What would you do in this situation: Police officer acts weird?

[GuyWithQuestions]

This is a real story that I found and I was wondering what everyone would do in this situation?

You are at a mall and this man who seems to be a security guard walks up to you and says that he saw someone trying to break into your car in the parking lot. He asks you to go along with him when he checks on the car to see if anything was stolen. When you get to the car, you check it and you tell him that everything's there. The man identifies himself as Officer Hargus. He doesn't seem to be satisfied and says that he needs to take you to police headquarters to file a report. He leads you to a Ford Taurus. You ask him for identification and he pulls out a gold badge and then escorts you into his vehicle. Remember that in most states going against a police officer is obstruction of justice and you can't use force against them even if you think what they're doing is unfair or unlawful. After you're both in the Ford Taurus he drives off and goes in the opposite direction than the police station. After a little while of driving, he suddenly stops the car. He suddenly grabs you and tries to put handcuffs on you. You then scream (in this real life story it was a girl, but if you're a guy you can just substitute the word "scream" for "shout"). When you scream, the man then pulls out a handgun and threatens to kill you if you don't stop. You then find yourself falling out of the car and being pushed up against it by the man. He has a crowbar in his hand and looks like he may hit you with it.

What would you do in this situation? This is something that really happened that I found.

 

[Sholiz]

Sorry, I'm not going with anyone, anywhere. I'd let him know I'll take my car, which was fine, to the police station to file the report. A real cop would be more than willing to show and back up his credentials, and if I absolutely had to go with him - I would take my cell phone and call the department to ask if this was a real officer and if that was procedure.

 

[rainbowbob]

This is something that really happened that I found.

Considering what we would do in a hypothetical scenario can be useful for thinking through and preparing a response to a real world incident. However, presenting a scenario "that really happened that I found" - without any corroboaration is kind of suspect.

My suggestion: If it "really happened" please provide a link to a coroborated news story or other reasonably credible source. Otherwise you could just present it as a "what would you do" hypothetical scenario.

In this case the anser is simple: And Sholiz has outlined it perfectly in Post #2 of this thread.

 

[easyg]

You are at a mall and this man who seems to be a security guard walks up to you and says that he saw someone trying to break into your car in the parking lot.

Me: "How did you know that it was my car that someone was trying to break in to? Can you discribe the car that was broken in to?"
After all, how could any cop or security guard know who owned what car in a mall parking lot?
They would have to anounce over the PA system something like "will the owner of the red pickup truck, tag number ABC123, please come to the security office".
I would already be suspicious.

He asks you to go along with him when he checks on the car to see if anything was stolen. When you get to the car, you check it and you tell him that everything's there.

Not likely, but okay, whatever....

The man identifies himself as Officer Hargus. He doesn't seem to be satisfied and says that he needs to take you to police headquarters to file a report.

I would refuse plain and simple.
If nothing is missing then there's nothing for me to report.
Heck, with my $500.00 dollar deductable for insurance, I would have to eat the cost of a broken window anyway....no need to raise my insurance rates as well by reporting the incident.

He leads you to a Ford Taurus. You ask him for identification and he pulls out a gold badge and then escorts you into his vehicle.

It would never happen because I wouldn't go with him in the first place.
He could take my statement on the spot if he wanted it.

Remember that in most states going against a police officer is obstruction of justice and you can't use force against them even if you think what they're doing is unfair or unlawful.

This is simply not true.
It's not "obstruction of justice" if the cop is doing something unlawful.
Cops are not above the law.




But just for the heck of it....

After a little while of driving, he suddenly stops the car. He suddenly grabs you and tries to put handcuffs on you. You then scream (in this real life story it was a girl, but if you're a guy you can just substitute the word "scream" for "shout").

Let's say that I was stupid enough to go with this "cop"....
When he grabbed me and tried to cuff me, I wouldn't scream or shout....
I would beat the freak half to death.
In fact, he would proabably get shot or stabbed.

 

[bloodedsky]

Women should never accompany an unknown male, even an LEO, to a place without people--stay in the mall. That's a given.

I'm in accordance with those who have posted before me--how in tarnation did the guy know it was my car? Was he stalking me? Have we a deranged police officer in our midst? Does he know my pet's name? (Just kidding about the pet.)

I'd get his badge number immediately and call the police department to verify his identity. No way could the guy know it was my car like that unless he had been watching me or he was lying; and either possibility is creepy, and unprofessional. (That sounds comical.)

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Badges are meaningless. Ask him for his ID card. Call the police and have them confirm the identity with the ID# and description, as well as where what when and how is doing. Cops on duty aren't really even supposed to take a #### without letting dispatch know, and they can't do ANYTHING involving a civilian without telling dispatch. If the cop is really a cop and doesn't let you go into your pockets to use a phone(since it's just for a report, I don't know why he wouldn't) then you and him go to the security desk inside the mall and have one of the real security people call the police station confirm his identity. I would also have him request a marked car and uniformed officer come to escort me to the station.

 

[Kyoki]

Ted Bundy right?

Before I got into an unmarked car with an ununiformed cop... I'd probably call the local dispatch to verify his identity.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

This really did happen

My suggestion: If it "really happened" please provide a link to a coroborated news story or other reasonably credible source. Otherwise you could just present it as a "what would you do" hypothetical scenario.

The reason why I didn't post a link, I didn't want everyone to see what the ending was since it would bias what people say they'd do. I wanted to put everyone who reads this in the shoes of this girl that it happened to each step of the way, so instead of hindsight kicking in and affecting what you say, you'd be put in the same situation of how she saw the experience unfolding. I am curious what people would do if they only had this part of the story so far and were actually in her shoes.

In real life this could be useful to know what to do, but I can't say too many details yet.

 

[Byron Quick]

Asking an officer to provide identification is not obstruction of justice. Requesting transport by a uniformed officer in a squad car is not obstruction. Refusing to file a report of a damaged window is not obstruction.

I recently refused to swear out a felony warrant on an individual who had threatened to cut my throat. I had already checked with my coworkers. None of them had heard the man say that. At court, it would have been I said, he said...so why bother? The police officer couldn't charge me with anything for refusing to come to the station with him.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I'd have shot him before it got to that point...

If somehow I was dumb enough to get into the car, I'd have shot him when he stopped the car a ways down the road, or surely when he pulled his gun out...

Even still, I do not like the part about going with him in his car, since I'd sooner shoot somebody dead than get into a car with them if I was bound and determined not to get into that car...


Your scenario is bad because I would simply just shoot the SOB and move along with my life.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Your scenario is bad because I would simply just shoot the SOB and move along with my life.

Well, I was curious what people would do if they were in this situation, that really happened.

 

[Caimlas]

Sounds like whoever "fell" for that kidnapping was dumb. Very dumb.

Does the cop have the same kind of issue clothing as local cops? Does he conduct himself in a "military manner"? Does he have a radio (which is receiving broadcasts)? Is his car an actual police car?! Is there any reason why a person should go to "headquarters" with an officer when there was nothing stolen and there was no arrest being made of the victim/subject?!

What happened to this person happened due to ignorance, her blind trust in authority symbols, and naivety. There were likely at least 3 or 4 "warning" signs that should have indicated that something wasn't right even before she went out to her car.

If he's just mall security he can ****. No way in hell I'm doing anything he says (buy maybe leave mall property) beyond securing my own property. At that point, make sure you've got distance and an object or two (like your car) between the perp and yourself.

As they say, once you're in a kidnapper's car, you're screwed. I don't travel with people I don't know at least casually, so...

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

In the extremely off chance I kept jerking myself around until I got to the crowbar part I'd kill the dude.

If you want to know what I'd have done earlier I'd ask what made him think my car was broken into. If he described my vehicle and I followed him out and all was good I'd leave. If he insisted on taking me to the police station I'd most likely show him MY (real) badge and tell him he has some 'splainin' to do. And if I found out he wasn't a cop I'd charge him with:

-impersonating a police officer
-attempted abduction (using threats, force, or intimidation)
-possession of a firearm in the commision of a felony

I'm sure the detectives would like a crack at this winner also and they'd most likely charge him under laws I've never even heard of.

People need to open their eyes and see what is going on around them. The sheer stupidity of some people baffles me.

This girl you're talking about? I can't believe she figured out the doorknob to get out of the house in the morning.

You know what the worst part of that story is? People like this lady? They vote.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Sounds like whoever "fell" for that kidnapping was dumb. Very dumb.

Does the cop have the same kind of issue clothing as local cops? Does he conduct himself in a "military manner"? Does he have a radio (which is receiving broadcasts)? Is his car an actual police car?! Is there any reason why a person should go to "headquarters" with an officer when there was nothing stolen and there was no arrest being made of the victim/subject?!

From the record, he acted in quite a professional manner while talking to her in the parking lot and mall, but once he was in the car and drove off, he didn't care about acting friendly anymore.

This girl you're talking about? I can't believe she figured out the doorknob to get out of the house in the morning.

Well, for example when I was driving around earlier tonight, I saw this car with flashing lights that had pulled over this other car. When I drove by, the car with flashing lights had no police car markings on it. The flashing lights were just inside of the rear window. I was thinking to myself what I'd do if something like that tried to pull me over. You hear about people going to the store and buying stuff like that and pulling pranks and jumping people using that strategy. However, if it really was an undercover cop and I didn't stop but kept on going, there are laws saying you'll get in trouble for fleeing from an officer. If I tried using my gun on the guy and he really happened to be an officer, I could be in trouble. Many states have laws saying that it's a felony to use pepper spray or a dart-firing tasers against an officer, let alone shooting them with a gun. Some people say if an unmarked car with flashing lights but not on the top of their vehicle tries to pull you over, slow down, put on your hazard lights, and drive to a well-lit area. When I was passing this unmarked vehicle without a light bar but instead a flashing light in the back window, I didn't see any lighted areas anywhere, except around a corner. I was wondering to myself if I was that car being pulled over if I could put on my hazard lights, then when getting to the street corner turning them off temporary to put on my right turn signal, then immediately putting on my hazard lights on again and turning the corner and then stopping in the lighted area. But then if it is a police officer he probably would have said that I was running from him by turning that many turns. If that car wasn't really an undercover cop, then pulling over in a well-lighted area probably wouldn't do much anyway if someone wants to get you.

 

[Jeff22]

police impersonator

We don't "take people back to the station" to fill out a report on a routine matter like attempted entry to a locked vehicle.

And, as somebody has already pointed out, if this guy "who seems to be a police officer" (whatever that might mean) just approached you about a problem with your vehicle, how did he know it was YOUR vehicle?

You read about incidents of police impostors all the time, usually attempting to stop lone females in lonley spots at night. (We got a report of a suspicious incident like that in a neighboring county about a week ago.) Some of the scenarios posted on THR get a little carried away sometimes, but there HAVE been cases where the SWAT team serves a warrant on the wrong address, and there are LOTS and LOTS of incidents involving police impersonators making traffic stops.

This is another one of those situations where it's important for you to know who the players are. Know what kind of uniforms your local police have. Know how their cars are painted. Know the difference between the municipal cops and the sheriff's deputies and the state troopers. Their uniforms will (probably) be different colors as will their patrol cars.

Pay attention when you're driving around, so you know what an unmarked police car looks like. It'll usually be a Ford Crown Vic or a Chevy Impala and when on a traffic stop it'll be lit up like a Christmas tree with oscillating headlights and blinkers and strobes all over. (Of course, anybody can buy flashing lights, so just because the vehicle has lights all over doesn't necessarily mean anything)

When you go shopping, pay attention to the uniformed security officers working the mall. Their uniforms may be very similar to the local police, or local ordnance or company policy may be to make their uniforms distinctive so that they DON'T look like the police. (Around here, most of the police agencies wear blue or black, the sheriff's dept is in brown & tan, and some of the security companies dress in khaki tan uniforms or with white uniform shirts, which are not commonly worn by patrol officers here).

In some states private security officers may have limited powers of apprehension on their property. Or they may not. Almost always they can apprehend suspected shoplifters.

I would be suspicious of anybody contacting you in plain clothes and flashing a badge.

Uniformed police drive unmarked patrol cars all the time. That does NOT mean that they are "undercover cops". It just means their squad car doesn't have markings or lights on the outside, making it a little easier to sneak up on traffic violators. "Undercover cops" largely exist on TV and in the movies and less so in real life. They're the ones doing surveillance or making drug buys or possibly working a street crime or anti-robbery detail in a high crime area.

As always, a fully charged cell phone is your friend. You can always dial 911 and talk to the local comm center if you're ever in doubt.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

So I was wondering

On THR many times, they say that someone pretending to be an officer is unlikely. They say that if an undercover cop says he's an officer, call the local police station to verify. What I was wondering, what do you do if after you say you're going to call to verify, the person pulls out a taser or worse a gun and says, "Look, I don't have time for this right now". Then what? Or if he's like, "Get your hands out of your pocket!" as you reach for your cell phone? If he really is an officer, you'd be in trouble if you tried something on him, and they'd probably say that you should have known better than to fight with police. If he was a fraud, the police would probably be like, "Good, another criminal bites the dust. We don't like impersonators. Well done." They also have laws about using force on an officer or things like pepper spraying them, although I heard that in Texas they have laws allowing use of force in some situations.

 

[Titan6]

You are at a mall and this man who seems to be a security guard walks up to you and says that he saw someone trying to break into your car in the parking lot.

This defies common sense. How did they know it was you?

He asks you to go along with him when he checks on the car to see if anything was stolen. When you get to the car, you check it and you tell him that everything's there. The man identifies himself as Officer Hargus. He doesn't seem to be satisfied and says that he needs to take you to police headquarters to file a report.

Hunh? Not a chance. Get lost.

He leads you to a Ford Taurus. You ask him for identification and he pulls out a gold badge and then escorts you into his vehicle. Remember that in most states going against a police officer is obstruction of justice and you can't use force against them even if you think what they're doing is unfair or unlawful.

Am I under arrest? Yes? Read me my rights and charges... otherwise get lost.

After you're both in the Ford Taurus he drives off and goes in the opposite direction than the police station. After a little while of driving, he suddenly stops the car. He suddenly grabs you and tries to put handcuffs on you. You then scream (in this real life story it was a girl, but if you're a guy you can just substitute the word "scream" for "shout"). When you scream, the man then pulls out a handgun and threatens to kill you if you don't stop. You then find yourself falling out of the car and being pushed up against it by the man. He has a crowbar in his hand and looks like he may hit you with it.

If you were dumb enough to go this far things are looking real bad...

 

[Caimlas]

The logical steps necessary to "troubleshoot" this scenario are, at best, elementary.

1) Ask him, "How do you know it's my car and not someone else's?"
2) Ask him, "Oh, I forgot where I parked. Could you lead me?"

After that, it's most likely that the ruse would be up - and if not, it would be when you got to your car. Heck, the simple fact that he was able to find out it was your car without getting into the car, and without a police car/computer to run the check, is telling in and of itself - the guy probably watched his victim/you get out and trailed you from there.

 

[BikerRN]

People are dumb. It's people like this girl and Ted Bundy that keep me employed.

I demand ID after asking him how he knew it was my car. If he's in "plainclothes" like a Detective would wear, I'd ask him to call for a Uniformed Officer in a "marked squad car".

Bundy knew how to pick his victims. I guess that's why I don't get victimized. As far as pulling over for an "unmarked car", not a chance. I'll be on the cell to 911 requesting a "marked squad car". If it's a real "unmarked" and you don't pull over the "marked" units will be on your tail shortly anyways.

The stupidity of the human animal never ceases to amaze me. I'm cynical and don't believe anything you tell me. Most people aren't that way because they haven't seen the true side of human nature. If you tell me something, I will verify it.

BikerRN

 

[GhostlyKarliion]

Wow, some people here are actually planning on playing along with the guy, first words out of my mouth, before taking a step anywhere with this guy

"Let me see some identification please" and then HOLD OUT YOUR HAND as if you are expecting him to pass it to you, I have never met a police officer who would not hand over their ID when asked.

Assuming this guy has a faked-but-I-couldn't-tell ID-
Then I would ask him to take me to the car, assuming this guy had followed me in and knew where I parked-
I would verify that nothing was taken and when asked to go to the Station, I would ask him for the address of the station (I know where they all are, this is to verify his intent), assuming he knows where a valid station is-
I would explain to him that I would take my own car and FOLLOW HIM to the station, following the scenario when he refuses to let me take my own car the first thing I do is without drawing too much attention pull out my cell and dial 9-1-1, at the same time set my other hand nonchalantly near my CCW, put the phone to my ear and say quickly but clearly

"I am at the XYZ mall and I think someone is Impersonating a Police officer, he is trying to force me into his vehicle, I need a marked squad car here as quickly as possible"

While keeping my eyes on him through the confrontation, if he is a real officer, he won't mind in the least, if he isn't, well, he will either try to run or attack me outright, the former happens and I wait for the cops to arrive, the latter happens, and I am already set to ask one of my little buddies (Bersa, Walther, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, etc...) for some quick help.

But really, that whole scenario sounds more like Internet BS than anything else to me.

 

[Sheldon J]

What easyg said as soon as he walked up to me it would have been 911 time to report someone impersonating a police officer, mall security has no authority, jurisdiction, or data base to track anything like this, and if it was a police officer just how did they figure out you were the owner, sounds like a story for a rapist going after a young girl, or in my case some real nut case vs old man a very grouchy old man that was not born yesterday.

 

[skwab]

Well first off I don't think GuyWith Questions should be flamed for posting the scenario because there are a lot of naive people out there - most of us who checkout sites like THR are probablly more aware of our own personal safety than most, but a few of the ladies that work for me, and a few of their daughters are candidates to be duped by a scam like this unfortunately - my wife was that way when we first met - not any more

But IMO I'd rather spend the night in jail than put myself in a situation I'm uncomfortable with - I know all of us are asking - why would you get into a taurus? But people like that prey on the naive and unaware. There are so many distractions, too many out there will trust some guy (or woman) wearing dark BDUs with a patch and a plastic badge.

So me personally, would have not gone passed the fact that how would they have known which verhicle was mine - I'm just not that trusting - and for the sake of argument, had I gotten as far as my car - I would not have gone any further - I would have walked back towards the busy mall area, dialed 911 and see if this officer had been in touch with dispatch - I wouldn't have gone anywhere he wanted me to go.

 

[CWL]

Around here, LEOs don't even come out to take break-in reports anymore -you need to submit the report via internet.

Unfortunately, around here, we do have quite a bit of LEO impersonators flashing badges and robbing people.

Go with your gut feelings, if it doesn't feel right it probably isn't. The advice given so far seems reasonable. Don't forget to call a friend/family and give the car's license plate & description if that person is trying to force you into a car.

 

[bsf]

I cannot imagine a police impersonator would choose me as a target.

Still, I will play along. Generalizing beyond this particular scenario, ask for ID and store the info on my pda. If the ID and/or story are suspect, I would aggressively question him in public. I would speak loudly enough that nearby people would take notice of me and the suspected poser/BG. BG’s probably would be uncomfortable w/ the attention and scram. That should be enough. I doubt I would bother checking my vehicle until I was done shopping if the story sounded like BS. It is hard to state what I would do in every possible twist and turn this scenario could take. I prefer to just avoid conflict, or nip it in the bud if avoidance is absolutely impossible. I am not a bada**, but I know enough not to let others pull my strings when my safety is involved.

 

[TallPine]

Uniformed police drive unmarked patrol cars all the time. That does NOT mean that they are "undercover cops". It just means their squad car doesn't have markings or lights on the outside, making it a little easier to sneak up on traffic violators

Just FYI, most if not all of the MSP cars have no lights on the top anymore, but in the grill area instead. The cars are clearly marked, but from a distance or in your rear view mirror you cannot readily tell that they are MSP (until the lights come on).

But really, that whole scenario sounds more like Internet BS than anything else to me.

You're too young to remember Ted Bundy, right?