What should IAD be for schools if attacked by terrorist or such?

[Glamdring]

I was going to post this a couple of days ago after hearing a Public Radio interview in connection to the attack on the Russian school.

Sounds like SOP here in the US is still lock down. I think evacuating the school would make more sense, note it isn't a GREAT plan just better IMHO than lock down if facing a serious attack.

I feel like the are still using incorrect thinking like pre 9/11 thinking for dealing with hi jackers (ie just do what they tell you, don't resist, and get plane on the ground).

 

[G21dude]

There's a reason not to evacuate...

I just did a quick search and failed to come up with the particulars, but I recall an incident where a young criminal armed with a rifle managed to set off the fire alarm and pick people off from outside as they exited the building...

 

[SunBear]

In the Russian situation it would have been better if everyone had run despite the orders of the murdering POSs. Many would have been killed but certainly less than the 300+ in the final scenario where the maggots had time to wire the building and hostages. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Billy Sparks]

G21Dude you are thinking of one of the school shootings here in the US (Jonesboro, Ark I think). The 2 shooters (both kids) pulled the fire alarm and then started shooting as the kids evacuated.

 

[G21dude]

Billy, that's exactly it

Thanks, I couldn't remember where that was. Anyway, just goes to show that evacuation isn't always the best immediate reaction.

I agree with SunBear -- with hindsight, it may have been better to just **** when the SHTF, considering how many wound up dying. Also considering what happened the last time the Chechen crazies struck and the Russkies responded with nerve gas.

I have a son in preschool and I've thought about this a fair amount since it came out, and I honestly think the Russians did the right thing -- there's no reason to believe these nuts woldn't have killed everyone anyway, regardless of whether or not their "demands" were met.

Look at the French situation with the journalists now -- they (the French Gov't) thought they were somehow "safe" because of their stance on Iraq -- this just goes to show that crazies are crazies, no matter where you find them.

Regardless of what they'd like to think, we're not dealing with Muslims, or separatists, we're dealing with crazy bastards who kill children, period. If they want to be taken as a serious "movement" they need to target Government or military targets only. It's just that they all know that won't work, so they descend into the depths of lunacy by attacking civilians, or worse yet, children.

That's what Special Ops guys are for. God Bless 'em all, and their families, too.

 

[WT]

All things considered, I'd get out of the building.

A lot of people in the Twin Towers stayed inside after being told it was safe. They died in the collapse.

I think the probability of being hit by a sniper located outside a building is far less than the dangers posed by staying inside a building with armed terrorists.

I'd get out and move far away from the incident scene.

 

[Series 70]

I think by now we all are of the opinion that, if your locale is taken over by terrorists, you should assume they plan to kill everyone. They may wait a bit for enough media to gather. They may prolong things by negotiating, maybe raise hopes by releasing a few hostages.

But in the end, their plan is to kill everyone while cameras roll.

Given all this, how should hostages respond? I think they should rush the scumbags. So what if they have firearms, bombs, whatever - they're gonna kill you anyway! A few will be killed while overwhelming the bad guys, but talk about sending a message...

 

[AirPower]

I'd rush the scumbags too, but............most of those in Russian were just kids.

 

[sendec]

I get real uncomfortable with topics like this on an open, public forum. Post Columbine many agencies drew up policies and protocols, but I am not certain that posting them in a public venue would be prudent.

Suffice it to say there are pros and cons to staying in the building and leaving the building. One of the major problems that occurs during a mass exit is trying to sort out the good guys from the bad. At Columbine there were complaints when students were seen being directed outside with their hands up and being cuffed. The public has to understand that LE has to treat everyone as a potential BG until they are positively identified.

The Russians clearly have "unique" ROEs.

 

[mountainclmbr]

Well, I know what I would do. No way I am letting a suspected terrorist round me up. I would be running and fighting if necessary. I avoid places where I can't CCW.

 

[gundam007]

I have always considered what would happen in any public place if I were to be taken hostage. I decided (as well as a few of my friends) that we would find a good, out of the way, place to get ready, organize some people who also managed to avoid capture, improvise weapons, and rush the opposition.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

let teachers carry guns. if qualified. my one teacher was a marine in vietnam and an ardent supporter of the 2nd amendment. he would have been perfect. he always had a gun in his car though, but it would be out of reach

 

[griz]

One of the major problems that occurs during a mass exit is trying to sort out the good guys from the bad.

That's not a problem for me. I'll take my chances sitting in a black and white instead of sitting beside someone who is trying to think of the most public way of killing me. It always seemed to me that the students at Columbine should have hit the street as soon as they heard gunfire instead of staying in the classroom, but without being there it's hard to really know what went wrong.

The two kids from Arkansas do not change the equation. They pulled the fire alarm. You MUST get the kids out when the alarm goes off.

 

[Billy Sparks]

The problems with terroist events is that the terroists modify there way of doing things to suit the need. Therefore there are no hard and fast rules because the next event will be different than this one. It is easy to sit in front of a computer monitor and say I would do this or they should do that. Little bit different when it is right in front of you.

 

[cstuard]

There are many variables in each situation but Columbine made me sick.They "secured the area" while kids were getting shot. I really hate to say it but it sounds kind of chickens--t to me. I thought we had cops and swat teams to do what was needed no matter the personal danger, not to secure the area. And wouldn't it have been better in the Russion school to get a swat team in there ASAP too? Seems all the sitting around outside just gave them more time to rig the bombs. I don't mean to denigrate any police or swat teams as individuals. I just think the people in charge need to re-think their plans.

 

[sendec]

The people in charge have rethought their plans.

 

[shooter1]

NO surriender, NO concession. It goes for me or mine. Take um out!!!!
siemper phi---------------