What the Antis Are Saying

[JimmerJammerMrK]

I was watching the news with my parents, who I knew were moderately anti-gun (and now I know they are STRONGLY anti). At one point just before a commercial, the station did a 10 second teaser of the news would be read in the half-hour to follow the commercial. Included in this teaser was talk of the Heller decision. I asked my parents if they had heard about it, which they had'nt, and went on to explain the ban and the decision.

Most of what followed was the usual debate, but I thought a few things were very interesting. To start, my mother called the decision unfortunate, and said that there is a real problem with gun violence in this country. To this I responded, "Exactly. That's why we shouldn't ban responsible adults from owning them. The criminals will get guns with or without the bans."

She then made the argument that guns stolen from responsible owners are found on the street, and the argument about children playing with loaded firearms and killing themselves. Both of these things are legitimate concerns, of course, but can be, IMHO, minimized with education.

Then, I asked her what if someone were to invade her home. She responded by saying that she wasn't worried about it, and that nothing ever happens where she lives. I ended the discussion there, as it was becoming more of an argument than anything (because she couldn't really back up her arguments with logic, and I was picking them apart), but thought to myself, "Why would anyone choose not to be prepared for the worst? What do you possibly have to lose by being prepared, just in case?"

In the end, I believe I was somewhat successful in getting her thinking about personal safety, but I doubt anything other than a confrontation with a BG would totally convince her. Any advice, things I could have done/said differently? I'm not terribly concerned with converting her at the moment, but what about talking to antis in general (and there are A LOT of them here in California)?

 

[myrockfight]

Tell her that she is right about it likely never happening. But tell her the reason you carry is that you couldn't live with the guilt of seeing one of your loved ones being raped or murdered knowing you could have prevented it by taking the responsibility of owning a gun and learning how to use it.

Slow down, be serious, and say it from the heart with meaning -I am sure that you mean it anyway.

All of these people, who don't make decisions logically but with emotion, understand is the emotional side of it.

So put it in her terms. If she still isn't getting it, make it more personal. Tell her that you would never forgive yourself if you walked into their house and something was happening and you were powerless to stop it because you made the decision not to carry a gun.

I hope it works for you. It hasn't failed on anyone I've used it with in my family. It works well with most people in general. It won't be successful if you don't mean it and say it accordingly with sincerity.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

 

[Thernlund]

With all due respect to myrockfight, my suggestion is to leave it alone. You did fine, but now it's time to stop. As you say, it became more of an argument after a time, and if that's the case, it will go nowhere.

Let it be. All that's required is that she thinks about her safety and (as per your comments) it sounds like you planted that seed. From there, hopefully, the seed will grow. Worst case... it does not grow, nothing changes, and you get to maintain a good relationship with your mum, eh?

As for talking to anti's in general, same theory applies. As soon as the debate becomes and arguement, just stop. Hell, stop BEFORE it becomes an argument. Take the High Road.


-T.

 

[Brass Rain]

She doesn't think she needs a way to protect herself because nothing ever happens where she lives?

Does she have a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit in her house even though she doesn't think anything will happen?

I think you were right to end it, though. Wait a little while and try again some other time.

 

[kingpin008]

I'd let it be as well. I don't have anything against discussing gun rights with people, but if it's going to cause an argument, it's not worth it.

That doesn't mean drop it forever - just seems like right now, she's either unwilling or unable to discuss it in a logical fashion - and if that's the case, there's not much you can do to change that. She's got to do it on her own.

 

[borntwice]

Unless a person has been at the "muzzle end" of a gun held by a bad guy, they don't "get it". Once you have had a gun put to your head by a bad guy, you "see the light".

 

[Thernlund]

Unless a person has been at the "muzzle end" of a gun held by a bad guy, they don't "get it".

I'v never had been on the muzzle-end of a gun and I get it.




-T.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

I'v never had been on the muzzle-end of a gun and I get it.

As well as 99.9% of the other 71,400+ members here.

 

[The Unknown User]

Some of us are just capable of understanding the point more vividly. Some people don't take the concept of "self-defense" seriously. That's their choice.

 

[Defensory]

Have your parents read the news story at the link below. It happened in the "safe", quiet, upper middle class suburban community of Cheshire, Connecticut.

It's a myth that home invasions only occur in "bad" neighborhoods. Unfortunately, even here at THR there are some who perpetuate this myth.

The following story destroys that myth. It should also be noted that the wife and one of the daughters were sexually assaulted before being murdered.

"CHESHIRE, Conn. — A quiet Connecticut community woke up on Tuesday to more details behind a home invasion that ended with a prominent doctor injured, his wife and two daughters killed and their house up in flames."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290542,00.html

 

[JimmerJammerMrK]

But tell her the reason you carry is that you couldn't live with the guilt of seeing one of your loved ones being raped or murdered knowing you could have prevented it by taking the responsibility of owning a gun and learning how to use it.

I actually don't carry, but your advice is still useful by replacing "carry" with "own firearms".

...my suggestion is to leave it alone. You did fine, but now it's time to stop. As you say, it became more of an argument after a time, and if that's the case, it will go nowhere.

Agreed. Forcing advice on someone who doesn't want it isn't taking The High Road.

Have your parents read the news story at the link below. It happened in the "safe", quiet, upper middle class suburban community of Cheshire, Connecticut.

That is an absolutely terrible, tragic situation, but a real eye-opener. Thanks for pointing it out.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Have your parents read the news story at the link below. It happened in the "safe", quiet, upper middle class suburban community of Cheshire, Connecticut.

It's a myth that home invasions only occur in "bad" neighborhoods. Unfortunately, even here at THR there are some who perpetuate this myth.

The following story destroys that myth. It should also be noted that the wife and one of the daughters were sexually assaulted before being murdered.

"CHESHIRE, Conn. — A quiet Connecticut community woke up on Tuesday to more details behind a home invasion that ended with a prominent doctor injured, his wife and two daughters killed and their house up in flames."

My lord, that is so horrible.

I can't even imagine what that Dr. is going to go through in the days/weeks/years to come.

A court bail commissioner said Hayes and Komisarjevky each have rap sheets with more than 20 prior burglaries, and both were out of prison on parole.

How?

Their bail was set at $15,000,00...I understand and agree that everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty, but any POS with enough money get bonded out of jail?

 

[mekender]

there was another similar case up in the same area of the country where a father, mother and teenage son were slashed to death, the teenage daughter escaped while the crime was occurring and ran next door to call the police... 6 minutes later the cops arrived, 3 bodies in the house and no bad guys anywhere around... and this was in a multimillion dollar neighborhood...

IIRC, it was in NH about 16-18 months ago...

 

[Shung]

I'v never had been on the muzzle-end of a gun and I get it.

Does it count if you put yourself at the end of your own gun ?

 

[Deanimator]

Then, I asked her what if someone were to invade her home. She responded by saying that she wasn't worried about it, and that nothing ever happens where she lives.

You should have reminded her of the doctor in Connecticut who lost his wife and two daughters in the home invasion. I'll bet "nothing ever happened" in THAT neighborhood EITHER... until it did.

 

[O.F.Fascist]

I'v never had been on the muzzle-end of a gun and I get it.

A smart person learns from their mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others.

 

[Gerald in Ga]

Tell her you hope to never have to come down to the morgue and id her and your dad.

 

[Zundfolge]

To start, my mother called the decision unfortunate, and said that there is a real problem with gun violence in this country.

and

Then, I asked her what if someone were to invade her home. She responded by saying that she wasn't worried about it, and that nothing ever happens where she lives.

So she doesn't live in "this country"?

 

[TooTaxed]

It's very enlightening to read about some of the studies performed on criminals convicted of crimes using guns...do a web search. One major study of nearly 2,000 convicts in Federal penetentiaries in ten states was done in the 1980's, and I participated in one in California in 2003 (20 convicts).

Criminals want to "do their thing" quickly, quietly, and get away before the police show up. Therefore they avoid any potential targets they suspect will be armed, and go to find one they think will be unarmed. Why? They dont want to be shot themselves or held for the police...they don't want gunfire that would alert others and bring police faster. That includes homes for burglary.

They don't select homes to steal guns, unless possibly they are sure no one is home. Of the 20 convicts we interviewed, none had gotten their guns from burglaries...they had easily bought or traded for them from other criminals "on the street". (of our 20, six had stolen them...three from police!).
Guns discovered during burglaries were taken along with the normal computers, music equipt, and other valuables and sold for the money. None of our 20 had gotten their guns from gun shows, pawnshops, or licensed dealer "loopholes"...they couldn't pass the required background checks, and wouldn't attract unwanted attention by trying!

Simple possession of a firearm IS a deterrent to crime!

Twice in my life I have been threatened with unwarranted physical assaults...three if you count the time in New York City when I acted like I had a gun! Twice, by pure luck I happened to have an unloaded gun close by...simply showing it made the bad guys immediately back away and go to find someone else unarmed!

 

[LightningJoe]

Don't bother to try to convert your parents; they're old and changing their minds would be hard anyway. Teach your kids.

 

[Cougfan2]

Don't bother to try to convert your parents; they're old and changing their minds would be hard anyway. Teach your kids.

Bingo. My Father-in-law was a racist I'm sad to say. When he asked my son when he was in about the second grade if he had to go to school with any N*****, I about blew a gasket! I told him I knew he was old and knew he was a racist and I wasn't about to waste my time trying to change him, but that kind of talk would not be tolerated in my house.

Spend your time working on the younger generation.

 

[blackcash88]

Unless a person has been at the "muzzle end" of a gun held by a bad guy, they don't "get it". Once you have had a gun put to your head by a bad guy, you "see the light".

That's not necessarily true. My sister-in-law is scared to death of guns and even went so far as to freak out when one of her grandkids had a VERY obvious toy gun in his backpack and she took it away from him. She had an ex a long time ago that threatened to kill her and shot up the place where she worked.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Then, I asked her what if someone were to invade her home. She responded by saying that she wasn't worried about it, and that nothing ever happens where she lives. I ended the discussion there, as it was becoming more of an argument than anything (because she couldn't really back up her arguments with logic, and I was picking them apart), but thought to myself, "Why would anyone choose not to be prepared for the worst? What do you possibly have to lose by being prepared, just in case?"

Anyone who espouses the belief that "It can't happen here" should google up "Petit" - "Cheshire" - "CT"

 

[justin 561]

What are the anti's saying? I don't know, I can't tell with the tissues in front of their faces.

 

[240GMAN]

In response to the thread starter...I had a similar conversation with someone earlier today. Not specifically about the heller case, but about having a gun around in general. JimmerJammerMrk said something about education and I agree 100%. Even if someone doesn't ever want to use guns, or prohibits a family member from using them, I think it is best for everyone to understand in BLACK AND WHITE what guns are capable of and how to handle them safely. After a little education mixed in with some common sense, a gun is only as dangerous as that person's intentions. I also think that children getting a hold of guns is mostly the parents fault. You can't blame a child for not understanding the capabilities of a gun. You can blame the parents for not keeping their kids away from them. Nowadays they make some pretty nice safes that open up very fast. Utilize this technology and keep kids safe. Teach them young about proper firearm safety and all will be well. I've been shooting guns since six years old and I'm still here. My grandfather taught me well. My mother hated the fact that I like guns. She wasn't anti but she wasn't pro either. She was however, for lack of a better term, ignorant about guns. Ignorance seems to be the biggest reason why people detest guns. They fail to see the benefits of gun ownership and they fear them. They fear them because they don't understand them. And the problem is education, which is what I'm ultimately trying to get at. The antis are simply misguided and ignorant. They've either been brought down the wrong path and refuse to see the truth, or they are too ignorant to see it. I'm glad about the Heller decision and I will always have a gun at home or on my person and I'll only give up that right over my dead body. Semper Fi