What to say to 911 after a self-defence incident

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I was attacked and had to defend myself. Please send help as fast as you can .. Then I would hang up
 
To revist a few points.

Always call for help for the perp. Remember, your intent was not to kill him. Your intent was to stop his attack.

If you pulled the trigger intentionally, say so. Our judge friend had a client when he was a layer who said that he was covering a perp and "the gun just went off", now weather he deliberately pulled the trigger and lied because he was afraid, or he pulled the trigger and didn't know it due to the stress of a life and death situation, we will never know. He walked at the trial (yes this went to trial) but got taken to the cleaners in the civil suit because he basically admitted that the shooting was "accidental". The perp's family got a slick shyster who gave a good song and dance. Long story short the good guy's kids had to take out college loans and the perps kids now live in his house. He was financially devastated.

If you don't have one, get a lawyer. Keep his/ her card in your wallet, glove box, house, etc. Memorize his or her phone number. Even the worst lawyer is better than no lawyer. Remember, if you mess up, you are the only one responsible. If your lawyer messes up it can be grounds for an appeal or even a new trial.
 
Meditations On Aftermath

Our very own LawDog wrote a thing on this back in January.

It's called "Meditations On Aftermath," and every couple of months I find myself citing it for someone.

He says, in part (a small part -- read the whole thing)
Ladies and gentlemen, in the average self-defense shooting, it's not getting the shooter to talk to us that's hard -- it's getting him to shut up that's difficult.

. . .

So -- my advice to you is to sit down with your attorney before the Fit Hits The Shan and discuss what your attorney wants you to do in that situation. Find out what your attorney wants you to tell the police, and try to stick with that.
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Read the whole thing.

Maybe read it twice.

Bookmark that page. You'll want to have it handy when this question comes up.

Again.
 
You better get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut after stating only that there is a dead perp that was breaking and entering and threating you and your family. Past that make absolutely NO statements.

Cops are not going to show up to be your friend. They show up to make arrests and send you to jail. SO dont think that anything you say will affect you in a positive way. If you follow this advice it will save you in the long run. If not....well its your life.
 
As a police dispatcher,make sure you tell them that you shot the intruder and that you have secured your weapon. Request EMS for the bad guy. All cops aren't bad.
 
Hello police? So I'm sitting here minding my own business eating a bag of microwave popcorn and watching the Sopranos,the one where Pauly Walnuts and Chris chase the disappearing Russian through the woods and lose him...man that was weird how he just disappeared into thin air.But anyways, this idiot kicks in my door and I'm all like ***!!!! Anyways he just stands there lookin at me and POW!!!! He shoots himself.You gotta get someone over here to clean this mess up.
 
Learn these 5 things to say:

My Name is ______
My Address is ______
Shots have been Fired
Send Police
Send Medical Attention

Count them off on your fingers and when you have reached 5 - Hang up the phone and say nothing else.
All 911 calls are recorded and you have no idea what you will say after a shooting incident. What is certain is that whatever you say can and will come back to haunt you. So be safe - say nothing.
Do not get into any conversation with the 911 operator... it cannot help you and may hurt you bigtime.
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I must admit, I've heard stupid things said in my life, and this is pretty far up on the list. Hanging up on the 911 operator after something like this can go badly in more than one way. Depending on how you sound, a call taker could very easily think it's a hoax. The SOP for us when I took 911 calls would be to send a car. If it sounds like a prank call, we'd still send somebody, but they'd probably take their time coming. We're busy as hell, and we can't send units all over town lights and sirens to every prank call. If you think we don't get people calling who think this is a funny joke, you should hear some of the 911 calls.

Other direction, cops are dispatched to a call of shots fired and NO OTHER INFORMATION. Personally, I know lots of cops. I wouldn't want to be near that scene without a uniform and a badge. It could go very badly.

Were it me making the call, I'd first provide my address and name, and that somebody has attacked me. "I pulled my weapon and fired to defend myself, and have now retreated to a safe area." Describe the clothing I am wearing (particularly in a public area) and remain on the line with the dispatcher. If they start asking too many questions about exactly what happened, a lot of "I don't know." or "I'm not sure." is the rule. At the agency I worked for, when a homeowner had a weapon out for a burglary or potential burglary, it was our procedure to inform them when our units were outside or within a block or so. That way, the homeowner gets to keep his or her weapon out until units are almost in sight. Then, they are asked to put their weapon away. That's to prevent a homeowner from confronting the cops with a weapon.
 
Arfin - good write-up, thank you for retrieving it. Considering we can't search the forum for 911 and it appears this question has been asked numerous times, maybe we should make that article or this thread a sticky?

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm going to take some good advice and talk to my lawyer. Hopefully I'll never have to call, but it's always best to be prepared.
 
"Someone broke into my home, they took my gun from me, and shot themselves... I know, it sounds strange, but it's true".

:D:D:D
 
I never have been a police dispatcher, but I don't think there is much point in carefully explaining about self-defense, and how you had to shoot, etc. The dispatcher is not a judge or your lawyer. Give the basics as best you can (don't kid yourself that you will be calm and collected) and let it go at that. You do need to say what you look like and where you will meet the police, but the more you say the more likely you are to say the wrong thing. When you do meet police, do not have your gun in your hand - you don't want another shooting, especially with you as the victim.

Tell the police the whole story, no lies, but the instant they indicate you are under arrest, shut up and ask for an attorney. Up to the Miranda warning, nothing you said can be used against you; after that, everything can.

There are actually very few "clean" self-defense/intruder shootings. Most gunfights involving civilians are of the "Man Shot Outside Bar" type, and everyone involved is drunk, drugged, or both, and most likely has a arm-long record.

Jim
 
vanilla gorilla said:
I must admit, I've heard stupid things said in my life, and this is pretty far up on the list. Hanging up on the 911 operator after something like this can go badly in more than one way... The SOP for us when I took 911 calls...
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Yeah... 911 Operators really get cranked up at this advise :fire:- it cuts them out of the loop and hurts their egos. I've had a couple of current or former 911 People in my CCW classes try to argue the point. It is, however, good advise. I have also had dozens of lawyers in my classes and every one of them has agreed that this is solid. To start explaining "what happened" or "I did this or that" will set up all kinds of scenarios that a Prosecutor can run with (anybody remember Mike Nifong). Putting your voice on tape "admitting" to anything is what is really stupid. Much better to have any statement made and cleared by your attorney. Explaining things how things went down to a 911 Operator CAN NOT HELP YOU. Having ONE clear, concise statement of the facts as vetted by your lawyer is clearly a huge advantage IF charged. There is also the fact that your situation may still be fluid and trying to humor a 911 Operator when you should be alert and watching is... well, stupid.
As to the possibility that the 911 Operator may not take you seriously, as has happened in other types of cases to disastrous effects... that is obviously a training failure for the 911 people.
The 911 OPERATOR has no bearing on you or your case. The TAPE, however can have a huge impact. You need only look at the recent Joe Horn case in Texas if you think I am wrong... or maybe just "Stupid".:D

dispatch 510 said:
As a police dispatcher,make sure you tell them that you shot the intruder...
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Why on earth would you put on tape "that you shot the intruder"? How is that going to help you - now or later in court if you are charged?

Jim Keenan said:
I don't think there is much point in carefully explaining about self-defense, and how you had to shoot, etc. The dispatcher is not a judge or your lawyer. Give the basics as best you can (don't kid yourself that you will be calm and collected) and let it go at that.
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Exactly right, Jim.

Some of us spend an inordinate amount of time and money to protect ourselves and our families... training for the "Aftermath" as LawDog called it - and also what I called it during CCW lectures - is not addressed often enough or with enough seriousness. Make no mistake about it, as Jeff Cooper said - Problem #1 is dealing with the situation, Problem #2 is explaining your actions. Problem #2 can be as serious or more serious than Problem #1. Don't make it any more difficult with recorded statements you may be asked to explain or are taken out of context. Practise and learn the things to do and say (and what NOT to say) so if it happens to you you will have a practised routine to fall back on. You will probably not be thinking too straight in an emotionally charged situation and to be in one without a plan has you making decisions as you go along. Decisions you may regret later. If its on the 911 tape YOU CAN NOT TAKE IT BACK!
 
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Hey, this scary guy full of holes just kicked in my front door and fell down bleeding all over my floor.

SSS.

Shoot
Sumon (LEO)
Shut Up!
 
What I would say/do is:

"My name is_______".

"I'm at ___________".

"Someone tried to kill me." Or, "An intruder tried to kill me."

"Please send medical help and police".

Give a description of your self, height, hair color, race, clothing.

When they start asking stupid questions to keep you on the phone say,

"I can't hear you," and hang up.

If it is a cell phone, turn it off. Wait for police.

Depending on what State you are in, admitting that you shot someone could hamper your case.

(For what it is worth: I spoke to someone that was stupid enough to shoot himself in the leg, unloading his XD-9. His girlfriend called 911. The police blocked off the street and called the SWAT team, before allowing the EMT's through. They assumed it was a domestic dispute."
 
When the police get there, have your firearm holstered, provide your ID, CCW, and allow them your firearm as instructed.

State that you would like to answer all their questions, however, you feel ill (or have chest pains depending on your age) and would like medical attention and to have a lawyer present before answering any questions. If this happened to me I'm sure that I would feel ill, so this would not be a lie.

I would not say anything more than "I am the homeowner" or "He tried to kill me", until you have calmed down and have an attorney present.
 
I have been advised by a long-time LEO and trainer that if I ever make a 911 call where I think I may be involved in gunplay:

1. Give location
2. Give name & description of yourself/yourselves.
3. Describe the situation as accurately as possible
4. Hang-up

All 911 calls are recorded. You may not want that recording to be used against you in court by DA or criminal or lawsuit against you. Even if you did everything within your legal rights, it may still be used against you or twisted in some manner to make you look bad.

When LEOs arrive, only state that you were in fear for your life and you want to speak to your attorney.
 
Learn these 5 things to say:

My Name is ______
My Address is ______
Shots have been Fired
Send Police
Send Medical Attention

Count them off on your fingers and when you have reached 5 - Hang up the phone and say nothing else.
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Say those 5 things and only those 5 things, and you're likely to find youself staring down the barrel of one or more duty weapons. All the dispatcher really knows about the situation from your information is that shots have been fired at a location. When a gun is involved, police and EMS dispatches are standard procedure. Your name is meaningless during initial presentation. When the police storm in, you could be the bad guy, the homeowner, the guy down the street, an off-duty police officer, or many of the above. All they know is there's someone with a gun who has fired it, and when the come in it's obvious you are the shooter. It doesn't matter what you say when you see them, a man standing over a body with a gun, in the absence of any further information, is a threat, and not knowing any further information the officers will be on tenterhooks. You wouldn't be the first person shot by mistake during a police confrontation.

Whether it can be used against you or not, you MUST identify yourself as both the homeowner and as having a gun on the 911 call. Then when the police come in, they will expect a good guy, or at least a neutral, with a gun, and will execute utmost control over their trigger fingers to avoid a mistaken shooting.
 
Whether it can be used against you or not, you MUST identify yourself as both the homeowner and as having a gun on the 911 call. Then when the police come in, they will expect a good guy, or at least a neutral, with a gun, and will execute utmost control over their trigger fingers to avoid a mistaken shooting.
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I would not even use the word "gun". It has a negative conotation (sp?).

And I definitely would not discuss shots fired.

If you feel the need to advise that you are armed, you could say that you are a CCW permit holder, so please advise your officers not to shoot me when they get here. I'm 6 foot tall, caucasion, short dark hair, clean shaven, blue shirt, etc.
 
Liko81 said:
Say those 5 things and only those 5 things, and you're likely to find youself staring down the barrel of one or more duty weapons... When the police storm in, you could be the bad guy, the homeowner, the guy down the street, an off-duty police officer, or many of the above.... the officers will be on tenterhooks.
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No matter what you say to the 911 Operator you will be staring down the barrel of a (Police) gun... You should expect the police to be concerned about their own safety when they respond to a "shots fired" call. And, no matter what you have said to the 911 Operator, they will not know who you are until they have sorted the situation out. You should expect to be handcuffed and treated like a suspect until they do sort it out. Another reason to have your lawyer meet you at the scene asap. Which is another reason you need to hang up the phone - to call your lawyer.

Liko81 said:
a man standing over a body with a gun
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This goes further into Aftermath Tactics which is not what the OP asked about. Obviously if you "stand over the body with a gun" when the police arrive you have not done enough homework. Having your gun out of sight and not accessable would seem elimentary... but if you have not thought it out...?

The OP asked "what to say to 911 after a self-defense incident". The answer is still "as little as possible" to get the Police and Medical there ASAP so they can take charge of the situation - to do THEIR job.
Your job is to protect yourself and your family... from Problem #1 (The BGs) and then from Problem #2 (The System). You don't do that with a 5 to 10 minute taped discourse on what (you think) happened and what you (think you) did, thought, felt etc.... given 30 seconds after the last shot is fired with 4 quarts of adrenelin pushed through your body.
 
Yeah... 911 Operators really get cranked up at this advise - it cuts them out of the loop and hurts their egos. I've had a couple of current or former 911 People in my CCW classes try to argue the point. It is, however, good advise. I have also had dozens of lawyers in my classes and every one of them has agreed that this is solid. To start explaining "what happened" or "I did this or that" will set up all kinds of scenarios that a Prosecutor can run with (anybody remember Mike Nifong). Putting your voice on tape "admitting" to anything is what is really stupid. Much better to have any statement made and cleared by your attorney. Explaining things how things went down to a 911 Operator CAN NOT HELP YOU. Having ONE clear, concise statement of the facts as vetted by your lawyer is clearly a huge advantage IF charged. There is also the fact that your situation may still be fluid and trying to humor a 911 Operator when you should be alert and watching is... well, stupid.
As to the possibility that the 911 Operator may not take you seriously, as has happened in other types of cases to disastrous effects... that is obviously a training failure for the 911 people.
The 911 OPERATOR has no bearing on you or your case. The TAPE, however can have a huge impact. You need only look at the recent Joe Horn case in Texas if you think I am wrong... or maybe just "Stupid".
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If you will read my whole post, you will note that I said nothing about filling in the dispatcher on everything that happened. In fact, I agree that it's a bad idea. Hell, I'll found out what went on later. ;) I do think, however, that you should provide enough information to prevent yourself from getting possibly shot by responding cops, instead of giving a name and adress and saying there's been a shooting and then hanging up.
 
One potentially huge issue that has not been addressed at all is the assumption that everyone here - expert or not - is making that the perp is immobile and dead!

There is a VERY good chance that a perp will NOT be dead and if you walk up and polish him off, you are committing murder.

The entire defense of a 'good shooting' must be that you were stopping the threat... period. You were not out to kill the guy, pop a cap in his ars or teach him a lesson... .you shot ONLY to stop a threat to your life.

Now if that threat is still lying on the ground screaming and writhing in pain and throwing blood all over your good living room furniture, do you really want to be standing over him with a gun when the cops get there? You can forget about the 3 D's (De-escalate, defuse and depart) because now it's already done.

How about secure the perp to make sure he doesn't have a weapon and can't get to one and get someone else to call 911 if you have to hold a gun on him? And absolutely let the cops know that you are doing it! Kicking his crowbar across the room so he can't get it won't be construed as interfering with the crime scene, it will be seen as being smart enough not to get whacked on the head by that BG you just shot, but you had better let the cops know if you are still armed before they get there!

So they draw down you… “I’m the Homeowner”… “I am not a threat” “Please don’t shoot” while laying your gun down away from them should be seen as you are being cooperative. Come on.... everyone is making the assumption about there being one BG laying by the front door that is dead. I can't imagine it is EVER that clear cut.
 
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