What rifles do the Israeli Army and commando units use?

[Ignition Override]

The Military Channel featured Israeli commandos tonight, but "local forces" who are always hostile to this channel overran and confiscated the remote control.

Female forces require no special tactics or air superiority to cut off our supply lines.

 

[Kurt_D]

What don't they use?

I've seen pics of them with ARs, AKs, HKs, FALs, along with their UZI and Galils.

 

[Kino74]

Dont forget their bullpup. Too bad there is not a civvie version for us.

 

[dodging230grainers]

Infantry: M16/M4. Tavor now being issued to Givati and some Golani brigades.

Support role (tankers, jobniks, engineers, etc): Uzi (rare nowadays), Galil, Colt Commando

Optics they use on some AR's: Meprolight, MARS, ACOG.

Israelis do NOT carry AKs, HKs, FALs, or anything of that sort. that is a myth. To my knowledge, special forces units use roughly the same gear, the difference is in the training.

Feel free to ask any other questions about what Israelis carry or how they carry it- I've spent a bit of time in Israel, and have some Israeli family.

 

[Hoppy590]

basic issue rifle is the M16. commando forces use what ever they heck they want.

 

[paintballdude902]

i know they are still issueing some m1 carbines to people

but i believe the two guns most common are the galil and m16 and now theya re starting to use the tavor

 

[dodging230grainers]

as I said- galil only goes to reserve units or minor support roles.


M1 carbines are for private security guards protecting tourists- the IDF doesn't want them.

 

[Paladin_Hammer]

Israeli's on standard issued the FN FAL for years (mid-50's to the late 70's). Then they switch (ultimately) to the M16 platform (which underwent a lot of criticism, but it won over most of the Armed Services there). The Gali and other rifles of course have been in and out of main-line service. But the rifle their switching to now is the Tavor. Given the circumstances they've been in, urban and desert warfare, they needed both a close-range carbine and a main-line battle rifle. The only way to get that is with a bullpup. The Tavor is amazingly accurate according to the Israeli's. Apparently they worked around the common problem of reliability usually associated with Bullpups (case in point, L85, FAMAS early models).

They use anything that more than one nation is willing to call the "best". When your surrounded by hostile nations (and they never officially have ended their war with Syria), they want the best.

 

[dodging230grainers]

To expand on what Paladin said, the Israelis up until the late 70s used the FAL and the Uzi exclusively as their combat firearms. Then the FAL was dropped and the Uzi reduced to incorporate new American made M-16s an M-4s.

Now it seems the IDF is phasing out the ARs for the Tavor- though 90% of the IDF still uses the AR right now.

 

[UnTainted]

I wonder if they have any interest in the 6.8 spc or if they've used them...

 

[dodging230grainers]

Nah, no 6.8. Just 5.56mm for assault rifles and 7.62mm NATO for sniper rifles. They also have .50 BMG rifles, which they oddly call ".05" caliber in hebrew =D

 

[WardenWolf]

Apparently they worked around the common problem of reliability usually associated with Bullpups

The primary and usually non-fixable problem with bullpups is they are utterly unusable by left-handed soldiers. Whereas with a normal rifle the cartridge would simply eject in front of their body, with a bullpup it would eject directly into their face. Now, granted, there WAS one French bullup design that could be made to eject on either side with the flip of a switch, but bullpups are normally bad for the decent percentage of lefties in the armed forces.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Israeli SOF guys went in very big for SBR M4s/CAR-15s, apparently being one of the first organizations to learn the hard way that if you lop too much of the barrel off an AR you get feeding problems.

 

[WardenWolf]

Everything you do to an AR can cause feeding problems, including just using it normally. I'm surprised they haven't just put a bullpup kit on their Galils.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Galil doesn't seem to have been really well received for the most part in the IDF.

Having been trained on the Galil as a fighting gun, and trained other to use it, I can kind of understand why . . .

 

[jonnyc]

OK, I am an IDF vet, and there's lots to comment on here.

First, to equate tankers and engineers with jobniks is actually an insult in Israel. Uzis have not been issue weapons for Shirion (tanks) or Handasah (engineers) since maybe the late 1970s. Engineers in IDF service, which is what I did, are Infantry first (Kravi!), with an engineering specialty. We learned about the Uzi in the 1980s, but were only issued Galils and M16s.

Some SF units, S-13 "Seals" I know for sure, were issued AKs, at least to the late 1980s.

Galils are only issued now to reserve units, mainly to those that used them back during their regular service.

M-1 Carbines were never an IDF issue weapon. They were only (and remain) used by some Civil Guard and kibbutz members. I ran a kibbutz armory and had 40 of them. They were used for night guards and field trips.

Galils were actually well-received in IDF service, and well-used. Very solid and reliable, and easy to clean and maintain. In the South, I had lots of sand-jams with M16s, and even a MAG58, but never a Galil. They were however not well-carried! They are kind of heavy and clunky, and painful to run with when slung.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Having been trained on the Galil as a fighting gun, and trained other to use it, I can kind of understand why . .

Why is that? The heavyness mentioned by another person?

 

[4Freedom]

I've seen some recent pictures and training videos that a majority of Israelies are switching to the Tavor rifle. It is much lighter than the M-16s as well as many more times accurate. Looks like a nice gun to have, too bad we cannot find them here.

 

[Grayrider]

I met a former IDF paratrooper locally when I bought my Golani. He happened to be in the shop when I picked it up. He used a Galil during the war against the PLO in Lebanon, and loved it. According to him it just plain worked, and the weight was worth dealing with to get the performance. He had nothing positive to say about the M16, but the ones floating around over there at the time may have been well used.

John

 

[jonnyc]

I haven't really looked closely at the M16 models currently in IDF service, but in the mid to late '80s we got M16A1s. We also never heard of dry lube. The combination was not good in the Negev-Gaza area where I did my basic.
As I posted above, I agree 100% with the Tzanchan (Para) you met.

 

[carbine85]

Just a little off topic, but didn't the Israeli army build the Galil with a heavier longer barrel to improve on the AK's poor accuracy? I was also under the impression that they refined the whole rifle and made it a little too expensive to build.
They sure do feel like a better rifle when you hold one.

 

[jonnyc]

Possibly, but eventually most of the Galils made and issued were the short-barreled Glilon. Perhaps it was decided that long-range accuracy was less important that convenience and ease of use in APCs, etc.

 

[woodybrighton]

being left handed I used the SA80 with no problems right handed got hits out to 600m on the range with it.
SA80a2 is just much better built.
officer had a pair of r5s basically south African copies of the galil brought home in hold luggage so much for airport secuirty
very well put together soldier proof rifle it goes bang and you can batter someone to death with it and it will still go bang
Israelis don't apparently make bayonets for it.
marx said a bayonet has a worker at both ends
sgt cummings said "not at your end you ****** shirker give me 50"
have a mate lost his left leg clearing Israeli cluster munitions in the lebannon any chance of sending one of your cute female soldiers as compenstation?

 

[wcwhitey]

Question about the M16's they use, specifically the A-1 sighted carbines. I see them quite a bit in photo's and some seem to have the handguard wrapped in OD fabric of some sort. Nice little carbine, anyone know specifically what they are?

 

[HorseSoldier]

Why is that? The heavyness mentioned by another person?

Galil SARs are pretty nicely done examples of the AK, but you've still got the AK manual of arms to deal with. The charging handle geometry is much improved, but the left side safety doesn't really bring much to the table -- it's somewhat quicker, but you still have to break your grip to run it.

We also had lots of problems with over-enthusiastic and under-skilled guys in training doing mag changes and not quite seating the magazine correctly and then cranking down on it, bending the front locking tab on the mag backwards and dead lining the magazine in one smooth motion.

Accuracy was good -- entirely acceptable for a combat gun, anyway. The SARs I used did have the slappiest triggers I've ever seen on any kind of AK-type rifle, though -- on full auto your trigger finger would be beat to death after a magazine or two of short bursts. I don't know if this is something specific for the shorter barreled ones, as we didn't have any longer barreled models in our arms room, but it was remarkably bad.

I'd take a Galil over a standard AK, but would take an M4 over either. Going back to the previous statement about bullpup kitting the Galil, I don't think this would produce a particularly fightable gun, whereas the Tavor seems like a pretty good bullpup take on one.