What should one have done at the Baltimore assault

[Wapato]

It managed to make national news, but in case you haven't heard about the recent incident:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/14/justice/maryland-beating/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

Now, in all the reports I've seen the news crew ends up making some comments about how they're shocked the onlookers didn't do anything, and I thought the same thing.

Until I had a moment of introspection.

It occured to me that the most one is really legally allowed to do in a situation like that is to call the police and film from a distance.

Telling those assaulting the man to stop would not only would be dangerous to myself but could also be considered a provocation that will nullify claims of self defense should they choose to attack.

Anything more than a verbal response rapidly increases the chance of landing yourself in court. Brandishing certainly would I think.

So, presuming somebody called the cops, maybe the people filming this event did exactly the right thing as our society is structured. And instead of getting a bad rap they should be given some praise for getting some solid evidence and doing as much as they can in our legal structure for anything less than an imminent murder or maybe a rape.

 

[Carl Levitian]

Being that it was a classic case of not only not being situationally aware of his surroundings, he was dead drunk on the street, hardly able to walk, in a strange city, I just can't feel sorry for him. Stupid is as stupid does. The people who were filming it, were mostly part of the mob. I know Baltimore well, and it's NOT a town to go roaming around stumbling drunk in.

Any practice of situational awareness and moderation in drinking, would have kept him from becoming a victim. To the people on that street, he was a drunken fool that they had some fun with. The next day he couldn't even remember what happened.

There's a great lesson for you there!

Carl.

 

[Wapato]

Well, I'm more asking in regards to onlookers not the drunk.

And I think the legal implications for onlookers would be the same for a drunk very much in the wrong place at a bad time as it would for a girl just walking around campus.

 

[Carl Levitian]

For the onlookers, there was nothing to be done.

The victim was not being shot, knifed, nor stomped. He was being played with by the crowd. Aside from the roundhouse punch he walked right into, he woke up the next day not even remembering what happened. When you see something like this, you just keep your distance and call 911. Thats it. Why endanger yourself for some wandering drunk? Even if I was armed, what I carry is for the protection of me and mine. I'm not going to put my butt on the line for some all grown up man who should know how to behave in a strange city.

You'll have to excuse me, but this is a common event in the area. Living in the area, one gets used to stories of very drunk young men suffering the penalties of the behavior. It's just this one event that got video's and blown up by the media for ratings. In fact, it's almost a neighborhood sport in some areas of Baltimore. It's like "Hey look, another drunk guy! Lets have some fun."

If your going out drinking to excess, leave the Tag watch home, and call a cab at the club.

Carl.

 

[Manco]

deleted (never mind)

 

[ActionJax]

Can't see why a sensible person would even go into a neighborhood like that any time, especially not to get drunk and wander around at 2:00 am.......

I would say that I'd film from a distance, but really, if I found myself on a street like that at 2:00 am, I'd get out of there as fast as possible.

 

[Carl Levitian]

That's the whole point, ActionJax. This was not a sensible person, nor even a half bright one. It's almost like he went out of his way to get screwed up. He had no sense at all, and he got jacked. That's not just life in the big city, but anywhere on earth.

I've lived my entire life in this Maryland area between D.C. ad Baltimore. We've walked around both cities by day and night, and never a problem. But it's common for some young guy from out of town to get into trouble. They come from God knows where, and don't seem to have the sense they were born with, and get nailed. When I was a teenage, it was cool to go down to DC. or over to Baltimore to visit "The block." Strip joints, nude bars, brothels. Yet none of us got owned like that guy on the video because we grew up in an urban area and knew the ground rules. I've seen others get it, but they were like this guy, some drunk blundering down the sidewalk just waiting for some lowlife to rob them.

If your gonna visit Rome, know the rules.

Carl.

 

[barstoolguru]

the only white guy out there what do you expect; he got street rolled. the cops say they got someone and are looking for more... yea right

 

[armoredman]

As for onlookers becoming involved landing in court, it very much depends on the laws on aiding a third person. I do not know the laws for that area.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Don't get involved. The worst thing you can do is to "take the law into your own hands" because this defies the police monopoly on the use of violence. They will likely come down harder on you than on the criminal because when you use force you are stepping on their turf. The crowd did exactly what they have been conditioned to do, NOTHING.

 

[JustinJ]

I at least would have announced that i am calling the police from some distance to prevent further attack against the victim. There would be reason not to believe they could begin beating the man further on the ground. In regards to the legality of physical intervention i believe in most states one would be justified as the victim was assaulted and being mugged. Acting in such a case is not "taking the law into your own hands". Protecting a person being attacked is not vigiliantism just as it isn't to protect one's own self. Hunting down the attackers after the event to extract justice is.

Yeah, the guy made stupid choices but in no way deserved what happend to him. Personally, i don't like the idea of living in a society where animals like his attackers can assault people for no reason and nobody tries to intervene.

 

[daveinohio]

I couldn't have sat back and watched this happen. For those that could would your reaction have been the same if it was a pretty blond coed?

 

[Cosmoline]

The theft really isn't justification for direct intervention Neither are the minor assaults. Call 911.

It's tempting of course to challenge these bozos, but that sort of thing can get you killed.

 

[Pilot]

What can an unarmed man do with a mob who some of which are most likely illegally armed. Who can carry in Baltimore or MD for that matter. I don't know anyone that legally can. My state's permit isn't legal there, and it is almost impossible to get one as a resident.

Not being snarky, but what could you use to be an equalizer, and get the guy (and you) out of the situation? Calling 911 is obvious, but what else?

 

[jawman]

I would've at least expected people to at least yell for help and yell at the attackers to stop.

 

[Averageman]

He failed on so many levels, he should call it one of life's little lessons.
Lucky he is still alive.
Stupid Places with Stupid people, doing stupid things.

 

[Onward Allusion]

The rule of the 3S's come to mind...

I would have definitely called 911. It didn't appear he was being stomped on after getting punched down. Would I have gotten involved any further? It depends. Would I have pulled a gun? Nope. Pepper spray a possibility.

But then again, it would be very unlikely of me to be downtown in any larger city after 10pm. If I were, I can guarantee that I would be armed with knife, OC, & gun AND I wouldn't be drunk or even have a single drink in me.

 

[Onward Allusion]

jawman
I would've at least expected people to at least yell for help and yell at the attackers to stop.

I had learned long ago that one can't depend on the kindness of strangers for anything. Heh, one can't depend on "friends" at times much less strangers. Something about crowds that lets crap like this happen. It's the - hey, I don't wanna get involved, besides - someone else will help, mentality.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Ever see that movie Clockwork Orange? The authorities expect you to react to violence the way the charecter Alex did after aversion therapy. The cops are the 'alpha males' and expect you to be the sheep and act accordingly.

 

[conw]

Can't see why a sensible person would even go into a neighborhood like that any time, especially not to get drunk and wander around at 2:00 am.......

I would say that I'd film from a distance, but really, if I found myself on a street like that at 2:00 am, I'd get out of there as fast as possible.

It is a main downtown area. Not known for being bad. The presence of people of a certain race doesn't make it so either. You can say don't go out at 2 am but for many people that isn't meaningful advice.

As a friend on another board put it...the main lesson is don't go out wandering around alone and intoxicated. The other thing is they could have killed or maimed him if they wanted. The fact he woke up in a hotel room not a hospital, or at all for that matter, indicates that the intent was not serious injury to the victim.

 

[Wapato]

That's weird, the subscribe e-mail I got had a handfull of posts that don't seem to be in this thread.

Mod thing maybe?

Anyway to be clear I'm asking about the social/legal implications of a general scenario where you're witnessing someone being assaulted, demographics are off topic.

The open question I have at this point in time is if there are legal thresholds where you wouldn't get in trouble for intervening, and if there are any thresholds beyond which you yourself would get in trouble for just calling the cops and filming the incident.

 

[Kleanbore]

You cannot get in trouble for calling the cops.

In most states you would be legally justified in using force, and depending upon the circumstances, deadly force, if immediately necessary to defend a third person, if that person would be legally justified in using the same level of force himself.

To do so, however, is fraught with risk, physical and legal.

Does that answer the question?

 

[mcdonl]

the only white guy out there what do you expect; he got street rolled. the cops say they got someone and are looking for more... yea right

Thats crap... if that same idiot showed up at a bon fire or pit party where I live unknown to the residents and was that drunk he would have ran into some trouble here too and it doest get whiter than Maine.

He openned himself to trouble when he stopped moving. He let himself get distracted by a bouncing booty and was taken for what he had on him... an overpriced watch.

 

[tepin]

Best advise I can give is: be off the street and home by 10PM and you'll greatly reduce the chance of being a victim or a witness.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I have chewed over this thread for a little while before jumping in.

Item One: The "blame the victim" attitude is DISGUSTING.

While I am not unaware of the realities of life I have to say that if we, as responsible citizens, do not continuously and unrelentingly work towards a world where a guy could walk drunk down a street with $100 bills hanging out of his wallet and arrive home unmolested then we are shirking our responsibilities as both individuals and citizens. Condoning criminal action, be it rape or a mugging, because the victim "was an idiot" shows an appalling lack of moral judgement. NOBODY "deserves" to have a physical crime committed upon their person just for a lapse in judgement or situational awareness.

Item Two: Just as a simple, tactical, assessment; much like any sort of rescue operation the rescuer should try to avoid personal harm if possible. If you don't/can't take care of yourself then you sure can't assist anyone else.