Ok just finished my ATF Trust and now looking into getting my first couple SBR'S. I wano to keep the package as compact as possible but the caliber to still keep most of its lethality. Looking at the AK pistols in 7.62x39. Another option is the FN PS90 caliber is not most lethal but with 50 rounds of light re coiling ammo you can put plenty of rounds on target, plus this seems to be most compact. There are also the ar15 platforms but will only go short as 10" for barrel. Lastly are the pcc like mini uzi, thompson, ppsh, kriss. Just wondering which should be my first SBR and trying to stay under $1000, keep in mind being a LEO I can get a ps90 for $800 so that keeps all options listed under 1k.
What To SBR?
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Arizona_Mike
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M92 PAP is a good choice (10.25"). An AR in 300 BLK (10.5" or so ) is also a good choice. 10ish is a good efficient length for both cartridges. I am no fan of short 5.56s based on what you loose ballistically.
Shooting someone with a 5.7x28mm might make them angry. I think there are other better PCC choices out there than the PS90.
Mike
Shooting someone with a 5.7x28mm might make them angry. I think there are other better PCC choices out there than the PS90.
Mike
WestKentucky
Member
Everybody pretty much makes a rifle smaller when they SBR...make a pistol bigger, or better yet a revolver. 500, 480, 454, etc are quite potent, so buy one of those big - boys and shoulder fire it. If not, buy a blue label 10mm glock and shoulder fire it...with a drop-in 8 or 10 inch barrel.
Panzerschwein
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I agree with Mike. 5.7x28mm would be good medicine for prairie dogs, but about worthless against a human attacker. It's basically an overpriced, centerfire .22 magnum. Stay far and away from it for an SBR.
For an SBR I would look no further than .300 BLK. This round pretty much razor's edge technology. Get a nice tactical AR in .300 BLK, with a 10" upper, and throw a can on that little bad boy. You get all the power of an AK-47 with almost none of the noise.
It is simply awesome.
zerobarrier
Contributing Member
I just SBR'd and threaded my Beretta CX4 storm 9mm. Overall length is 30". My next one will be an AR in 300blk or 9mm
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
One reason for that is that the ergonomics and sights of a rifle are set up for shooting from the shoulder, which is what you do with a Short-Barreled-Rifle.
Slapping a stock on a pistol or revolver has been an interesting but pretty un-useful idea since way back in the days of the 1860 Colt Army cap-and-ball revolvers and even before.
The sights aren't set up for use that close to your eye, there's no great place for your support hand to go (especially with revolvers), sometimes you're putting a reciprocating slide right up in your face... it's just a mess.
Every generation or so we rediscover that idea (C96 Mausers, 1911s, Hi-Powers, etc.), and then abandon it again.
I am trying to get two one for me and one for wife they are meant to be our go to rifles mine can be heavier but still not ridiculous as I will also be packing a lw bolt rifle in .308.
Wife's needs to be lw and very compact with light recoil.
Wife's needs to be lw and very compact with light recoil.
HRnightmare
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CAA RONI solves that problem! you can even still use it as a handgun as well.
The AR makes the best SBR in general IMO as it is the most versatile. Just SBR any lower, then slap any upper on it you want to, whenever you want. Need to sell it? Part it out and sell everything but the engraved stripped lower that somebody else won't want.
A 9-10" barrel 300 BLK upper would make a great SBR for CQB work. Can suppress it later, add a short 5.56 upper for cheaper practice etc. 16" upper to take out of state w/o having to file the permission slip form to the ATF and wait to get it back, .22 upper for really cheap practice.
That would be (and is) my first SBR, a Krink or PS90 would be a really cool 2nd!
A 9-10" barrel 300 BLK upper would make a great SBR for CQB work. Can suppress it later, add a short 5.56 upper for cheaper practice etc. 16" upper to take out of state w/o having to file the permission slip form to the ATF and wait to get it back, .22 upper for really cheap practice.
That would be (and is) my first SBR, a Krink or PS90 would be a really cool 2nd!
justice06rr
Member
Actually, a good AK-type rifle is better than the AR. Let me explain why:
1. Calibers are available in both, but the AK can digest milsurp/steel much better than AR's. Ammo will be cheaper in the longrun (unless you reload).
2. Piston system is better suited in AK's. Piston AR's exist of course, but usually more expensive.
3. The Receiver Extension (aka Buffer tube) on AR's make them longer than AK's which can easily take a folding stock.
This is coming from a AR15 enthusiast too, so no bias here. I have both type rifles/pistols but in some cases the AK will serve a particular purpose much better e.g. compactness or reliability in adverse conditions. The AR is great if you want better accuracy and availability of parts.
My suggestion is the Draco AK Pistols. There's a 12.5" and shorter models, so pick whichever you prefer. I owned the 12.5" Draco and that was a great pistol--much better than the PAP M92 with a 10" barrel (I've shot both). The Draco also has a chrome-lined bore which the M92 does not. Furthermore, the velocity loss is minimal when going from a 16"carbine to a 12.5" in a 7.62x39AK.
In any case, good luck with your choice! You've definitely earned it after going through the hoops.
1. Calibers are available in both, but the AK can digest milsurp/steel much better than AR's. Ammo will be cheaper in the longrun (unless you reload).
2. Piston system is better suited in AK's. Piston AR's exist of course, but usually more expensive.
3. The Receiver Extension (aka Buffer tube) on AR's make them longer than AK's which can easily take a folding stock.
This is coming from a AR15 enthusiast too, so no bias here. I have both type rifles/pistols but in some cases the AK will serve a particular purpose much better e.g. compactness or reliability in adverse conditions. The AR is great if you want better accuracy and availability of parts.
My suggestion is the Draco AK Pistols. There's a 12.5" and shorter models, so pick whichever you prefer. I owned the 12.5" Draco and that was a great pistol--much better than the PAP M92 with a 10" barrel (I've shot both). The Draco also has a chrome-lined bore which the M92 does not. Furthermore, the velocity loss is minimal when going from a 16"carbine to a 12.5" in a 7.62x39AK.
In any case, good luck with your choice! You've definitely earned it after going through the hoops.
I would point out that 10" is not the shortest you can go with an AR. I built a 7" a few weeks ago and it runs great. Very light too. I just did it for the fun of it but just throwing that out there.
You could always do a Mosin Nagant and do a nice 10"-12" barrel on that.
You could always do a Mosin Nagant and do a nice 10"-12" barrel on that.
bikemutt
Member
I agree with strambo, AR15 is a pretty versatile platform. Starting with 300 BLK I can turn it into 5.7x28, .556, 7.62x39, those are just the uppers I already have. I suppose I could get 6.8 SPC as well if the round makes sense from a short barrel, maybe even .22lr.
jogar80
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How about a Sig mpx?
boricua9mm
Member
I never was a fan of short barreled 556s. The velocity loss amounts to a huge ballistic penalty. I find them very obnoxious to shoot due to the blast and high pitched frequency. Give me the bullpup instead.
I have no use for 300BLK; if I need a subsonic round then 9mm is what I turn to. If I want a harder hitting catridge than the 5.56, then 7.62x39 works well for less money, and a .308 will give me much better performance at medium to long ranges.
The 7.62x39 makes for a great SBR. Not a lot if velocity loss in a 10" barrel compared to the 16" guns. Ammo is cheap. They are loud and blasty, but Iess obnoxious than a 5.56 SBR.
I have only fired the 5.7 in the pistol format. Ammo is expensive and there's not a lot to choose from.
I have no use for 300BLK; if I need a subsonic round then 9mm is what I turn to. If I want a harder hitting catridge than the 5.56, then 7.62x39 works well for less money, and a .308 will give me much better performance at medium to long ranges.
The 7.62x39 makes for a great SBR. Not a lot if velocity loss in a 10" barrel compared to the 16" guns. Ammo is cheap. They are loud and blasty, but Iess obnoxious than a 5.56 SBR.
I have only fired the 5.7 in the pistol format. Ammo is expensive and there's not a lot to choose from.
Arizona_Mike
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With the exception of being a 300 BLK fan, I find myself in agreement with boricua9mm. I will add that the Bulgarian booster, unlike the Russian booster which is more authentic on an M92, throws sound away from the shooter and the firing line and is also a very FS as well. It takes the obnoxuousness right out of the 10.25" barrel.
For 5.56 I was filming some 14.5" M4 and 10" Ruger 556 action last weekend and hated being in the plane of the birdcage. Horrible sound even with ear protection and I could feel the wind of the 10" BBL. I loved how the M4 pushed straight back and did not climb, however
Mike
For 5.56 I was filming some 14.5" M4 and 10" Ruger 556 action last weekend and hated being in the plane of the birdcage. Horrible sound even with ear protection and I could feel the wind of the 10" BBL. I loved how the M4 pushed straight back and did not climb, however
Mike
bikemutt
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In defense of 5.7x28, while the ammo is not inexpensive, I buy bulk "cheap" American Eagle at about $0.40 per round, the "good" stuff, FNH at $0.50 round. On the other hand, "cheap" 223 seems to run around $0.31 per round bulk, the "good" stuff runs around $0.45 per round. What I've found is that cheap 223 doesn't shoot terribly accurate for me, good 223 does. Cheap 57x28 is just as accurate as good 57x28, it's just dirtier.
I have a FNH 57 pistol as well as an AR57 short barrel and a rifle length barrel upper. My observations are no doubt biased but I really like the round and enjoy shooting it for recreation. That I can run all the weapons suppressed with my Huntertown Arms Guardian 22 is a bonus.
Not unlike Scotch whiskey, 5.7x28 is an acquired taste.
I have a FNH 57 pistol as well as an AR57 short barrel and a rifle length barrel upper. My observations are no doubt biased but I really like the round and enjoy shooting it for recreation. That I can run all the weapons suppressed with my Huntertown Arms Guardian 22 is a bonus.
Not unlike Scotch whiskey, 5.7x28 is an acquired taste.
In defense of the 300 BLK over the 7.62x39, the raw ballistics are a wash and there is much better defensive ammo available for the 300 BLK and it comes in the way more ergonomic and infinitely configurable AR. Downside is practice ammo will cost a lot more.
Since I already have an SBR AR15, I'd love to do a shorty AK variant, that one you have boricua9mm is awesome!
Since I already have an SBR AR15, I'd love to do a shorty AK variant, that one you have boricua9mm is awesome!
bikemutt
Member
PWS is doing a special 7.62x39 Diablo run, check in with your dealer
Or try Fortress Tactical if you don't have a local dealer.
bangswitch
Member
Couldn't agree more, except you get better downrange performance than 7.62x39 offers. 300BLK has much more to offer in bullet choice than the AK round, too. You can go supers from 110 to around 190 grain, and subs from 185-220.
I have a carbine length Blackout, the performance of that little sawed-off case continually amazes me.
I have SBR's on the AR and TC Contender frames. I think the TC is the most versatile out there, period, the AR is second. While the AK can be made shorter, the number of available calibers and ease of changing the modular AR platform makes it much more attractive than the AK SBR.
Ranb
Ranb
Gtscotty
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How do you figure? Using 123/125 gr SSTs in both calibers, down range performance should be similar except the 7.62x39 will start them off a little faster. If you're talking about using heavier .308 bullets in the Blk, will most of them reliably expand at anything over 100 yds? Bullets meant for the .308 or '06 will be exiting the barrel of a Blk 600-800 fps slower than intended, right up against their lower operating threshold.
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