WHAT?!

[Sato Ord]

Duke of doubt, I'm glad you handled your situation well, but you cannot know what was going on in this house at this time. Every confrontation with an individual is different. These people had done everything reasonable not to escalate the incident. They were on the phone with 911 when the shooting occurred, which only reinforces that when seconds count the police are only minutes away.

If some one has been warned and still tries to break into my house, I am not going to wait for a blood alcohol test. I'm going to shoot the guy. Plain and simple, he's a dead a man.

How do I know that he's some drunken college student who should be sleeping it off; he could be a deranged lunatic? Suppose he is just too drunk to know better and breaks in, finds my family in what, in his drunken stupor, he believes to be his house and grabs a knife out of the block and lunges at my twelve year old son, who would most likely still be up at 2130 hrs.

Are you giving me an absolute guarantee that he won't do something like that? And how are you backing that guarantee up, with your life, or the lives of my family?

Sorry, someone breaks into my home, I'm going to let the lead fly and worry about legalities and law suits later.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Maybe in CO those folks were justified, and maybe they'd even be justified around here, legally. But what they did was so unnecessary it is unconscionable. When I was a young student, I got drunk and wandered into places myself. Being BLOWN AWAY for that without having attacked anyone would have struck me as ridiculous and unfair when I woke up.

If you engage in stupid behavior you better be ready for the consequences no matter what they may be, wither it's wandering into an open for service cesspit or getting blastimated by a homeowner for being in their house. The loser in question being drunk is no out for his behavior, I mean come on it's not like drunks don't commit assaults and murders under the influence.


The guy could have been wearing flashing a neon sign that said "DRUNK" in bright green lettering and the shooting would have still been as justified if not more so.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I don't get it. You WANT to be involved in a discretionary shooting, even if criminal liability doesn't attach?

Trust me, you don't.

You want to do everything you practicably can, short of unreasonably risking your life, to avoid involvement in a civilian shoot. Even in your own home. The holes in the door and the blood on the floor is the least of it.

 

[General Geoff]

You want to do everything you practicably can, short of unreasonably risking your life,

I'd consider letting a possibly armed and dangerous man who is in a drunken stupor into my house, an unreasonable risk to my life.

 

[TX1911fan]

Duke, if you don't want to wake up shot because you got drunk and did something stupid, then DON'T GET DRUNK. There are too many people who want to just laugh off drunks and expect the rest of us to just give them a pass. Anyone breaks my back door at night after I've told them to leave, they're getting a bullet. Plain and simple. I don't care if they are drunk, high, stupid, retarded, ugly, beautiful, white, black, green or purple. You don't want to get shot, don't break into my house. You don't want to accidentally break into my house, show a little self-control and don't get drunk.

 

[moooose102]

yep, in the mind of a lot of people (and almost every source of media in the usa), you NEVER have the right to DEFEND YOURSELF, OR YOUR HOME, NEVER! you are supposed to curl up into a ball, dial 911, and let whoever do anything they want to you and yours. UNTIL it happens to them, then they will be crying "where were the police? it is their job to protect me!" unfortunatly, it really isn't. and even if it was, in order for the police to be able to protect us ALL, 100% of the time, there would have to be MILLIONS of police officers on duty all of the time. at the cost of billions of dollars. sometimes, you have to step up to the plate and take care of yourself. i know there are millions of sheple out there. it is sad. they just wander around with their heads in the clouds thinking "it will never happen to me". and most of the time, it does not. and that is probably what perpetuates it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I don't get it. You WANT to be involved in a discretionary shooting, even if criminal liability doesn't attach?

Trust me, you don't.

You want to do everything you practicably can, short of unreasonably risking your life, to avoid involvement in a civilian shoot. Even in your own home. The holes in the door and the blood on the floor is the least of it.

at the point of forcing entry all hope of a peaceful resolution has been exhausted. What are you gonna do to protect your family? Offer the guy some asprin and a cup of coffee

You want to do everything you practicably can, short of unreasonably risking your life,

coming from a guy who gets drunk and wanders into places

 

[melikesguns]

If this had happened to me, He would have gotten a warning shot on his leg when he broke the window. If he proceeded inside, the next would have been in the head!

 

[Sato Ord]

what irritated me was they where calling it the "Make my day law"
I thought it was called the Castle defense

The media coined that phrase back when the law was enacted in the late seventies or very early eighties. It was one of the first in the country.

The Dirty Harry movies were popular at the time, and every knee-jerk liberal shrink in the country was telling us all that Clint Eastwood's character would be responsible for deaths nationwide as normally mild mannered people were turned into killers from watching those movies.

The media hyped it up, and a lot of journalists (slow news day, like usual) were yelling that it would be used to get away with murder, and anything else you could think of, as well as encouraging burglars to carry guns to protect themselves from homeowners. (Dogs and cats, living together in sin, you name it.)It was a load of crap then, it's a load of crap now.

Yeah, it's Castle Doctrine.

 

[scottgun]

If this had happened to me, He would have gotten a warning shot on his leg when he broke the window. If he proceeded inside, the next would have been in the head!

Warning shots are illegal, and a bad idea. A shot to the leg can also kill someone and is considered lethal force, just as much as the shot to the head. You may want to take a firearm training class, no instructor ever advocates warning shots.

 

[General Geoff]

If this had happened to me, He would have gotten a warning shot on his leg when he broke the window. If he proceeded inside, the next would have been in the head!

warning shots are a bad idea, regardless of intent. Shoot to stop the threat, no more, no less.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

If you could reliably predict the intruder's intentions, then Duke would be dead on. Unfortunately, that's not possible, so put yourself in that situation with no idea why the person is breaking through the door in spite of yelling at him to stop, and no idea what he's on: All bets are off and firing is most definitely appropriate.

Some might wait and see what happens, some won't, but either way the homeowner didn't put himself in this position, and I won't fault anybody who who pulls the trigger in this situation.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

krochus: "coming from a guy who gets drunk and wanders into places"

I'm going to give that one a pass. Evidently your college years were not exactly a barrel of laughs.

 

[rbernie]

But breaking the window and trying to unlatch the door isn't an immediate threat, if you have a loaded gun aimed at the doorway and the police are on their way

Bullfeathers, and frankly irrational.

I'd consider letting a possibly armed and dangerous man who is in a drunken stupor into my house, an unreasonable risk to my life.

That's not an unreasonable attitude. It certainly is healthier for you and yours.

You want to do everything you practicably can, short of unreasonably risking your life, to avoid involvement in a civilian shoot. Even in your own home.

No one is saying otherwise. But when somebody does violence upon the property to forcibly gain entry, it is foolhardy to presume that the are not a threat.

My mind reading skills are poor. When you smash in my locked doors/windows to gain entry, I will presume that you have ill intent. Presuming otherwise is simply too great a gamble.

It's not like the guy shot thru a door at an unknown and not visible person.

 

[CoRoMo]

It in fact is called the Make My Day Law.
I think that name has probably prevented this law from expanding further to be a genuine castle doctrine. The name just creeps out the wrong people.

IBTL because the discussion of sexism and I have a hunch that Jeff doesn't take too well to the "stupid hurts" comments or shooting someone just because they're coming into your house, and someone that you haven't identified as a threat. BICBW. Just my prediction, not my position.

 

[Sato Ord]

moooose102, Right on Brother! I couldn't agree more.

No warning shots, no trying to "wing em'", none of that crap. One to the body, one the head, just like I train to do. I expect that muscle memory will probably play a big part in my response.

Duke, I've used deadly force to defend myself and others. If you want to keep giving him instructions to lay down, go for it as long as you aren't supposed to be watching my back. I am not a police officer, and I will not play games with an assailant. Cops have back up in situations like that, I don't.

Oh yeah, Krochus, if you give a drunk a cup of coffee all you get is a wide awake drunk.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Maybe I'm a little more confident in my command of the situation when I have a loaded .44 aimed at the intruder. What's he going to do, pull one out of his pants before I decapitate him? Giving him time to realize he's in the wrong building seems only fair, and may spare me the mess of shooting. Do I really want his cousins to stalk me for years after I kill him? I don't think so.

 

[Sato Ord]

CoRoMo, I couldn't remember if it was actually called that or not. It's been a bunch of years since I spent time in the beautiful state of Colorado. I moved back east right after that law was enacted. I still remember the media hype though.

 

[R.W.Dale]

krochus: "coming from a guy who gets drunk and wanders into places"

I'm going to give that one a pass. Evidently your college years were not exactly a barrel of laughs.

my college years were spent working 50hrs a week supporting myself and a family

 

[Sato Ord]

Duke, you can argue all you want. All you're doing is armchair quarterbacking.

The best anyone can do to prepare for such an event is spend time on the range practicing, and try to mimic as many scenarios as possible. Most likely, the one you find yourself in won't be an exact match to any of them, and you'll have to improvise. Hopefully you will never have to find out if your method works for you or gets you dead.

Good luck.

 

[pbearperry]

So being a student automatically means you are a good guy?I think some people in this world are morons.How did they ever get jobs in the news field?

 

[gdcpony]

My "college days" were spent in a variety of places including a couple you carried an M-16 to class. Certainly not much drinking there, Duke. Never in my life did I get drunk enough to go into the wrong house. If I were planning on getting that wasted I made sure to have friends with me who might embarrass me, but would make sure I was ok.
It is called "responsibility" and seems to have been forgotten in this day and age. If that word was remembered by today's society, we wouldn't have the mess we are in, I wouldn't have to defend my kids right to shoot their guns, and this man would still be alive.
If he had tried to come in here I would have shot him too. If I got there before my wife who likes my rifled barrel 20ga to spread #6 shot all over him. My daughters might have used their guns (actually my oldest prefers her bow). Then the dog could have what was left. no news story just a missing man. He would have been warned- which he was- but once he damaged anything trying to enter he becomes a terrorist in my family's eyes, a threat to my childrens' well being, and a candidate for lessons in terminal ballistics.
If you are in the habit of going where you don't belong then let me assure you that I am in the habit of defending my home from anyone who doesn't belong there. I'll drive you home if you heed the warnings (I was young once too), but I will kill you if you don't. USMC policy- Be polite to everyone, but always have a plan to kill them.

 

[R.W.Dale]

USMC policy- Be polite to everyone, but always have a plan to kill them.

LOL LOL
now that's classic quotation material right there. You can's get that just anywhere.

 

[tasco 74]

sounds to me like darwinism........... you can't fix stupid and being stupid isn't a crime but sometimes it can fatal........................


LIFE IS SHORT.... shorter if you're too stupid.................................

 

[NickEllis]

I'm sitting in my living room looking at my front door. Glass on the side, no visibility really but within reach of the bolt. If I were sitting here at night, watching a movie, and someone started hollering, and then smashed in a window, I can imagine a few things pretty clearly.

1) I wouldn't be able to judge, past the arm reaching through the window, who, what or for what reason someone was reaching through my window.

2) I wouldn't be able to judge if this person was sane, insane, drunk, or out of his mind high on meth.

3) I certainly wouldn't be able to judge how many people were on the other side of that door. One? Five? Should I walk around from the back door to make sure? Expose myself to anyone who is out there? Doesn't seem smart.

Again, all I've got to work with is some crazy dude trying to open my door, and my responsibility to protect a pregnant wife on THIS side of the door. Am I too concerned about whether is just might be some tipsy student at the wrong house? I doubt I would even consider that possibility.