whats so good about mosins?

[leadcounsel]

...turd....

?!?!?!?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin–Nagant

Um... I don't think so.

Anyone saying a Mosin is a "turd" is opening themselves up to serious criticism. A lifetime of shooting yet never shooting one of the most prolific rifles in the history of the world - not much variety in my humble opinion. That'd be like criticising the Remington 870 yet never shooting one.

I think someone refering to the Mosin as a "turd" has ZERO credibility in the gun world. The Mosin carried the day for the Ruskies for decades and was used in WWI and WWII (by the way, the Ruskies have a proven track record with guns, replacing the Mosin with the SKS and then the AK47 and AK74, and also brought us the Makarov and Tokarev)... The list of rifles that have seen as much action as Mosins is very very short. I can't think of many frankly. Tens of millions of them have been manufactured.

Heck, I think WWII sniper Mosins were among the most accurate in the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev

On 22 September 1942, Zaytsev crossed the River Volga and joined the 1047th Rifle Regiment of the 284th Rifle Division of the 62nd Army, headed by General Nikolai Batyuk. One day, Zaytsev’s commanding officer called him up and pointed at an enemy soldier in a window 800 metres away. Zaytsev took aim from his standard-issue Mosin-Nagant rifle, and with one shot, the soldier was down. In less than a few moments, two other German soldiers appeared in the window, checking their fallen officer. Vasily fired two more shots, and they were killed

Prior to 10 November, Zaytsev had already killed 32 Axis soldiers with the standard-issue Mosin–Nagant rifle. Between October 1942 and January 1943, Zaytsev made an estimated 400 kills.

So, imagine being in a city overrun by Germans. You'd have to have absolute faith in the accuracy of your rifle at long range so you could fire and then escape.

The Mosin is prolific throughout the world and saw action in nearly EVERY global conflict since WWI and is used in dozens of nations. These were recovered in large numbers in Vietnam and even Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom.

Rugged durability, battle simplicity and accuracy...

So, it's clearly not a "turd."

 

[CraigC]

A lifetime of shooting but never shot a Mosin so you know all there is to know about Mosins?

I know enough to know I do not want one. I'm VERY confident in my ability to decide which guns are worth owning and which are not. The Mosin might be a fine rifle if all you can afford is $100 com-block surplus.

But, you trash something you admit you have never owned.

Like I said, several times now, I don't have to buy one to know that I do not want to own one. There's that lovely gift of deductive reasoning again.

What do the large numbers of Mosin owners say? How about listen to them.

I do. I'm listening here and what I hear is that people buy them for the reason I said they buy them. Because they are cheap. I also hear that they are cheap in a negative way. Very poorly machined, heavy triggers, very poorly designed stocks that punish the shooter, etc., etc.. People usually ardently defend their own choices so the response here is to be expected.

So, it's clearly not a "turd."

I never said it was a turd. Work on your reading comprehension, counselor.

Tens of millions of them have been manufactured.

And that automatically makes them good? I reckon that's enough for the fanboys. For me, I have to ask "why?". The reason is clear for those objective enough to see beyond their choice in weaponry. I would only hope that we would see such a response in a thread trashing M1 Garands or 1903's as we do for a rifle built by communists to arm a conscript army. Jesus, I don't see such frothing at the mouth when someone insults John Browning.

 

[DPris]

Personally, I find them a moderately interesting piece of military history that uses a fairly inefficient design (short straight bolt, awkward safety) to begin with, and frequently comes in mediocre overall condition nowdays with flaking stocks and bolts & chambers that need serious attention to de-cosmolining in avoiding the sticky bolt lift.
Sights are rarely "on" & frequently need some work at the front end to get them there.

The price of the gun & remaining stocks of relatively cheap surplus ammunition are probably the biggest reasons for non-mil collectors to buy them.

They are reasonably powerful, typically quite reliable, can be decently accurate.
They are not the equal in either design or execution of a contemporary Mauser or Enfield.
They were stored in conditions that have left warped wood, flaking varnish, and rust craters in barrel exteriors below the woodline.
Triggers are atrocious.
In original military form they can punish a shoulder fairly well.

Otherwise, they're cheap & a part of military nostalgia that can be fun to shoot, if you enjoy its shortcomings.

I have three, including one that has had several times more work put into it & glass put on it than it's worth.
I have Mausers.
I have owned several Enfields & still have an un-issued No4 MKII.
If I wanted a practical boltgun in military trim for serious purposes, including either hunting or as a general purpose rifle, the Mosin would be at the bottom of those three in order.

Still moderately interesting guns, but not outstanding, and if prices were to rise to three or four hundred dollars I would not buy one at those levels. At $100, yeah; much higher, nope.
Denis

 

[ShooterGuy]

Is a mosin up to major comparison on par with modern alternatives? Probably not. Is it generally a great choice considering its price, and for what it was made for. Absolutely. I once heard a guy complain he couldn't get a 1" group at 200 yds with irons outs of a Mosin.
My answer to talk like that......is it's a super mass produced hundred dollar'ish surplus rifle. Except that take a beating, and use a pretty good round (even if it is corrosive.)

I have 3 Mosin's all hand selected and well marked primarily for their history. However I've also shot all 3 and could never complain about their worth. The only time I had an issue was when first introduced to Mosin's I had a little trial and error on how to make sure your pin is exposed enough when you re-assemble the bolt. Found out real quick that if you don't you could have some reliability issues since it wont engage the primer on the bullet.

Anyhow, already typed out enough on a subject that's been argued a billion times before. Short answer....Mosin's are awesome for what they are, about sums it up...

 

[Ash]

Craig, you know enough not to want one. That is perfectly fine. I know enough about an AR to not want one - again. I've owned three, but the little voices on the internet say how great they are. I don't like AR's.

$100 commie junk? That is Archie Bunker ignorant drivel and you know it. Even the worst-finish machining of a 1943 Izhevsk is well-machined where it counts - but you wouldn't know that.

You don't have to like, want, or own one. You certainly can know enough not to want one. No biggie. But then your other blanket statements are the kind made by someone who actually has no idea what they are talking about.

Again, I don't intend to flame you. There is no hidden veil of insult here. Insult my evident deductive reasoning (care to read that whole Yugo line of stuff?), fine by me. But your arguments are childish.

Note the "commie junk."

 

[caribou]

I happen to preferr the SIG, the Sako, The Tikka, the Valmet parts, builds and upgrades that make Finn Mosin variations what they are, a Mosin done proper

Not that any other are any less, no matter who made them, but hey, these companys consitantly made the best parts and built the best variations seen inthe Moisn line up.

New England Westinghouse and Remington made some VERY nice Mosins as well.......

Still, a Mosin any flavor is a straight up Riflemans Rifle!!

 

[Roadking Rider]

I could care less what people think of the Mosin Nagant. If you don't like them then it's your right not to buy one. No big deal here. Personally I like the 1942 Izzy I bought last summer. No it's not as high quality as lets say an Enfield or Mauser but that does not have a thing to do with the enjoyment I get out of shooting it. It's obvious buy the way they fly out the doors of the local GS that many people feel the same way I do. The bottom line is there cheap (not Junk) to buy and feed. They're reliable for a rifle that is so old, and a hoot to take to the range and have a great time with. I fail to see the down side of owning and shooting a MN unless your some kind of snob.

 

[swag]

I've got a few what I think of as some very good looking guns, funny how the mosin is the one that most people want to have a look at first. People always point out how unwieldy they are, like if you tried to carry it through the bush you'd get hung up and stuck. I look at there dimensions almost like a modern Kentucky flintlock, all long barrel an short stock.

 

[Reloadron]

Roadking Rider:

The bottom line is there cheap (not Junk) to buy and feed.

The bottom line is they're inexpensive to buy and feed.

There I fixed it!

Rifle ownership is just a matter of one owning and shooting what one happens to enjoy owning and shooting. Certain military surplus rifles almost develop a cult like following and the Mosin-Nagant family is one such family of rifles. I just figure to each their own. The only matter of importance is if the individual shooter and owner is happy and enjoys shooting their choice. The only person who needs to be happy and content with ownership of a Mosin-Nagant is the person who owns it. If they are happy and enjoy their rifle then I am happy for them. Not complicated and really matters not what the rifle is.

Ron

 

[j1]

Ditto what Savage 99 said. They defeated the Nazis and saved the world. That alone is enough to me.

 

[CraigC]

But your arguments are childish.

Yes, I must've been eating shrooms and imagined the crudeness of the rifles I examined.

Your arguments are typical of those who can't see past their own choices.

I 'like' AR's but aren't in love with them and own only one. I can certainly handle an objective discussion on them. Hell, I can have an objective discussion about any of the 100 or so guns I've owned. I'm not so blinded by fanboyism that I cannot see their flaws. Which is more than I can say for some folks.

They defeated the Nazis and saved the world.

Men and women defeated the Nazi's. The Mosin was handed to tens of thousands of Russian civilians as they were forcibly marched to slaughter. A firearm is an inanimate object. We have this argument with anti-gunners all the time.

 

[Ash]

And you patently ignore any evidence beyond what you want to believe. We see that from anti-gunners all the time, too. There are examples on this very thread that refute what you have to say.

But, then, I wouldn't know. You know better. My ownership of an Erfurt GEW 98, Mauser K98k, Carl Gustav M96, Fazarkerly #4 Mk 1, Mk 2, and #5, BSA SMLE, Yugo M48, Polish, Hungarian, Romanian M44's, SIG, FN, Tikka, Valmet, and SAKO-barrelled or assembled Mosins, two Remington M91's and a Westinghouse M91, two CZ-made VZ54/91's, plus Tula, Izhevsk, and Sestrorysk m91's and Tula/Izhevsk 91/30's, two Terni Carcanos, a Winchester Garand and M14 made from Winchester parts, Quality Hardware M1 Carbine, Tula & Factory 26 SKS's, a Pedersen Custom 3500 in 30-06, Savage 720 shotuns, etc mean my knowledge of Mosins and other actions as well as their detail disassembly pales to your inspection of a few rifles. You certainly know better.

 

[CraigC]

I see a bunch of words on the screen but so far, no "evidence".

Tell me where these "good" hundred dollar Mosins are, with machining, fit & finish that rivals Mauser, because I've never seen one.

 

[Ash]

I'd say open your eyes. I have ownd $89 SAKO & VKT M39's that flat-out beat my two K98k's. I have a Tikka M91/30 that set me back $50, the same cost as my Westinghouse M91, both of which equal or surpass any German wartime Mauser.

But, then, how would I know? I only own them.

But you want to see? Here you go.

http://mosinnagant.net/

More to the point, in any case, I have yet to see your proof, Craig, that I am wrong.

 

[leadcounsel]

The Russians would not have fared well without a good rifle. Give them a bad rifle and they could not have turned them into good sniper rifles. Numbers alone were not the reason the Russians pushed back a well-equiped and experienced Nazi invasion.

And the ignorance to say the Mosin is not a good rifle is astounding.

Again, it's also unfair to compare it to modern rifles, metalurgy, and ammunition.

I have examples of most of the era rifles, and I prefer the K31, Mauser, and Garand yes. But to bag on the Mosin is just silly.

Just a couple years ago these were half the price they are now. I bought my first Mosins in 2007 for $50-60 each.

Now they are about $100-120. What else can you get for that price?

 

[MachIVshooter]

There are some really nice Mosins out there that rival or exceed other classic military rifles, such as the Finn M39. They're also more expensive.

The standard M91/30 rifle? It's appeal is cost. They are about the crudest rifles of the era (save perhaps late war "last-ditch" Arisakas). They are functional, though. They serve the purpose of launching .30 caliber bullets at the enemy with combat accuracy.

I have a lot of milsurp rifles, and the mosin is my least favorite. But it does have historical significance, and it is still and effective fighting implement, if not a refined one.

Bottom line, except for some really good scores people get now and then, you simply cannot beat the price of the Mosin. Yes, I managed a really clean type 99 Arisaka for $50 and a nice G98 for $100, but such deals are rare. Prices of mosins have increased recently, but not long ago, I could get them on my C&R for $79+shipping.

And the 7.62x54R cartridge? It is in the same leage as the other .30 caliber rounds of the period. The .30-06 and 8x57 were slightly more powerful than the rest, but the field effectiveness of those two, the 7.62x54R soviet, the 7.5x55 Swiss, the 7.7x58 Jap, the 7.5x54 French, 8x56 Hungarian, etc. were all on pretty equal footing.

 

[CraigC]

More to the point, in any case, I have yet to see your proof, Craig, that I am wrong.

And the ignorance to say the Mosin is not a good rifle is astounding.

Ok guys, I'll stop poking your bubble and let you argue with the other guys that don't like Mosins. In case you didn't notice, I'm not the only one.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I've generally noticed that those who don't like Mosin's either have never owned one or owned one in very, very bad shape (and with the numbers available, it's really your own fault if you get a crappy and didn't inspect it). Mosin-Nagant's are cheap but that doesn't mean they're crap. The wartime manufactured rifles can be a bit roughly made (ie machining marks visible) but that doesn't make them a bad rifle. I have many other surplus rifles and I wouldn't say the Mosin-Nagant is the nicest of the bunch but it's also no where near the worst. They are super reliable, hard hitting, accurate and I don't find them be uncomfortable to shoot (no worse than many of the older rifles...it's a battle rifle, it's not going to be as soft shooting as .223 out of an AR).

So is it the greatest rifle ever, no probably not. Is it a really nice rifle for a very low price? Absolutely. I think you easily get the biggest bang for your buck out of any rifle available from a Mosin. They're fun, can be plenty accurate, reliable and you can feed one without breaking the bank. What's not to like about that? It's a no frills gun that will certainly get the job done and I really like that. If I'm taking a long camping trip out in the back woods, you can bet that I'm taking my Mosin-Nagant with me.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

$100 buys you a really sweet piece of history, AND a funtioning gun. Another $100 buys 440 rounds, more than you'd likely shoot in several years. What's not to like?

I mean seriously....

This... ^^^^ is what separates a Mosin from everything else.

Maybe you don't like feel of anything other than Turkish walnut on your cheek and silk on your tush and have no use for one, but as tens of millions of persons, on both ends of a Mosin, can attest they get the job done.

 

[caribou]

Some folks here obviously misssed out onthe early 90's when Century sold M-24's, m-27's and M-28's in bundles of 5, listed with "cracked stocks and missing parts" that were often missing cracks and maybe a screw , band or cleaning rod, and the rust you thought would come with 'em. 5 for 100$

Good shape'd M91's, M-24's, M-27's, M-28's for 50-75$ each

Or M28/30's for 85$:banghead:

Or M-39's in the early 2000's that were 90$ each???

Or the M-44's , in paper wrap with strings and such fro 60$

Now 91/30's are past the 100$ mark, and ammo sources are gonna dry up, just like .303, .30-06, 8mm Mauser, ect, ect, ect....

get 'em while ya can!!!

 

[JR47]

The Mosin-Nagant can still be found in arsenal-rebuilt condition, for around $100.00. Try to find a Mauser K98, even the fatally flawed last ditch rifles for that. Or an Enfield.

The reason is because the Russians manufactured literally millions of them, and kept them after repair. THERE is your $100.00 rifle's pedigree.

Try shooting that $100.00 K98 with 1940's ammunition today, and let us all know how accurate it is.

Perhaps there are still some veterans from both sides of the Eastern Front around that one could talk to and compare how the two worked.

Nobody actually cares whether one likes the Mosin, or not. That's a choice that is to be made. However, if you've never owned, or shot, one, please don't wax eloquent on why they don't work as compared to anything else. In all too many cases, the fact is that the person hating them simply cannot shoot well enough to do them justice. Instead of improving their skills, they hide behind a diatribe, saying that "these rifles are junk".

Let's face it, the chances of even the haters actually shooting anything but paper run from slim to none. If the almighty paper is all that you consider, there are NO issue guns that will make remarkable groups today outside of sniper weapons.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

ow 91/30's are past the 100$ mark, and ammo sources are gonna dry up, just like .303, .30-06, 8mm Mauser, ect, ect, ect....

Except that 7.62x54r is still a military issue round in several countries. So unlike .30-06 and 8mm Mauser, there are still factories churning out 7.62x54r for military stockpiles. That said everything seems to be going up in price anyways, so I plan to stock up. 7.62x54r is going to stay cheaper than other full bore rounds for a lot longer.

 

[BuntlineSpecial]

I've owned a half-dozen or so Mosens, they are a dependable, cheap rifle with a hard-hitting, inexpensive ammo. To me the best feature of them, though is their simplcity. As I have told more than one person, there is not one part of this rifle you cannot disassemble and fix with nothing more than a swiss army knife and a little common sense.

 

[Swampman]

"there is not one part of this rifle you cannot disassemble and fix with nothing more than a swiss army knife and a little common sense."

Ahem...

+ a HAMMER...
(Usually no sickle required)

 

[Worm]

Um they suck and I think everyone should stop buying them, they are worthless....................



<hopes they buy that so I can buy more>