danez71
Member
I'll just answer the original question this way.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
what would you have done in this situation?
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Maverick223
Member
I completely agree with you Boba. Yes there are certain risks when you willingly step into a situation such as this, but if something goes awry and someone is seriously injured/killed in the process, would you still feel alright about it? I wouldn't be able to live with myself, and honestly I would rather be shot in the act, and possibly killed, than live with the consequences of knowing that I could have done something to remedy the situation.
[P.S.: This is not intended to chastise the O.P., or come off as superior in any way; I don't know the complete sequence of events or the entire situation, these are just my genuine reactions to the story told.]
If someone steps up and saves a member of your family - are you willing to support the samaritan's family - if that person dies?
If you are willing to die and accept all the consequences to you and yours, then that's your decision.
If the adults pulled up to the teens with AR's blazing - would you do a suicide charge into the fire? You might delay death long enough for help to arrive.
What if's are used to challenge the absolutist posturing. The OP scenario still assumes you would be successful. There's a small possibllity of dying. But if we ramp up the risk, are you still in for these teens?
If you don't want to accept variants as challenging to your views, then you don't get that altruistic evaluations are really complex, despite what one might say on the Internet.
If you are willing to die and accept all the consequences to you and yours, then that's your decision.
If the adults pulled up to the teens with AR's blazing - would you do a suicide charge into the fire? You might delay death long enough for help to arrive.
What if's are used to challenge the absolutist posturing. The OP scenario still assumes you would be successful. There's a small possibllity of dying. But if we ramp up the risk, are you still in for these teens?
If you don't want to accept variants as challenging to your views, then you don't get that altruistic evaluations are really complex, despite what one might say on the Internet.
Boba Fett
Member
And what if I wasn't? Again I ask, why is it that only when there is no personal risk, then and only then is it acceptable to have honor, decency, and civic duty? Regardless of whether someone supports my family if I died, I would not want to watch as someone else's children were beaten to death. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
It is utterly amazing how many people make insane assumptions about how events have to go down. Why do people assume that one would charge in waving a gun and screaming at the bad guys. As I said, the odds or situation only changes the tactics. Not a lack of response; not a lack of intervention.
Actually your what ifs appear to be a way to avoid admitting you would sooner see those kids killed than help them. I hope I'm wrong about that.
And situational ethics are not something I engage in.
You can play the "who in the life raft do we throw over board" game all day long. It's complete BS.
There is right and there is wrong. Stay with that and it will serve you all your days.
And your nutty situational variances would only change how the response is carried out, not a lack of response.
If you want to be a sheep, I feel sorry for you. I'll be a sheepdog. If you don't understand what that concept is, that's too bad.
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Maverick223
Member
1. There is always a chance certainty of dying, it matters not whether you choose to stay inside your entire life.
2. I do not consider myself to be altruistic, or superior in any way; I am just a man, but I do consider myself to have some moral fiber.
3. The appropriate action may change with the situation, but the need to act remains the same.
4. There are worse ways to die than in the defense of a fellow man, without such sacrifice we would be living in eternal chaos. Many brave souls died for us to have the freedom to choose to sit back and watch as someone is beaten and possibly killed...what you do with that freedom is up to you.
2. I do not consider myself to be altruistic, or superior in any way; I am just a man, but I do consider myself to have some moral fiber.
3. The appropriate action may change with the situation, but the need to act remains the same.
4. There are worse ways to die than in the defense of a fellow man, without such sacrifice we would be living in eternal chaos. Many brave souls died for us to have the freedom to choose to sit back and watch as someone is beaten and possibly killed...what you do with that freedom is up to you.
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leadcounsel
member
Grab gun, phone and video camera.
Start recording.
Call cops.
Observe.
I agree with the others that said that unless you are defending someone you know and care about, or unless you are 100% certain of the circumstances, it's a bad idea to interject yourself in a violent situation. Any number of unknowns could occur. One of them could have a gun. One of their fathers could arrive with a gun. Their fellow gang members could arrive with guns. Your house could be targeted by gang members and you could literally suffer years of harassment or worse - threats, property damage, dead pets, etc. And what happens when you intervene just as the cops arrive and shoot YOU - the only armed civilian on the scene.
This isn't the wild west nor a movie where everything is cut and dried. You aren't bullet proof or bat proof. The police have backup and the law on their side.
Offer video to the prosecution and/or the victim (if the victim intends to sue, maybe work out a contingency contract on the settlement - call it the greedy lawyer in me...). Or sell it to the local TV station....
Start recording.
Call cops.
Observe.
I agree with the others that said that unless you are defending someone you know and care about, or unless you are 100% certain of the circumstances, it's a bad idea to interject yourself in a violent situation. Any number of unknowns could occur. One of them could have a gun. One of their fathers could arrive with a gun. Their fellow gang members could arrive with guns. Your house could be targeted by gang members and you could literally suffer years of harassment or worse - threats, property damage, dead pets, etc. And what happens when you intervene just as the cops arrive and shoot YOU - the only armed civilian on the scene.
This isn't the wild west nor a movie where everything is cut and dried. You aren't bullet proof or bat proof. The police have backup and the law on their side.
Offer video to the prosecution and/or the victim (if the victim intends to sue, maybe work out a contingency contract on the settlement - call it the greedy lawyer in me...). Or sell it to the local TV station....
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oasis618
Member
It would really depend on the eggs...scrambled or fried, you might have time to take action but you really shouldn't let a poached egg get cold. They just get weird.
Boba Fett
Member
Grab gun, phone and video camera.
Start recording.
Call cops.
Observe.
I agree with the others that said that unless you are defending someone you know and care about, or unless you are 100% certain of the circumstances, it's a bad idea to interject yourself in a violent situation. Any number of unknowns could occur. One of them could have a gun. One of their fathers could arrive with a gun. Their fellow gang members could arrive with guns. Your house could be targeted by gang members and you could literally suffer years of harassment or worse - threats, property damage, dead pets, etc. And what happens when you intervene just as the cops arrive and shoot YOU - the only armed civilian on the scene.
This isn't the wild west nor a movie where everything is cut and dried. You aren't bullet proof or bat proof. The police have backup and the law on their side.
Offer video to the prosecution and/or the victim (if the victim intends to sue, maybe work out a contingency contract on the settlement - call it the greedy lawyer in me...). Or sell it to the local TV station....
Dear God can it get any worse??
I cannot in polite company call you what I think of you.
I can't even respond to this it's so infuriating.
Did you really just suggest you video tape the violent beating of someone and then sell it as a legitimate alternative to helping someone in danger?
Someone lock this stupid thread already!
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You're saying that and you really have these quotes in your signature??
Guess those quotes don't really apply to you eh?
When I was a younger man I held a NASCAR driver's license and drove Stock Cars in the minor leagues. Whenever someone would ask the inevitable question about the danger involved I'd quote the great 1950's Grand Prix champion Juan Fangio. When an interviewer asked him how he found the courage to participate in such a dangerous sport he asked the interviewer how that man expected to die. The interviewer answered, "In my sleep".
Fangio replied, "How do you find the courage to go to bed every night?"
Every decision we make has the potential to be life or death. You could choke on those eggs. As human beings we have a duty to do our best to stop a violent attack with whatever we judge effective. In this case, calling 911 was the first step. My second step would be to go outdoors with my weapon concealed and inform that the police had been called, and I'd begin taking photos. It's amazing how quickly people decide to disperse rather than have their photos taken doing something that could have repercussions. The weapon would be in case they turned their attention onto me, but generally the information about the 911 call and the camera would break up the scuffle.
Maverick223
Member
Very well put, gearhead, and not a bad course of action either.gearhead said:
leadcounsel
member
It appears many of us have offended Boba Fett. Not sure why there is such disdain.
Boba Fett quote:
I think my approach is prudent. I stated I'd video record it. That makes for the best witness possible; better than anyone's memory to give accurate descriptions and objective viewpoint of the situation. I've worked as a prosecutor in close contact with law enforcement. I know how valuable pictures and video are; typically much more than eye-witnesses provided you can authenticate the video. Have you ever relied upon this type of evidence in a courtroom or trial? I also said I'd call the police. We all know that you have NO affirmative DUTY to help - but calling the police is the logical move.
According to Boba Fett:
How do you know who is needing self defense? Are you basing it off of your 'out of context' viewpoint? One of the most important things I learned in my concealed carry class is that you should be VERY careful intervening in a struggle between two others. The example was one man pistol whipping another man in an alley. As it turns out the 'aggressor' was an undercover police officer who had been violently assaulted by an armed escaped convict. The test is whether you draw down on the undercover cop, thereby giving the convict the upper hand and in the example when you interupt the struggle the convict stabs the cop and kills him.
The point is that you begin watching at some mid-point of the struggle. You have no idea what has occurred.
Your plan for 'intervention' is half-cocked. Call the cops and warn them so the bad guys can scatter. Maybe there are dozens of them with guns who decide YOU are a dangerous witness.
If you're in the type of neighborhood where bat-beatings occur in the streets, better to silently observe, record, and call the police and let them sort it out. You cannot be home to guard your castle 24-7 and one molatov cocktail can destroy everything you've built and saved for. You cannot be around to defend your family all the time either.
Wisdom is the better part of valor.
And - as for my quotes, I'm not sure about your level of service, but I've lived it and put my money where my mouth is. Have you?
Boba Fett quote:
I think my approach is prudent. I stated I'd video record it. That makes for the best witness possible; better than anyone's memory to give accurate descriptions and objective viewpoint of the situation. I've worked as a prosecutor in close contact with law enforcement. I know how valuable pictures and video are; typically much more than eye-witnesses provided you can authenticate the video. Have you ever relied upon this type of evidence in a courtroom or trial? I also said I'd call the police. We all know that you have NO affirmative DUTY to help - but calling the police is the logical move.
According to Boba Fett:
How do you know who is needing self defense? Are you basing it off of your 'out of context' viewpoint? One of the most important things I learned in my concealed carry class is that you should be VERY careful intervening in a struggle between two others. The example was one man pistol whipping another man in an alley. As it turns out the 'aggressor' was an undercover police officer who had been violently assaulted by an armed escaped convict. The test is whether you draw down on the undercover cop, thereby giving the convict the upper hand and in the example when you interupt the struggle the convict stabs the cop and kills him.
The point is that you begin watching at some mid-point of the struggle. You have no idea what has occurred.
Your plan for 'intervention' is half-cocked. Call the cops and warn them so the bad guys can scatter. Maybe there are dozens of them with guns who decide YOU are a dangerous witness.
If you're in the type of neighborhood where bat-beatings occur in the streets, better to silently observe, record, and call the police and let them sort it out. You cannot be home to guard your castle 24-7 and one molatov cocktail can destroy everything you've built and saved for. You cannot be around to defend your family all the time either.
Wisdom is the better part of valor.
And - as for my quotes, I'm not sure about your level of service, but I've lived it and put my money where my mouth is. Have you?
jumpstart
Member
Eggs.
Redneck with a 40
Member
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- Jul 26, 2006
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- 2,273
I'd mind my own business, call the cops. If the perps decided they wanted to kick my door in, then that would be dealt with harshly. Otherwise, let the cops deal with it.
Boba Fett
Member
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leadcounsel
member
The concept of NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO AID is based in APPLIED ETHICS that date back hundreds or even thousands of years and have been widely accepted by the great thinkers over the years.
These concepts were widely adopted in most nations, including the UNITED STATES. In fact, the concept of freedom and liberty RELIES upon NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY required.
Tort Law has followed this logical suit. You cannot be compelled to act (unless you caused the emergency or tried to intervene and make it worse). How could you be. That would require everyone have the same conscious, training, experience, etc.
You're either purposefully missing the point or incapable of seeing the other inherent problems of jumping into the middle of something when you really have NO IDEA of the circumstances. In this situation, or any number we could dream up, there could be MANY things going on for which you have NO IDEA.
Now you're purposefully just being silly or difficult.
Anyone can play internet hero all day and night. Getting involved in the middle of a gang fight in front of your home, where your family lives, where you call santuary, is an unwise idea at best.
If this were an unusual occurrence, I would be the best witness possible. No need for me to intervene and foolishly risk my life over what appears to be a gang fight. If this were a regular occurrance I would soon move from the neighborhood.
I HAVE had minor difficulties with unreasonable neighbors a few times in my life and it has all lead to expensive lessons. Growing up my mother offended our neighors by her mere existence, and they took pleasure on making our pets "disappear" over a period of years. When I was in lawschool I lived in a poor neighborhood with Mexicans (not being racist, just factual) living adjacent to me. They found it necessary to play their music LOUD at all hours day and night. One day I went over and asked these two guys working on a car if they could turn their music down. A minute later these two and a man twice my size armed with a large knife came over and threatened me (I was unarmed at the time). I moved soon thereafter. And a few years ago a silly neighbor dispute turned into expensive court action with me on the defensive....
I'm here to say that in this day and age it's typically best to mind your own business. Do you think that 'victim' will help you or appreciate you? You can be the romanticised, idealistic, naive neighborhood hero, but the minute you T-off the local gang bangers you're asking for a world of hurt; they can disappear into the night or prison and they don't care. You cannot win simply by shooting one or two or five of them. They'll hit you where you are vulnerable and you'll regret ever getting needlessly involved. You've got to pick your battles in life wisely. It's no surprise that the majority of folks here say to mind your own business or at most call the cops and be a good witness.
danez71
Member
Oh jeez.... IF people would just stick to the scenario described instead of "What If'ing" everything maybe this thread would be of some benefit.
The OP laid out a specific scenario. What If people just stuck to the question as it relates to the specific details? Is that so hard?!?!
This thread demonstrates a major part of whats wrong in America IMO.
The same people that are saying they would mind their own business and eat thier eggs are likely the same ones that will cry in disbelief that someone could be so cold and cowardly as to not help someone they know that needed help.
I'm not saying people should go out there with guns a blazing as some have exagerated INTO the scenario. But the stare out the window and continue to eat your eggs before they get cold type comments are appauling.
Karma fellas. I hope you are all as willing to accept it as easily when it come back to you.
leadcounsel
member
BTW- In 1999, when I was in law school living in that same crummy neighborhood, I heard a neighbors (they lived behind me on the other side of a small alley) dog get shot (a shot and a yelp). I called 911 and then grabbed my 12 guage and ran out the back door. I looked around in my yard, the alley, and then their yard and saw their wounded dog. I went over there to investigate. I was talking to the neighbors on their porch. A few minutes later no fewer than 4 police patrol cars showed up and all drew down on me, standing there on their porch with a shotgun!
I was dangerously naive as a new gun owner living in a bad neighborhood. What was I going to do if I saw someone with a gun? Shoot them? What if someone else was out there, doing as I was, and saw ME with a gun and decided I was the culprit and decided to shoot me!? Nighttime, bad lighting, itchy trigger finger... What if the cops were nervouse and one popped off a shot, causing a volley.
My reaction was probably one of the most stupid things I've done in my life. Thankfully it worked out okay - I didn't get shot or arrested, and the dog survived (to the best of my knowledge). But I realized later that it was incredibly foolish to go rushing out into a situation where there is lethal force being used or the potential, when it wasn't my fight to fight, and I have NO IDEA what is going on.
This leads me to my military experience. My quotes have meaning, but in the military you don't aimlessly and haphazardly waste your resources (men and time). Things are carefully thought out. Sure, you never have perfect information. But it would be irresponsible, for instance, to send troops into a sitaution where there was a civil war (eg. the bat fight in the street) where you had no other information. You're just asking to take casualties. And that is irresponsible.
The responsible action is to call for help (police), be a witness, gather information, and assist/intervene only once things are cleared up (or maybe not at all). My assistance offered (record incident and call cops) is far more valuable to law enforcement than your proposition of scaring them all off before law enforcement can arrive and do anything. You likely cannot identify who has done what to whom, and now you're standing there in the street advertising you're the local snitch. And you know the saying - 'snitches get stiches!'
I was dangerously naive as a new gun owner living in a bad neighborhood. What was I going to do if I saw someone with a gun? Shoot them? What if someone else was out there, doing as I was, and saw ME with a gun and decided I was the culprit and decided to shoot me!? Nighttime, bad lighting, itchy trigger finger... What if the cops were nervouse and one popped off a shot, causing a volley.
My reaction was probably one of the most stupid things I've done in my life. Thankfully it worked out okay - I didn't get shot or arrested, and the dog survived (to the best of my knowledge). But I realized later that it was incredibly foolish to go rushing out into a situation where there is lethal force being used or the potential, when it wasn't my fight to fight, and I have NO IDEA what is going on.
This leads me to my military experience. My quotes have meaning, but in the military you don't aimlessly and haphazardly waste your resources (men and time). Things are carefully thought out. Sure, you never have perfect information. But it would be irresponsible, for instance, to send troops into a sitaution where there was a civil war (eg. the bat fight in the street) where you had no other information. You're just asking to take casualties. And that is irresponsible.
The responsible action is to call for help (police), be a witness, gather information, and assist/intervene only once things are cleared up (or maybe not at all). My assistance offered (record incident and call cops) is far more valuable to law enforcement than your proposition of scaring them all off before law enforcement can arrive and do anything. You likely cannot identify who has done what to whom, and now you're standing there in the street advertising you're the local snitch. And you know the saying - 'snitches get stiches!'
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Boba Fett
Member
Well this isn't going anywhere.
You can ignore what I've said. You can claim I'm just an "internet hero." You can "mind your own business in this day and age" if you want. You can let someone die just because they won't thank you if you save them.
But so far, I've not seen you say you'd defend someone else...a complete stranger...even if it would risk your life.
When would you defend someone? What actions are unacceptable to you...that you could not standby and watch?
Well...I thank you again for your service to our country. It's that service which allows us to disagree.
Called cops, finished eggs.
What lesson can you teach them, without getting yourself locked up, that a set of handcuffs wouldn't teach them?
It'd be a different story if they swung a bat and knocked a kid on the ground and busted his head open. In that case, I'd likely yell and tell him to knock it off. If he charged at me with the bat...well, you can figure it out.
What lesson can you teach them, without getting yourself locked up, that a set of handcuffs wouldn't teach them?
It'd be a different story if they swung a bat and knocked a kid on the ground and busted his head open. In that case, I'd likely yell and tell him to knock it off. If he charged at me with the bat...well, you can figure it out.
leadcounsel
member
I don't need to say it. I've lived it and continue to do so. My career, and my pledge to the US and the US Constitution require I put my life in general danger on a daily basis, and in specific danger on a regular basis when I've deployed to hot spots like Yousifiyah or Mahmadiyah, and any number of other wonderful locations in the triangle of death in Iraq, or even Tikrit in Iraq and dozens of other places of general danger, malase and squalor... so don't tell me about risking my life. You ever been personally targeted by a suicide vest bomber? You ever riden on roads laden with IEDs, like MSR Tampa? Walk through hostile crowds with suspected insurgents? I could go on... My career involves risking my life for strangers; my fellow Soldiers, Soldiers of our allies, and heck, even YOU. So please spare me your implied speach about bravery on the keyboard. My job doesn't involve taking on the unnecessary liability and risks of running out to break up a rabid gang fight in my front yard.
Saying you'd risk your life to save another and doing it are worlds apart. And who exactly are you saving? Who is the victim in the scenario. The adults with bats, or the high schoolers? Why are the adults banded together to fight them. What has happened that you don't know?
Clearly there is A LOT going on behind the scenes that occurred beforehand. This may have been building up. It could be gang or drug activity. The OP mentioned later he learned that a kid was beaten, but he didn't know that watching as it was unfolding.
The OP stated that a GROUP of adults with bats were fighting with a GROUP of 18 year olds. What can you gather from that. Are there others you cannot see? Are those in the younger group armed with concealed handguns? What the heck is going on? You have NO idea!
To run out there and try to intervene is futile and dangerous.
You can do what you like, but a fool and his life are soon parted.
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Rail Driver
Member
@Leadcounsel: your comments almost make me regret making the law my chosen profession. Part of the reason things like this happen so much more often in this day and age is BECAUSE people like you stand around video taping and watching. Sure there's no LEGAL duty to aid someone in trouble, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. You claim to be a soldier, and I'm not discounting that, but I happen to be a soldier as well, and I can guarantee you one thing... Based on the situation as described by the OP, I'd d### sure be out there doing my duty as a human being to protect the life of another and I guarantee that anyone else in my unit would do the same, including our JAG attorney and our chaplain. (Although I think the chaplain would have shot first and asked questions later... he was a prior service Marine )
OP and/or any other witnesses had no way of knowing. This statement really sounds like you're saying that since the teens MIGHT have been involved in gang activity or drug activity that it's ok to stand by and watch GROWN MEN (can't call them adults) beat on, or attempt to beat on ANYONE with baseball bats.
If you're going to avoid intervening in a situation where your very presence could save a life this is NOT the excuse to use. It detracts from the credibility of many of your arguments. "I'm not going to get involved beyond video taping and witnessing because I'm afraid someone might retaliate" If that's the case you have no business being in this country's military service. Are you going to stay in the barracks when the rest of your unit goes on patrol because yesterday your unit was involved in a firefight with BGs and you're afraid their friends might shoot at you?
@Boba Fett: Cheers man. At least some of us are willing to stand up for our beliefs, and not kowtow to what others say we should believe.
)OP and/or any other witnesses had no way of knowing. This statement really sounds like you're saying that since the teens MIGHT have been involved in gang activity or drug activity that it's ok to stand by and watch GROWN MEN (can't call them adults) beat on, or attempt to beat on ANYONE with baseball bats.
If you're going to avoid intervening in a situation where your very presence could save a life this is NOT the excuse to use. It detracts from the credibility of many of your arguments. "I'm not going to get involved beyond video taping and witnessing because I'm afraid someone might retaliate" If that's the case you have no business being in this country's military service. Are you going to stay in the barracks when the rest of your unit goes on patrol because yesterday your unit was involved in a firefight with BGs and you're afraid their friends might shoot at you?
@Boba Fett: Cheers man. At least some of us are willing to stand up for our beliefs, and not kowtow to what others say we should believe.
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Maverick223
Member
Taken in whole this has been a somber thread...It is refreshing to hear that there are still a few good men who are willing to help their fellow man.
Who is the guy that says the 'mindset, toolset' thing? How's'at go again? Mindset is a big one here. The OP is not paying close enough attention. Obviously if the guys with the bats and the altecocker neighbor knew both that they could be found there and were punks, why did the OP not know? Defense mindset includes knowing your area of operations, what's in it and who's in it. Pay attention to people near you and how they behave.
The next effect of mindset is assessing the situation. That kind of crap is always fluid, and if you're not prepared for the eventualities, don't go out the door. If you've been paying attention you probably are aware of all four parties. Now comes the part people are going to get angry at me for: If I know that the beatees are $#!+birds, and a possible source of later problems, everything is already taken care of. Punks are already being beaten without me needing to do it, cops already on the way. All bases covered. With no knowledge of either group? I'd have to assess the situation personally and decide. Fluid situation, deal with it as it occurs, critique yourself after. If I knew the bat squad to be jerks? I'd act. Being as I was the kid that got all the beatings from kids and adults, I have a pretty well developed sense of who to expect violence from.
Gang retribution. If I'm aware of a gang in my area, I'm going to make it my job to know who they are, and where they live. Not paying attention to a gang is like misplacing a live hand grenade.
If I go out of my house armed with the purpose of even possibly confronting people? Multiple people who I already see have weapons? What is this pistol you speak of? I've got my Carbine or my shotgun, and possibly also video recording. But this is only in the case that I judge by my own observation that I must respond.
Tasty Eggs
Cook fresh butcher block bacon in a cast iron skillet, shell and mix eggs. (I use a milkshake machine)
Remove bacon. Add a dash of Spike to the bacon grease, add eggs. Prepare as scrambled eggs.
The next effect of mindset is assessing the situation. That kind of crap is always fluid, and if you're not prepared for the eventualities, don't go out the door. If you've been paying attention you probably are aware of all four parties. Now comes the part people are going to get angry at me for: If I know that the beatees are $#!+birds, and a possible source of later problems, everything is already taken care of. Punks are already being beaten without me needing to do it, cops already on the way. All bases covered. With no knowledge of either group? I'd have to assess the situation personally and decide. Fluid situation, deal with it as it occurs, critique yourself after. If I knew the bat squad to be jerks? I'd act. Being as I was the kid that got all the beatings from kids and adults, I have a pretty well developed sense of who to expect violence from.
Gang retribution. If I'm aware of a gang in my area, I'm going to make it my job to know who they are, and where they live. Not paying attention to a gang is like misplacing a live hand grenade.
If I go out of my house armed with the purpose of even possibly confronting people? Multiple people who I already see have weapons? What is this pistol you speak of? I've got my Carbine or my shotgun, and possibly also video recording. But this is only in the case that I judge by my own observation that I must respond.
Tasty Eggs
Cook fresh butcher block bacon in a cast iron skillet, shell and mix eggs. (I use a milkshake machine)
Remove bacon. Add a dash of Spike to the bacon grease, add eggs. Prepare as scrambled eggs.
*sorry, hit my entry buffer size*
Place eggs on plate. Sprinkle Spike over the eggs. Top with Herdez green salsa. Enjoy, and decide by observation your course of action.
BTW... shell and mix eggs don't mean put the shells in. discard shells, mix eggs. just so that's clear... Otherwise they'd be 'Crunchy Eggs' and I wouldn't eat 'em. Thought I'd better get that in before the mods lock the thread, and I start getting PMs about how the shells in the eggs suck.
Place eggs on plate. Sprinkle Spike over the eggs. Top with Herdez green salsa. Enjoy, and decide by observation your course of action.
BTW... shell and mix eggs don't mean put the shells in. discard shells, mix eggs. just so that's clear... Otherwise they'd be 'Crunchy Eggs' and I wouldn't eat 'em. Thought I'd better get that in before the mods lock the thread, and I start getting PMs about how the shells in the eggs suck.
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