What Small Arms are Sub Crews Issued

[GoWolfpack]

Some people don't care much for the fast boat in and out and in and out. Also whenever the boomers go somewhere they usually stay there for a while. You can actually buy a house (in Kings Bay, probably) and park your family there for more than three years.

But if you choose a fast boat, you might get to go to Pearl Harbor. And, like the Chief said, fast boats actually stop at interesting ports in other countries.


I will say, a modern ballistic missile submarine is like a submersible ocean liner. I can't turn around comfortably on a fast attack. Always bumping into something or someone.

 

[HKGuns]

Excuse me, but everyone knows Boomers aren't really submarines! One crew, one mission, there now I feel better about this thread.

 

[artpotts]

I spent 6 years in the Navy from the end of Vietnam until '81. I carried an old plugged barrel M14 in boot camp and never fired a round. On the boat(fast attack) I "qualified" on the 1911 by hitting the ocean 5 shots out of 5 while standing in the sail in the middle of the Pacific. Those were the only official shots I fired in those 6 years. I did shoot some at the range with friends while on leave.
Now I'm just another old nuke keeping the lights on but I do get to shoot a little more.

 

[SSN Vet]

I still don't understand why anyone would want to go on a fast attack tin can when they can have the luxury of a boomer, lots more room to stretch out.

I personally found the strategic deterrent patrol to be extremely monotonous...

No disrespect to Boomer crews... (I have a patrol pin myself), but it's kind of like comparing apples and oranges....

Fast boats do "real" submarine missions...

i.e. trailing enemy subs, covertly inserting seals, sneaking into the middle of our adversaries naval exercises and recording every thing they can do (sonar, radar and weapons telemetry info. being examples), poking through the ice and planting listening devices, eye-spy work inside another nations territorial waters.

The guy I relieved on my first SSN had what I considered to be a dream tour.... in the previous year alone, he was at sea for 300 days, did a spec op up north, ASW exercises with the Brits, an ice ex, and an abbreviated med run. I checked on the boat right after they got back, and after a brief holiday leave period, we were off shooting torpedoes on the range, evaluating some new sonar equipment on the accousting range and did covert insertion training with SEAL Team 2, then Army rangers, and then USMC Recon types.

Boomers are cushy rides at sea, and offer many more nights in the sack with your wife, and fewer missed birthday parties.... but that's not what all bubble heads are looking for.

 

[HKGuns]

What boat were you on SSN?

 

[bigfatdave]

Now I'm just another old nuke keeping the lights on but I do get to shoot a little more.

Nicely phrased!

More time for shooting and more sleeping in my own bed.
Less aggravation and stress.
MUCH better pay.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Nicely phrased!

More time for shooting and more sleeping in my own bed.
Less aggravation and stress.
MUCH better pay.

Ah, yes!

But truly...who of us who've sailed the bounding main to lands afar would lightly give up the memories, bonds, and experiences?

Ahh, the lands, the peoples, the cultures, and the foods! I've been to at least 17 different countries, sailed under the polar ice cap, crossed the equator, sailed around the Cape Horn, circumnavigated the globe in record time (IceEx submariners know what I'm talking about), plied the waters of the Atlantic, Pacific, and numerous seas, transited the Panama Canal, all for starters.

I've sea stories aplenty; stories of laughter, harrowing experiences, hilarious antics, and outlandish acts of stupidity.

And who can forget their first swim call in the ocean depths? Mine was in 6,120 feet of water somewhere about 17 miles East of Cat Island in the Bahamas. Oh, the beauty of the crystal clear, blue depths! No land in sight, and the bottom far below the deepest you could dive from the fairwater planes!

And I've yet to run across another submariner, who was not an operator of one of the old DSRV's (Deep Sea Rescue Vehicles), who can say that they have actually stood barefoot topside on the Engineroom Escape Trunk hatch...while the submarine was 400 feet under water.

Or (in keeping with THR requirements, the obligatory gun story) the opportunity to go with the SEALs to the range and shoot THEIR weapons! (I missed that one, darn it.)

Life was hard...but we played hard, too. And as hard as it was, there were always people who insisted on making it even harder on themselves. Like that A-Ganger who was blowing sanitaries overboard without following the procedure and opened up a drain under his feet before he vented the sanitary tanks. Life doesn't get much funnier than that...except for the A-Ganger, that is. Seems he had a pretty cr*ppy sense of humor about that...




I won't give up sleeping with my wife in our comfortable bed, or my well paying job now...but I wouldn't trade anything for all those experiences and memories, either.


Kind friends and companions, come join me in rhyme
Come lift up your voices in chorus with mine
Let us drink and be merry, all grief to refrain
For we may and might never all meet here again

 

[herkyguy]

300 days at sea is a dream job?

i respectfully agree to disagree.

my hat's off to you though.

 

[Reloadron]

300 days at sea?

Yeah, well let me tell you about my longest submerged deployment.

During the early 80s I worked NAVAIR out of Capodichino Italy (NSA Naples) as a sand crab also known as a civilian component of the DoD. I was doing quite a bit of IFF (Identification Friend Foe) work at the time.

I was called one evening and told in the morning I would be doing some onsite work so bring a weeks clothes. I expected another carrier trip (fly on and fly off is entertaining). I ended up on a flight to NSA [Naval Support Activity] La Maddalena which I now discover no longer exist. I forget the tender there at the time but the USS Dace SSN 607 was there. All my NAVAIR years I was never aware the subs ran IFF when on the surface. Not a friggin clue.

All message and required clearance traffic done I met the CO and XO of the Dace. They were loading a MK48 torpedo (I later worked the MK48 program) for a practice shoot. Unlike the carriers I was accustomed to the sub guys were a much, much smaller community. Tight knit and some of the sharpest guys the Navy had. My life on Naval ships was a good life as a sand crab. Officers berthing and meals.

We went out for 4 days and I about freaked when that thing submerged. Nice thing about carriers is space and plenty of daylight and fresh air. Subs? Not so much. We ran submerged about 72 hours I guess. They did their torpedo exercise and I fixed their IFF system. I loved working with those guys.

Oh yeah, one incredible memory was watching how a MK48 torpedo gets onto a sub. Unbelievable!

Later came my NR years until my recent retirement. Nothing but tremendous respect and admiration for the sub guys.

Ron

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Heh! You ought to see how they load (and unload) the fuel during reactor refueling.

Lots of armed Marine guards for that (another token gun comment) and they don't have a bit of humor about them while they're doing their jobs. Come to think of it, neither do the Marine guards around the boomers when they're loading and off loading ballistic missiles.

Nope...no humor at all.



I'm glad you had a chance to ride a sub...outside sea trials, it's rare for non-submariners to do that. My dad got to ride with me on the USS Narwhal (SSN-671) back in 1994 when we did a change of home port from Charleston to Norfolk. Three day ride (family cruise).

My wife got to ride for a day on a dependents cruise on the same ship.

 

[Reloadron]

Heh! You ought to see how they load (and unload) the fuel during reactor refueling.

Lots of armed Marine guards for that (another token gun comment) and they don't have a bit of humor about them while they're doing their jobs. Come to think of it, neither do the Marine guards around the boomers when they're loading and off loading ballistic missiles.

Nope...no humor at all.



I'm glad you had a chance to ride a sub...outside sea trials, it's rare for non-submariners to do that. My dad got to ride with me on the USS Narwhal (SSN-671) back in 1994 when we did a change of home port from Charleston to Norfolk. Three day ride (family cruise).

My wife got to ride for a day on a dependents cruise on the same ship.

Reactor fueling is something I am familiar with. On the bright side that is an area we have worked very hard on. My last program was the S9G as used in the new Virginia class boats. If things go as planned refueling the reactors should happen every 33 years. Interesting as at 63 years old, the last S9G cores I worked with should be running after I am dead of old age. The target was 40 years so 33 years should be cake. As the Ohio class boats are rewoked they should be getting the new S1B reactors. Those will go 40 years. I will absolutely be dead of old age.

The coolest program I worked was the Sea Wolf class. I sincerely hope they enjoy those boats as there were only three built. They were not quite a cheap venture.

We hoped to see two subs built per year but with spending that will likely be one. Darn shame as we need to build as we retire subs. Every time the crap hits the fan somewhere on the planet the very first question asked by the president and joint chiefs of the CNO is where are our subs followed by where are our carriers?

Semper Fi
Ron

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Actually, the Trident design lifespan has been extended from 30 years to 42. The original cores were supposed to be refueled at the halfway point...however, they performed much better than expected, to the tune of an extra 6 years of life before requiring refueling. (Probably a combination of core performance characteristics and ship's operations over those two decades.) So they extended the hull life out to 42 years to match the additional 21 year life expectancy for the second core.

The later flight 688's were extended to 33 years...and their cores last the life of the ship. So they will require no refueling at all for their entire lifespan.

One of the primary goals of NR since it's conception has been to develope nuclear cores which would last the life of the ship...no refueling required at all. They've pretty much hit it now, for submarines at least. They've a wee bit more to go with the carriers...though they only require one refueling in the middle of their design 50 year life anyway.

I don't know what's coming down the pike when the Tridents are replaced, though. That's still about a couple decades away, before we start phasing them out with replacements. Next time I go to KAPL, I'll see what's up. They've got some really cool people there and I got some insights about 8 years or so about the future of the program. It's fricking AMAZING!

The only thing abaout the Sea Wolf class that ticks me off are the names. As a retired submariner, I understand the traditional appeal of naming fast attack submarines after fish, and I never really appreciated the LA class because of that. When the Sea Wolf came out, I thought "H*LLS YEAH! Now THERE'S a that means something and will strike fear in the heart of the enemy!"

Then they came out with the USS Connecticut and I groaned. And THEN the came out with the USS Jimmie Carter and I facepalmed. So much for striking fear in the hearts of our enemies. :banghead:

 

[Reloadron]

Retired USN Chief:

I don't know what's coming down the pike when the Tridents are replaced, though. That's still about a couple decades away, before we start phasing them out with replacements. Next time I go to KAPL, I'll see what's up. They've got some really cool people there and I got some insights about 8 years or so about the future of the program. It's fricking AMAZING!

The only thing abaout the Sea Wolf class that ticks me off are the names. As a retired submariner, I understand the traditional appeal of naming fast attack submarines after fish, and I never really appreciated the LA class because of that. When the Sea Wolf came out, I thought "H*LLS YEAH! Now THERE'S a that means something and will strike fear in the heart of the enemy!"

Then they came out with the USS Connecticut and I groaned. And THEN the came out with the USS Jimmie Carter and I facepalmed. So much for striking fear in the hearts of our enemies.

Thank you chief, hard apple cider through the nose on those naming conventions. The Sew Wolf is a remarkable boat. I never understood Connecticut and Jimmy Carter though as a nuke engineer Carter was good to the NR program.

Spent many years working with KAPL and BETTIS BECHTEL. We would visit them and them us on a pretty regular basis. Great people and some of the most dedicated people I ever had the pleasure of working with. Looking back I was fortunate to have so many great people around me during my NR years. The last 25 years were especially rewarding for me. It's especially nice when you have a job that you love. I can look back with one heck of a lot of pride.

The future? Last I saw some pretty cool stuff. My last years were a little divided between NR and new commercial reactors (B&W M Power). I want to see us follow through with the original plans for cruisers and other surface ships going nuclear power.

Well enough off topic. This sort of stuff just gets my motor going.

Semper Fi
Ron

 

[Double_J]

Looks like the Trident program will be extended until 2060 or so per the latest scuttlebutt.
Now to keep this gun oriented the Marines who guard the Wharf have no sense of humor at all when they are on the job. I did hear about them face-planting a 2 star that wanted to break the rules. They went into a security drill and the 2 star wanted to leave the building, which is not allowed during a security drill. Needless to say a 19 year old Marine got to fulfill a dream and face-plant a flag rank officer and get away with it, and he would have been within rights to shoot him if he chose to. I just heard about that one the other night when I was talking to a Marine going off-shift.

 

[GoWolfpack]

The later flight 688's were extended to 33 years...and their cores last the life of the ship. So they will require no refueling at all for their entire lifespan.

It was my understanding that the S9G was designed with the same philosophy, although that could be just a mistake. Nuclear refueling is a massive undertaking that requires the boat to be parked for far longer than the Navy would prefer, I'm sure. My guess would be they would prefer not to do that at all, if they could avoid it by design.

One of the primary goals of NR since it's conception has been to develope nuclear cores which would last the life of the ship...no refueling required at all. They've pretty much hit it now, for submarines at least. They've a wee bit more to go with the carriers...though they only require one refueling in the middle of their design 50 year life anyway.

As long as the company responsible for refueling them is also designing them, I wouldn't count on carriers getting reactors that will last for the entire life of the ship. Conflict of interest, you know.

I don't know what's coming down the pike when the Tridents are replaced, though. That's still about a couple decades away, before we start phasing them out with replacements. Next time I go to KAPL, I'll see what's up. They've got some really cool people there and I got some insights about 8 years or so about the future of the program. It's fricking AMAZING!

I've seen the mockup of the S1B maneuvering at their lab. It is a glory to behold. I'm really a little sad I can't share more than that.

The only thing abaout the Sea Wolf class that ticks me off are the names. As a retired submariner, I understand the traditional appeal of naming fast attack submarines after fish, and I never really appreciated the LA class because of that. When the Sea Wolf came out, I thought "H*LLS YEAH! Now THERE'S a that means something and will strike fear in the heart of the enemy!"

Then they came out with the USS Connecticut and I groaned. And THEN the came out with the USS Jimmie Carter and I facepalmed. So much for striking fear in the hearts of our enemies. :banghead:

Chief, you've seen the kind of submarine names I like.

I keep two pictures at my desk of the logos from diesel submarines. SS 370, the USS Kraken

And SS 479, the USS Diablo

I firmly believe we need to return to giving naval ships intimidating names. What good is having the most powerful navy in the world if we name our ships after ineffective leaders and bits of geography? My vote for the CVN 79; USS Cthulhu (could pose a problem for radio operators).




Gun related:
Chief and I both got to buy ammunition last week, at prices approaching reasonable ones!

 

[Double_J]

LOVE the CVN 79. I take it you are a Lovecraft fan? That is one name that would strike fear in the hearts of those who know.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

JIMMY CARTER (SSN-23) is easy to explain. During the political horse-trading surrounding carrier names, that name was proposed for a CVN. After a brief moment of panic, Navy brass suggested that it would really be more appropriate for our only submariner president to have a submarine named for him rather than a carrier - and promptly assigned the name to a special operations boat that will never, ever make the news.

 

[CZguy]

JIMMY CARTER (SSN-23) is easy to explain. During the political horse-trading surrounding carrier names, that name was proposed for a CVN. After a brief moment of panic, Navy brass suggested that it would really be more appropriate for our only submariner president to have a submarine named for him rather than a carrier - and promptly assigned the name to a special operations boat that will never, ever make the news.

Isn't there some kind of sub mock-up, or simulator that could be named after our former President? Or maybe a sandwich served aboard ship.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I keep two pictures at my desk of the logos from diesel submarines. SS 370, the USS Kraken

I firmly believe we need to return to giving naval ships intimidating names. What good is having the most powerful navy in the world if we name our ships after ineffective leaders and bits of geography? My vote for the CVN 79; USS Cthulhu (could pose a problem for radio operators).

Gun related:
Chief and I both got to buy ammunition last week, at prices approaching reasonable ones!

"Mr. President...Kadzahk Aturdastan is harboring and training terrorist. Here's the latest satellite photos of their camp!"

"RELEASE THE KRAKEN!"

Sorry...but it had to be said!


Leviathan would be a good name for a carrier.


Gun related: I need some more ammo cans. Mine are full now. And I need to add another one for .410.

 

[FuzzyBunny]

First off I think a sub is a gun, so whoth this in mind I have a few questions.

Since I am too lazy to look it up in Janes or eve on the web I thought I would go to a simple source. This is a simple question which is open source, how many missiles were/are boomers designed to carry? By missles I mean the ones that make the really big flash and bang. I'm excluding cruise milles and the like, I mean the long range ones.

One more along these lines. I was once in an area with another contractor and there were red and yellow lines painted on the ground. I ask him what were these for. He said "See that sub they are "doing things to" I said yeah and we walked over to a sign that said along the lines of Secure Area crossing the like will get you shot. I paraphrase the sign but it sure explained the the very serious swarm of well armed Marines that were giving everyone the stink eye.

20 years ago I did many interviews some very long, of WWII vets and the war stories they had. I have piles of notes and video and audio tapes of those interviews. Only came across 2 vets that were ex sub guys. They had some fantastic stories. Some times I ask a few questions and the reply I got was "I can't comment as I think that is still top secret". That got me to wondering and after a few letters to washington and a visit to my congressman around the corner. I found out that tons of WWII info is still top secret but what amazed me is there is still lots of info/documents from WWI that are still top secret! Wonder what went on during WWI that still holds that level of classification, Ill bet I never find out.

Back to guns. One sub guy said during WWII they has a wide assortment of rifles. pistols and explosives (like grenades and comp B) and Thompsons during that time. He said the worst jobs were doing resupply runs to occupied jap islands that had guerilla forcces on them. Said the problem was we had no place to put that gear. They would pick it up off a ship or sub tender and run it 50 or so miles to the island.

Sorry, kinda long post for just one question.

 

[Robert]

This has wandered too far from the op to stay open.