What Will Become of the GAP

[trueblue1776]

I still have an awful hard time figuring how the .45 GAP round got past the marketing guys after R&D at Glock.

I got a .357sig conversion for my .40 because I wanted the bigger bang. If the .40S&W was to hardcore for me I would have just found a lighter load.

Agencies that switch to pistol ammo other than the standard big three make me wonder a bit. Maybe the chief got a sweet ski trip in Austria or something.

 

[Trebor]

Does anyone remember the .41 Action Express? More importantly, does anyone still consider the .41 AE a viable round? I predict the same fate for the .45 GAP.

From what I understand, Glock is pretty much giving away guns in .45 GAP to police agencies. It will be interesting to see though how many agencies will stick with the gun and cartridge when it comes time to replace those weapons.

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

Are there an equal umber of manufacturers building guns for the .45gap as there are for the. 357sig or .40 S&W?

 

[ArmedBear]

Anyone seen a .45 Win Mag lately?

I saw some ammo in dusty boxes at the range shop. Nobody could remember ever seeing the gun that used it.

 

[cookekdjr]

Are there an equal umber of manufacturers building guns for the .45gap as there are for the. 357sig or .40 S&W?

Equal to .40? No way. Equal .357 SIG? Closer probably.
However, with both Georgia and New York issuing the .45 GAP, and now Pennsylvania, I can't see .45 GAP going the way of the dodo bird. I doubt it will ever acheive the popularity of .40 S&W, but I forsee more departments going the way of the "new" big bore. Its trendy and old school at the same time (new cartridge, new direction, yet old fashioned in the "bigger is better" mindset). JMO.
-David

 

[Peter M. Eick]

As much as I found the GAP to be humorous, I don't see it going away very soon.

Did the 380 auto go away because we got the 9mm?
Did the 38 special go away because we got the 357 Magnum?
Did the 357 Magnum go away just because we got the 357 Maximum?
Did the 40 go away because we have the 10mm auto?
Did the 45 Colt go away because we have the 454 Casull?
etc
etc
etc


There is always a place for "kurtz" rounds like the 380 auto ("9mm Kurtz") just like the 45 GAP ("45 Kurtz").

Just think of it in the same terms that you would think of the 380 when compared to the 9mm or the 38 special when compared to the 357 Magnum.

 

[plexreticle]

With the 45GAP, Glock was trying to fix something that wasn't broke imho.

 

[ArmedBear]

Peter, you're just listing the calibers that DID stick around because they filled different niches.

I'll bet that most .38 Special now sold is used in .357 revolvers. That compatibility is an important factor in .38's continued popularity.

.357 Maximum was a technical failure, and several other related cartridges WERE killed off, like the .38 S&W, the .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt.

So, while you name the .38 Special, you do not mention the four other similar rounds that did not survive.

Therefore, the GAP will survive or not, based on its merits. It's not compatible with anything else, so it won't get resuscitated like the .44 Special, which it's safe to say would be essentially dead, also, were it not for compatibility with the .44 Magnum.

Cartridge history is littered with far more dead rounds than live ones. CAS has resurrected some of them. But the GAP has no nostalgic appeal.

More examples: The .380 survives in current production with the 9x19 and the .357 SIG, but the 9mm BL, 9x21 IMI, 9mm Steyr, 9x23 Largo, 9mm MP, 9mm Win Mag are all essentially dead.

 

[jeff-10]

Cartridges do not die like they used. With new manufactruing techniques and Internet sales there is always a company willing to produce a rare round. I would imagine you will be able to buy 45 GAP rounds for years to come. Maybe not at your local sporting goods store but definitely over the Internet.

 

[Jason_G]

Did the 40 go away because we have the 10mm auto?

I think the 10mm came before the .40 S&W...

Jason

 

[fletcher]

I'd love a self-defense oriented (in terms of recoil) cartridge wider than .45 acp.

I would also like to see something of the sort someday.


That aside, .45 GAP will probably slowly disappear (from new pistol production, that is).

 

[Glockensig]

Also, if Glock quits making the platform, will they continue to produce the cartridges or just say "tough s---" to people who own the guns?

This sentence makes it seem like Glock makes the cartridges - I assume you know that they don't. The folks that make the rounds will continue to do so as long as there is money to be made. I don't think they are too concerned with the individual gun owner. I keep waiting for my 25-35 ammo to cease being made... I think Winchester is the only company left that pumps out a few boxes...

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Jason G. you are correct, the 10mm came first.
Armedbear, you are correct that those rounds are less common, but they are currently available over the net from suppliers.

The point I was trying to lead to (obviously poorly) is that just because there is a more powerful version of a cartridge, the smaller version does not die out. There will always be folks that want a "wimpier" version. Just like the 380 auto and 9mm. The 380's flourish and survive because they are generally smaller and have less kick.

The GAP will survive for the same reasons.

 

[Vanzpp]

This sentence makes it seem like Glock makes the cartridges - I assume you know that they don't.

That's right. It was Federal originally, wasn't it?

 

[mpmarty]

Sorry but the 45 GAP is not to the 45 acp as the 380 is to the 9mm. The GAP round uses a smaller case and MUCH HIGHER chamber pressure to do the same work as the original 45acp. It's like getting a hundred horsepower out of a 500cc motorcycle engine. You can do it but will pay for it in the long run in higher maintenance and shorter lifespan. The GAP is as has been said a solution looking for a problem. My feelings are that it will become so expensive to shoot that folks will take to handloading it and then the Kabooms will start and some PD armorer will claim the gun was defective and the recalls and lawsuits will start. The cartridge rides on the "bleeding edge" of chamber pressures for the guns it is fired in as most of them started life as nine millimeters and got scaled up to fit the new short 45. I know, the nine mm is a thirty-five thousand cup round and the 45 GAP is about the same but factor in the increased area for that pressure to impinge on and you will get the idea that maybe it is just a tad too much for an everyday shootin iron.

 

[Geronimo45]

There is always a place for "kurtz" rounds like the 380 auto ("9mm Kurtz") just like the 45 GAP ("45 Kurtz").

But the power is practically identical. The GAP matches ACP performance in a shorter package. The .380, .38 Special - all those are of lesser power. The GAP round is no different (except in length) than the ACP. That's why I don't see anything much in it. Could be wrong, though.

 

[ArmedBear]

Peter-

I didn't mean that you can't buy obsolete cartridges on-line.

By "dead" I meant that new guns would cease to be designed or produced.

And yes, the replica market, reenactment, theater and CAS do put a bit of a different twist on "dead" rounds like the .44-40

But nobody's going to be making Glock replicas unless Gangsta Action Shooting becomes popular in 50 years.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I like that a lot. Gansta Action Shooting. GAS!

Who would have guessed 20 years ago that CAS would take off. Heck who would have guessed that you could buy a working henry model of 1860 in 2007?

GAS just might be the big thing in 50 years.

 

[saspic]

originally posted by mpmarty

Sorry but the 45 GAP is not to the 45 acp as the 380 is to the 9mm. The GAP round uses a smaller case and MUCH HIGHER chamber pressure to do the same work as the original 45acp.

The .45 GAP has a SAAMI maximum of 21,000 psi-the same as .45 ACP +P and much lower than the 9mm.
Though I'm sticking to 10 mil, I think a .45 with a shorter overall length than the 9x19 millimeter is a neat idea, and I hope it catches on.

 

[joe4702]

A lot of Glock fans feel the compact frame (G19, G23, etc) is the ideal size. GAP provides a .45 cal option in that frame size (G38). While the G30 is close, the grip it is noticeably fatter. However, the G37, 39 don't seem to make as much sense with the availability of 36 and 21SF.

 

[ugaarguy]

Personally, I like the .45GAP because you can shoot a .45 in a 9mm frame size gun.
I can't wrap my hands around a G21, but the G37-39...it feels great.

Just to make a note here, this is Glock's backward thinking. Rather than engineer the gun to fit the existing cartridge they reinvented the wheel with a new cartridge. Like you Glockula I can't get my hand around the G21, not even the new SF. However, the S&W M&P 45, which holds as much 45 ACP as the G37 holds 45 GAP (10 rounds), fits my hand quite well with the small backstrap. The SA XD-45 equals the Glock 21 with 13 rounds of 45 ACP, but in a much more compact grip. I recently handled a protype FN FNP 45, and it holds 14 rounds 45 ACP, still a relatively slim grip that was comfortable for even my short, fat fingers.

As to the topic at hand, no I don't think the GAP is going anywhere soon. Glock has the influence (and the cash reserves to give guns away) to get agencies to use their pistols in .45 GAP. With three large State Police/Patrol agencies using 45 GAP chambered Glocks it will hold on. If the local PDs/SDs are influenced by the state cops' duty gun it will gain further inroads, and Glock's penchant for selling cheap to put their product in LE holsters will further this.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My only problem with the .45 GAP is the price of factory ammo. Because it's not in demand not a lot of ammo is produced causing the price to be too high IMO. Because the ammo is expensive not many LEO's will practice enough to become proficient with their weapon. That can never be a good thing. That was the point of my first post.

Also, many LEO's like to buy a BUG/Off Duty gun in the same caliber as their service weapon. I doubt they will do so for a caliber which will cost them so much to feed.

If the State Troopers are forced to use a caliber which is not common then those agencies should provide ammo for practice.

 

[ugaarguy]

If the State Troopers are forced to use a caliber which is not common then those agencies should provide ammo for practice.

I don't know how it is up there, but the GSP (Georgia State Patrol) has earned the nickname God's Special People from many local LE agencies. They're paid, equiped, and trained very well. Last I was told they were issued either a full or midsized pistol for the duty belt, plus a sub-compact for ankle/BUG/alternate carry. That was when they were using Glocks in .40 S&W, but I see no reasdon they'd change. I'd not worry about officers being supplied with practice ammo at the State level, but at the local level you bring up a valid concern.

 

[cookekdjr]

I don't know how it is up there, but the GSP (Georgia State Patrol) has earned the nickname God's Special People from many local LE agencies. They're paid, equiped, and trained very well.

I agree with everything but the paid well part.
-David

 

[Ridgeway]

I'd say the expiration of the awb isn't helping the gap.

I'm one of those who can't comfortably grip a g21. The 37 fits my hand better. So it is a good alternative if one wants a .45 cal hole. & when mags were limited to 10 rds for it made more sense. But now we can have new guns with higher caps ex. the new xd45 with what 13 rds? That seems to greatly hurt the gap.
When we were restricted to 10 rds of 9mm or .45, it made sense but now it doens't as much except for grip size.
Now if the g37 had a 17 sized slide that would be another plus due to being able to use the same holsters.

It never caught on big time & now there are fewer guns chambered in it. It seems to have peaked.
I'd say it will linger on while the pd's continue to issue it, then when they dump it it will limp on with slightly less support than the 10mm or .41.