name was changed for political correctness, and the one eighty turn was abandoned for "safety".

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

I consider reliably being able to hit an 8 inch dinner plate at 100 yards competent

You set the bar pretty high, huh?

I consider that shooting to be very competent if you are talking
offhand, kneeling, or sitting with any iron sighted handgun.

The few handgun hunters I know would not be keen on 100 yd. shots though.
Too easy to end up just poking a hole.

Scoped bolt pistols or iron sights from the bench or prone, if the pistol
is a shooter, not quite as big a deal with practice.

JT

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I would say that a competent shooter should be able to put 10/10 rounds on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 25 yards no time limit.

That same shooter should be able to put 5 rounds on 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 10 yards in 3-4 seconds starting from holster.

That being said, I have few handguns that are competent (more than me!) at 240 yards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNxPvg8-yY

 

[Ed Ames]

You set the bar pretty high, huh?

I'm pretty sure he was thinking "hunting means rifle", at least subconsciously. I've seen people who do meet that standard with a handgun but not many.

As far as competence, my own standard has three parts:

1) Administrative competence, in other words can you handle a loaded gun safely, load and unload it, and in general possess a firearm without endangering bystanders. Main skills are putting a gun in a holster and leaving it there, but also muzzle awareness, finger discipline, etc..

2) Marksmanship, or hitting what you are aiming at. At short ranges the standard is at least putting holes in paper without putting holes where they don't belong, but I could argue that a decent "absolute minimum" test is that you should be able to block your view of all of the holes you make with one hand at arm's length. At short distances that means 5" or so, but as the range extends the blocked area grows so at 100 yards you can block a whole tree with one hand. A skilled marksman should be able to block all of their holes from view with one thumb, and an expert should be hitting within the width of their front sight post, assuming an accurate gun and unlimited time.

3) Sangfroid. This to me is the true measure of competence. A person who is normally very conscientious about muzzle direction and can hit a quarter at 100 paces but starts shaking and peering down the barrel when someone yells at them or they see a deer isn't competent no matter how accurate and safe they seem at the range.

 

[taliv]

there's not really "a" standard. there are many tests. el prez is a hard but good one. this month i've done it and the 10-10-10 and 10-5-5 drills. i think those are more "competitive" though.

i think more generally a 2-3 second mozambique and 10 rounds in the black on a B8 target at 10 yards in 1 minute would be 'competent'.

 

[walnut1704]

There's always the occasional flyer, but my benchmark is more than 90% in a 4" circle at 15 yards. I'm talking slow fire "target" shooting with an appropriate target grade gun and a long barrel.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The standards of competency should be commensurate with the shooting scenario.

Competition shooting has a much higher level of competency that just plinking around, for example.

 

[Plan2Live]

Define proficient.

For the purpose of obtaining a Concealed Weapon Permit in South Carolina, the State considers you proficient if you can put 35 out of 50 rounds inside the silhouette of a B27 target at distances ranging from 3 yards to 15 yards and do so without shooting yourself or anyone else.

While some here suggest you need to be able to shoot a small target at 25 yards (atypical self defense distance) to be proficient I think you need to be able to clear your holster, acquire the target and put at least one round on target at 5 yards in under two seconds to be proficient. You might also need to be able to draw and hit a body sized target at the point of rotation in the draw stroke to be proficient. So it all depends on the type of shooting you are engaging in that defines proficient.

 

[taliv]

competent to me just means a person is not a beginner, has a reasonable amount of experience and practice, and exhibits no major flaws in technique. but the question posed was how to measure or validate that from perspective of performance, with the implicating being, "what should i be able to do, beyond being safe, if i want to perform at a socially acceptable level?"

 

[25-5]

Most anybody can hit the targets as described. A basic requirement. Competency comes from the confidence achieved by regular trips to the range for practice. That's a forever thing.

 

[Sunray]

"...able to hit an 8 inch dinner plate at 100 yards competent..." Is a lot more than competent. It's bordering on miraculous. The black on an NRA 50 yard, slow fire, B6 target is 8". The whole sheet is 21" x 24". If you can hit that every time at 100 you're doing well. However, 100 yards is way too far most handgun shooters.

 

[jmace57]

Yeah - I was thinking with my scoped 22 rifle...

If I can hit a dinner plate at 25 yards, I am happy..in about 4 inches at 15 yards.

 

[Dr. Sandman]

JT-
That 8 inch dinner plate at 100 yards is with a rifle or slug shotgun, not a pistol. That would be some excellent marksmanship with a pistol!
Dr. Sandman

 

[ATLDave]

Once upon a time, a Colonel devised a test he dubbed El Presidente. The shooter would began with his back to three (IPSC silhouette) targets at a distance of ten yards. At a start signal the shooter would turn, fire two shots at each target, reload and fire two more rounds at each target.
Ten seconds and A zones was par. Over twelve seconds was failure.
Subsequently the name was changed for political correctness, and the one eighty turn was abandoned for "safety".

??? That is still routinely shot as a stage in USPSA. That sport has LOTS of starts facing uprange.... you just have to be past the 180° before the gun comes out of the holster.

And we still call it "El Presidente."

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm pretty sure he was thinking "hunting means rifle", at least subconsciously. I've seen people who do meet that standard with a handgun but not many.

Me too, otherwise there are a lot of incompetent handgun hunters out there. While I can do it with my .460 consistently, with the .44s, .45s and .357s not so much.....

 

[9mmepiphany]

But, when it comes to accuracy, is there a consensus with regard to when a pistol shooter is considered competent?

Since there isn't a speed component, I'd consider a shooter competent if they can keep their shots (5) on half a 3"x5" (so around 2") card at 5-7 yards and inside 6" (flat surface of 8" paper plate) at 25 yards...this is just standing, shooting two handed.

Once upon a time, a Colonel devised a test he dubbed El Presidente.

Ten seconds and A zones was par. Over twelve seconds was failure.

We've come a long way since then.

Open guns now do it in under 3 seconds and Production guns at right about 5 seconds

and the one eighty turn was abandoned for "safety"

I'm not sure who's abandoned it. We still do the turn in USPSA and IDPA and they still teach it in classes.

I will grant that Failure Drill has replaced Mozambique Drill...perhaps because not that many people know where the Republic of Mozambique is anymore

 

[huntsman]

To get my pistol certificate(CCW license) I had to put five rounds each into 3 paper plates at 7 yards with a reload, this wasn't pass or fail but a competency test in gun handling. I don't know if it was an accurate test but what it did was separate the class and allow the instructors to spend time with those who needed it.

 

[taliv]

We've come a long way since then.

Open guns now do it in under 3 seconds and Production guns at right about 5 seconds

do you consider a 5 second el prez "competent"? or more like "match winning" or at least "top 10%"?
I think a 10-12 second el Prez is still "competent"

my guess is it takes most people thousands of rounds of practice to get under 8-9 seconds

 

[9mmepiphany]

Oh no, I consider it well above competent.

But when the drill was first introduced the 10 second par was that same measure of skill. I remember reading, in one of the Col's ramblings, that anyone who could do it, 3 times, on demand, would win a nice badge for the grill of their Merc.

It is the same as shooting a perfect score in the Bianchi Cup used to win a large prize...now the winner is decided by "X-ring" counts

 

[Deaf Smith]

What level of accuracy qualifies a pistol shooter as competent?

Competent at what? Hunting? Hunting what? Defense? What? What range? What size of target? Moving? Charging? What?

Deaf

 

[LoneGoose]

Competency equals familiarity, good judgment in diverse situations, safety, and control. Which equals training and practice. But we all know that. If we were to try to devise a "go/no go" test for competency, then we would be debating criteria for a long time. Hunting, bull's eye, rapid fire, etc. would all muddy the water. Kind of like what we have here.

 

[kitsapshooter]

Stoky - you are wrong, El Presidenta is the most popular classifier in USPSA today. There is also a second version

 

[taliv]

Competent at what? Hunting? Hunting what? Defense? What? What range? What size of target? Moving? Charging? What?

competent at using a pistol

hunting and defense etc are much broader skills, only a tiny fraction of which involves a firearm.