I've always been interested in adding a real WW2 rifle to my collection, but all the ones I see on the racks are always covered in nicks and pits with questionable barrel quality. Where do you go when you want to find something as close as you can get to that gently used condition?
What's a fair price for a *nice* WW2 rifle?
- Thread starter The Exile
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Jerry M
Member
It really depends on the make and model of the desired firearm.
Tommygunn
Member
A rifle may have nicks and dings, and a barrel of less than brand new quality, and still work fine and be accurate. These rifles have character -- history. All those marks have a hidden story.
If you provide an idea of what kind of rifle you're looking for, we'll be able to provide a more specific answer.
If you provide an idea of what kind of rifle you're looking for, we'll be able to provide a more specific answer.
Just looking for some normal variant of any of the rifles used by the major powers of WW2, Kar98 1903 Arisaka SMLE and maybe Mosin? Mosin is probably on the bottom of the list; I don't know how easy it is to reload for the Arisaka though which is a pretty important thing for a gun with a really hard to find caliber.
Unfortunately you are a few years too late. Most of the good quality mil-surps are gone. Or be ready to pay anywhere from $400 and up for rifles with nicks and dings.
Sistema1927
Member
OK, I'll bite:
Anywhere between $75 and $1200.
Hope that helps.
Anywhere between $75 and $1200.
Hope that helps.
carbine85
Member
If you want high-end quality look for USGI, German and British.
If you want more affordable and quality don't matter look at Russian or Japanese.
I'll recommend the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine. The prices just keep going up and they hold their value.
It's hard to beat a nice Enfield. The No 5 Jungle Carbines are great little rifles to have in the collection.
Whatever you do decide on I recommend doing your research and know what you are getting.
If you want more affordable and quality don't matter look at Russian or Japanese.
I'll recommend the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine. The prices just keep going up and they hold their value.
It's hard to beat a nice Enfield. The No 5 Jungle Carbines are great little rifles to have in the collection.
Whatever you do decide on I recommend doing your research and know what you are getting.
The days of sub 400 dollar nice examples were about 10 years ago.
Bought a fine Lithgow #1mkIII* for $350 about 8 years ago and now one like it is a 600+.
Now it's leg work and scouring private sales sites and online.
Found a martini-henry mk4 for 500. Exterior is a bit rough but there bore is fine.
Bought a fine Lithgow #1mkIII* for $350 about 8 years ago and now one like it is a 600+.
Now it's leg work and scouring private sales sites and online.
Found a martini-henry mk4 for 500. Exterior is a bit rough but there bore is fine.
WestKentucky
Member
For a nice rifle that likely did its part in WW2 I would start with the CMP. The rifles are refurbished usually but are in fine working order, and have a history that can usually be traced pretty simply. Price... whatever the going rate is for the quality you pick.
To be honest I don't know why but my mind kind of goofed and I meant to ask *where* to find one. I'm afraid I'll look annoying and spammy posting a second thread, but this is a good lead.
ApacheCoTodd
member
Where is much like how much.
Spanning from some of the more available like Russian to fairly rare and dear like say.... A Johnson rifle the span is quite epic.
Then, there is knowing what's what ahead of time and not getting taken on a sporterized version that may be beyond reasonable restoration.
Todd.
Spanning from some of the more available like Russian to fairly rare and dear like say.... A Johnson rifle the span is quite epic.
Then, there is knowing what's what ahead of time and not getting taken on a sporterized version that may be beyond reasonable restoration.
Todd.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Carcanos and Arisakas are going to be the cheapest, but you may have to be patient to find a super clean one. Avoid the 7.35 Carcano if you ever want to shoot it......
Next up are Mosins. Many like new ones still floating around for $400-450 ish.
Turkish and Yugo Mausers are still about for sub-$500, once again you just have to wait for a nice one to come along. Avoid the '93 action Turks as they were rebored for 8mm and have iffy chambers.
French rifles take weird ammo, but arent super pricey and there are still many many very nice MAS39 out there as most were never issued before France fell.
Spanish Mausers saw action with their troops in the civil war and with the Blue Division in Russia, those are still in the $400 range. The Fr8 is technically post-war, but IMO one of the best Mausers ever made and shoots common .308. And of course there are lots of S.American Mausers still reasonably priced, but they saw limited combat. Of course, the Argentine and Brazilian guns can often be found in unissued condition. Clean German K98s seem to be running $750ish these days.
Next are Enfields. Indian Ishapores command slightly lower premiums over their English or Commonwealth equivalents. The later .308 Ishapores from the '50s saw lots of action, just not in WW2, but are still great shooters.
Finally, any US WW2 rifle is going to be near a grand now, with clean ones going higher. Cant go wrong with an M1, Carbine, or 03A3 though- all are sweet shootin guns. Avoid low numbered M1903s unless you are familiar with their metallurgy issues. And although the M1917 didnt see much use by US troops in WW2, many were given to England, Greece, China, and the Free French so they can be considered legit WW2 guns.
Next up are Mosins. Many like new ones still floating around for $400-450 ish.
Turkish and Yugo Mausers are still about for sub-$500, once again you just have to wait for a nice one to come along. Avoid the '93 action Turks as they were rebored for 8mm and have iffy chambers.
French rifles take weird ammo, but arent super pricey and there are still many many very nice MAS39 out there as most were never issued before France fell.
Spanish Mausers saw action with their troops in the civil war and with the Blue Division in Russia, those are still in the $400 range. The Fr8 is technically post-war, but IMO one of the best Mausers ever made and shoots common .308. And of course there are lots of S.American Mausers still reasonably priced, but they saw limited combat. Of course, the Argentine and Brazilian guns can often be found in unissued condition. Clean German K98s seem to be running $750ish these days.
Next are Enfields. Indian Ishapores command slightly lower premiums over their English or Commonwealth equivalents. The later .308 Ishapores from the '50s saw lots of action, just not in WW2, but are still great shooters.
Finally, any US WW2 rifle is going to be near a grand now, with clean ones going higher. Cant go wrong with an M1, Carbine, or 03A3 though- all are sweet shootin guns. Avoid low numbered M1903s unless you are familiar with their metallurgy issues. And although the M1917 didnt see much use by US troops in WW2, many were given to England, Greece, China, and the Free French so they can be considered legit WW2 guns.
Ignition Override
Member
Whatever a typical market price is these days, for a given condition with matching bolt/receiver etc.
Despite some odd winning bids, you know how to use "Advanced" on Gunbroker, to check "Completed Auctions" on the next page? This is just for general comparisons.
I believe that neither a buyer nor seller should expect to be Entitled to a much better deal than whichever market price is current.
Despite some odd winning bids, you know how to use "Advanced" on Gunbroker, to check "Completed Auctions" on the next page? This is just for general comparisons.
I believe that neither a buyer nor seller should expect to be Entitled to a much better deal than whichever market price is current.
Thought they were sold out last time I checked, which was 2014
Officers'Wife
Member
About a year ago I saw a Springfield in fairly good condition priced at 500 at a private sale. I came very close to buying it but the seller... Let's just say I hate to buy firearms from strangers and leave it go at that.
Every so often when I'm practicing with my Enfield I have to wonder if my uncle was telling me the truth that he bought it at a small town hardware store for twenty dollars where they had a Duke's mixture of war rifles muzzle down in a wooden barrel. My dad often used surplus rifles as an economic lesson on the principle of artificial scarcity. He still claims that the 1968 gun control act had nothing to do with crime prevention and everything to do with protecting Colt Firearms marketshare.
Every so often when I'm practicing with my Enfield I have to wonder if my uncle was telling me the truth that he bought it at a small town hardware store for twenty dollars where they had a Duke's mixture of war rifles muzzle down in a wooden barrel. My dad often used surplus rifles as an economic lesson on the principle of artificial scarcity. He still claims that the 1968 gun control act had nothing to do with crime prevention and everything to do with protecting Colt Firearms marketshare.
badkarmamib
Member
They are getting something like 10K a year returned from the Philippines. I got a VERY nice Service Grade for $750 to my door last spring.
rdnktrkr
Member
I'll second the CMP, sometimes they also have 03A3s, I have a couple of each and the Garands are always a hit at the range. Be sure to use correct ammo for the Garand M2ball or equivalent. I purchased multiple "tins" of 8mm for my Mausers years ago when it was cheap, 303brit has gone up and needs a .311 bullet, 6.5jap is $1.50 ea and up but uses a 140gr 6.5 bullet that is reasonable to reload.
Depends on what you want it for--pristine examples of military rifles are collector items and their very scarcity drives the price up. In most cases, these rifles have not been "new" for over 70+ years and even some of the collector items will exhibit some storage wear. The collector grade rifles are bought for their perfect appearance and shooting them will more likely decrease their value.
The shooter grade is pretty broad but a rifle with little or no original finish might just have a fine bore. A rifle that looks pretty on the outside might have a crappy bore. And some of the shooter grades will shoot patterns like a shotgun while others, despite being worn, having dark and pitted bores, might shoot good groups for military rifles (2-5 MOA) @ 100 yds is not uncommon with issued iron sights.
At the bottom end, are rifles that have severe pitting, virtually no rifling, or are converted, monkeyed with, sportered, etc.
The cheapest way to buy a good looking and shooting Enfield, if that is what you want, is to buy one of the plentiful sporterized versions. If you get one that doesn't have the barrel chopped, you always have the option later of trying to restore it. In most military rifles, barrels are no longer made, and to have a duplicate barrel made for a 6.5 Norweigian Krag has no economic sense.
You want one in military trim, keep an eye out at Century International and get your collector version of an FFL where you can buy direct. They are selling a bunch of sad looking Enfields converted to .410 but with full stocks, etc. You clean it up, you can have a presentable wall hanger. You can also get other rifles from them, time to time, now in small quantities. J&G Sales is another place to find these.
Checkpoint Charlies, Simpsons Ltd, Liberty Tree Collectors, oldguns.net, Joe Salter, and some other dealers found in the shrunken Gun Digest magazine still have collector military rifles available but you will pay the market price and perhaps a bit more with a bit more protection on provenance, etc.
Gunbroker and other auctions, and don't forget pawn shops and the like, can be a good place to get either low end parts rifles or sportered versions. Pawn shops and local gun stores either price the sportered versions cheap or they price them as if they are complete pristine military rifles which is a bit idiotic (but hey, they have a cheap commercial scope on them) so they can be hit or miss.
In sum, for a rifle that is both collectible and shootable, and a fine piece of U.S. military history, you cannot go wrong with a CMP Garand. Ammo is and will be available as are spare parts. They have different grades and if you want a pristine one with excellent provenance, they have them or if you want a service grade, they have them.
Don't buy a collector grade and hack it up to make an inferior sporter. Best to sell it and then get a new commercial rifle that will be more accurate, have spare parts, and usually be in cartridges that you want to shoot. Taking a T38 Arisaka in full battle dress to make it a chopped barrel bambi blaster in 6.5 Creedmoor is a fools errand.
The shooter grade is pretty broad but a rifle with little or no original finish might just have a fine bore. A rifle that looks pretty on the outside might have a crappy bore. And some of the shooter grades will shoot patterns like a shotgun while others, despite being worn, having dark and pitted bores, might shoot good groups for military rifles (2-5 MOA) @ 100 yds is not uncommon with issued iron sights.
At the bottom end, are rifles that have severe pitting, virtually no rifling, or are converted, monkeyed with, sportered, etc.
The cheapest way to buy a good looking and shooting Enfield, if that is what you want, is to buy one of the plentiful sporterized versions. If you get one that doesn't have the barrel chopped, you always have the option later of trying to restore it. In most military rifles, barrels are no longer made, and to have a duplicate barrel made for a 6.5 Norweigian Krag has no economic sense.
You want one in military trim, keep an eye out at Century International and get your collector version of an FFL where you can buy direct. They are selling a bunch of sad looking Enfields converted to .410 but with full stocks, etc. You clean it up, you can have a presentable wall hanger. You can also get other rifles from them, time to time, now in small quantities. J&G Sales is another place to find these.
Checkpoint Charlies, Simpsons Ltd, Liberty Tree Collectors, oldguns.net, Joe Salter, and some other dealers found in the shrunken Gun Digest magazine still have collector military rifles available but you will pay the market price and perhaps a bit more with a bit more protection on provenance, etc.
Gunbroker and other auctions, and don't forget pawn shops and the like, can be a good place to get either low end parts rifles or sportered versions. Pawn shops and local gun stores either price the sportered versions cheap or they price them as if they are complete pristine military rifles which is a bit idiotic (but hey, they have a cheap commercial scope on them) so they can be hit or miss.
In sum, for a rifle that is both collectible and shootable, and a fine piece of U.S. military history, you cannot go wrong with a CMP Garand. Ammo is and will be available as are spare parts. They have different grades and if you want a pristine one with excellent provenance, they have them or if you want a service grade, they have them.
Don't buy a collector grade and hack it up to make an inferior sporter. Best to sell it and then get a new commercial rifle that will be more accurate, have spare parts, and usually be in cartridges that you want to shoot. Taking a T38 Arisaka in full battle dress to make it a chopped barrel bambi blaster in 6.5 Creedmoor is a fools errand.
I passed on a G41 for $8500....and still kick myself for doing it.
Walked away from a Johnson for $2500.....see above.
G43 in shootable shape is going to be well north of $1200....and that is a fairly common gun.
SVT40....again getting up there, but 1200 would be well north.....and again pretty common.
Point is there are some odd ducks that will cost way more, and then some of the less common still reaching some higher prices now.
I will answer one question you had about reloading for the Jap rifle (no insult intended by that I got a ban for using Jap for japanese...it is just shorter) or for the french rifle....if you reload for any other centerfire rifle....here there same same. Brass is out there for 7.7 and 7.5, as well as most of the odd duck flavors out there. I will also chime in here and say if you buy yourself a good ole' merican M1 garand your rifle is not going to be happy for long shooting "normal" 3006 you get from da walmarts.....parts of that gun will be very unhappy.
My suggestion once your toe dips into the surplus pool one of two things are going to happen....you will find yourself in the deep end very quick and a wife saying don't you already have 3 of those (or in gunny's case 33 of those), or you will say this heavy thing with a crap trigger shoots like garbage....why do people fawn over them like this, my Savage axis that I got on sale for $100 shoots better.
Look at what you want....if you want a 98K save pennies while looking and get that....it took me almost two years to find my type 99 (I need to post up a photo sometime)....the search can take a while, and that is part of the fun.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
CMP gets rifles in batches -- recently they imported a shipload of circa 70K Garands in various conditions from the Philippines. Check periodically and have faith, as they are still about the most reasonably-priced source for US WWII rifles.
I limit myself to the local trade to put brakes on my spending, but if you're serious about building a collection your first step should be acquiring a C&R FFL. That way the whole USA becomes your playing field and you aren't stuck with local prices. For example, in my area (Central California) any of the common US wood and steel service rifles, including M1 Carbines and M1917 Enfields, are selling north of a grand in nice condition. It is becoming common to see Garands and '03s priced closer to $2K around here. Nazi-proofed M98s are also going for around a grand in decent condition. I paid $400 a couple years back for an arsenal reworked MAS36 and that was after haggling.
Here's more good advice to the new collector:
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GE-Mini-Gun
Member
Close on the low end...upper end not so much. Upper end can get into the 6 figure range, if it's the right gun, more common stuff mid 5 figures
theotherwaldo
Member
I've had good luck checking pawn shops, gun shops and gun shows near large retirement areas.
This approach has landed me examples of all of the rifles mentioned so far except the FR-8 - and I'm still looking for one of those... .
This approach has landed me examples of all of the rifles mentioned so far except the FR-8 - and I'm still looking for one of those... .
bangswitch
Member
You can always do an internet search for a particular rifle, simply by entering "XXXX rifle for sale". You'll get hits on Armslist and Gunbroker and Craigslist, as well as other sites, and occasionally a private sale. Look for Military surplus pawn shops; they tend to have a variety of military firearms for sale. Those tend to exist dependent a lot on whatever the state laws are regarding firearms sales. M1 Garands, M1 carbines, 1903's are out there if you want an American-issue rifle; and don't discount the Mosin-Nagant 91/30. It was, for a short period, a US-issued rifle, used for training, after the Russians cancelled a large order of them made by Winchester just before the 1917 Revolution. 91/30's are available in pretty good shooting shape, but expect them to look their age. In any case if you find a rifle you think you might like, especially if it was a foreign-issue gun (Arisaka or Mosin, etc) do your research before laying out the cash. Here's some good reading on the Mosin rifles, the 91/30 and it's "little brother" the M44 carbine:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM9130S.htm
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Russian-M44-Carbine.asp
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM9130S.htm
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Russian-M44-Carbine.asp
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