Discussion in 'Legal' started by NickBallard, Jun 23, 2006.
Just a suggestion
Put another way: Kim Jong Il is insane and is currently holding a gun to our head, and we don't know if it's loaded.
Put yet another way: due to the subject of the commotion, LA, Seattle, or Portland could cease to exist by the time you read this.
but just to help kick off what may (or may not) be a long train of responses,i'm thinkin' that the big difference between "them" and "us" is that we're pretty sure we ain't about to start lobbing nukes. we're not nearly so sure about kim.
Your whole post is reminiscent of the policy toward al-Quaida during President Clinton's term. Bin Laden and his gang were an annoyance at worse. They weren't really at war with us (despite their own words), they only killed our employees at embassies and our servicemen, not real people. Harsh words and a token lobbing of some missiles, mission accomplished.
Take Crazy Kim at his word, he wishes us no good. Stop him now before he acquires the means to accomplish his goals. Or you can wait for him harm us and/or arm our enemies.
How do you suggest we stop Crazy Kim?
Could Kim Jong Il be be just like us and think that he has no intentions of using nukes, but not being sure if we have the intentions? He's probably afraid of us. I mean honestly, if one was to attack the other's soil, would the U.S. or North Korea be more likely (looking at the past military behaviors)? Not that I think we should say, "Here are some of those weapons that can blow up the earth to go along with your own weapons, as a token of friendship", but is it really a big deal if another country wants to test a missile?
Some say that during World War II many said we should stay out and that was a mistake, but is North Korea in the middle of some world conquest? The Afghanistan Taliban and groups from Iraq were involved in terrorist activity, so I definitely supported Bush in those polls for invasion, but is North Korea?
it's pretty well established that kim is a full-blown nutjob. you seriously think he's all of a sudden wondering if WE have nuclear ambitions? come on, till recently most americans couldn't find north korea on a north korean map !!! this all started because this idiot started running his mouth.it's a classic shakedown.
We don't know what's in the payload bay.
We don't know where it's going until it's going there - which takes time to figure out, takes time to respond to if appropriate, and we'd only have 20 minutes from "go".
20 minutes to react to a possible threat isn't very long when the thing you're trying to stop is covering 7,000 miles in that time.
The "gee whiz maybe he's not doing anything harmful" doesn't fly when the difference between harmless and harmful is 20 minutes and 1,000,000 dead.
Kim Jong Il is certifiably nuts. He maintains power only by making his people think the world is out to get them; at some point this strategy will result in him actually threatening others to a degree that others cannot take lightly - and that point is right about now.
What part of "North Korea has nuclear weapons, ICBMs, and an active desire to vaporize Los Angeles" do you not get?
I may not have the answer to that question but this much I know. You don't discount, ignore or downplay the threats as we have done in the past. Just because a country or group doesn't obviously have the means to hurt us doesn't mean they can't, 9/11 case in point. If a nation or people want to set themselves up as an adversary of the US then they should be prepared to be treated as an enemy.
damn,dude.......that was good!
<<Your whole post is reminiscent of the policy toward al-Quaida during President Clinton's term. Bin Laden and his gang were an annoyance at worse. They weren't really at war with us (despite their own words), they only killed our employees at embassies and our servicemen, not real people. Harsh words and a token lobbing of some missiles, mission accomplished.>>
According to msn news, it appears that Clinton would have taken a different viewpoint than me. "William Perry, a Clinton administration defense secretary, advocated a strike on the missile on its launch pad." and "Vice President Dick Cheney said North Korea’s 'missile capabilities are fairly rudimentary' but developments were being closely monitored. In a CNN interview, Cheney rejected Perry’s suggestion of a pre-emptive strike, saying, 'The issue is being addressed appropriately.'" Clinton would have just hastely attacked.
The al-Quaida were already committing terrorist acts and were at war with America during Clinton's era. What about the Unabomber, etc? Kenya bombings? If North Korea was already attacking us, that would be different.
Many countries in the past said that the U.S. shouldn't form an SDI Defense system because they thought it would cause contention around the world, even though it was meant to be self-defense. Other countries said that the U.S. was using propaganda to make its citizens think that they were threatened from outside forces, just like our governement says that North Korea is using propaganda on their citizens, while their citizens don't want to be attacked and so many support.
Kim Jung Il would with regularity kidnap Japanese Nationals from Japan for Intel purposes. I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but only a small handfull have been rapatriated. Kidnaping Citizens of a foreign Nation for intel purposes is an act of war...unfortunately Japan is forbidden from declaring war on anybody do to their Constitutional constraints.
The real tragedy of the situation is how understrength we are now after the Soviet Union collapsed. Despite having the most highly motivated, best equiped Military in the world, we're understrength. 8 years of Clinton who hated the Military, and Rumsfeld's continued policies of troop strength reductions and base closures...we are not prepared for a conventional war with another Nation. Not without a draft...
I'll use the Marine Corps for illustrative purposes...in 1983 when I graduated from Highschool the USMC was 400,000 strong. Now it's one fourth of that...
That's why the Army has raised it's enlistment age to 42 years of age...if Bush is going to maintain his interventionist foreign policy at all, he needs an Army large enough to facilitate it. I'm not fully understanding why Bush has kept Rumsfeld around up to now...and let him run amok trying to close bases during a terrorist insurgency.
On the flip side to all of the above...we have the American broadcast media. Most people are not that bright or capable of independant thought and are easily swayed. There's your main audience of broadcast journalism... The news everynight, right about supper time will give you an update of KIA numbers, show clips of combat designed to make our Military to look like they're fighting a war of futility that they can't possibly win. Ever since the start of the Iraqi invasion, they've been broadcasting in the "Vietnam mode." They've even found the Iraqi version of "Maylai" with an updated version of "Philip Caputo." The media have been spectacularly successfull in sapping America's will to fight.
Are we ready to go "toe to toe" with Iran or North Korea?
Bush supporters flame me all you want...but you all cannot deny or despute what I've stated.
If the Democrats take the House in November, nothing will change...it will get worse. If they take the Excecutive, it's all over.
WE NEED TO STOP KIM HARD RIGHT NOW!
Hello I'm a New Member,
I think we need to send a message to both North Korea rogue President Kim and to China by doing what both former Secretaries of Defense Eagleberger and Asheley(George H.W. Bush & Billy Clinton's Administrations) recommended-BLOW THE DANG THING UP ON THE LAUNCH PAD BEFORE THEY GET THE CHANCE TO STRIKE US-PERIOD! When are we gonna stop screwing around and take a hardline stance for our Country's sake?:banghead:
Actions belie the words.
The Clinton Administration gave them technology for unkempt promises. There was no strong Clinton response to N Korea, he sent Madam Albright there and came away with nothing.
In defense of President Clinton, his attempts to appease the rogues of the world did us all a service.
If you didn't take the deal Clinton was willing to offer it was obvious you weren't really willing to deal. Made the job of this administration easier. They can with a clear conscience set our conditions for being considered friend or foe.
Those new here would be wise to spend some time observing the tone, protocol, topics and style of this board. Just kinda helps everything go more smoothly, friendly, and fun.
Let them launch it--OVER CHINA!
Do they have a right to defense? Yes.
Do they have a right to test-fire defensive systems? Yes.
Do they have the right to "aim a big gun at us"? No.
Do we have the right to preempt the missile potentially reaching the U.S.A.? Yes--if it launches in our direction.
Solution 1: Turn on the missile defense system (untested as it may be). Position our nuke subs as -close-as possible. Blow it out of the sky if it comes in our direction or over our alies. Declare war if it violates our airspace.
Solution 2: Let them launch their missile over China. Then, we know that there is nothing dangerous to us aboard. Seems a simple solution.
Closing thought: I am SO GLAD that I am not the one responsible for making the decisions in this case.
Whats the commotion?
You can learn a lot from reading history. Google the Korean War, for example.
The analogies to Pearl Harbor are invalid, of course.
What NK says is pretty much irrelevant, as there is a constant (and I do mean non-stop continuous) stream of threats, posturing, insults, accusations, etc. against the rest of the world. South Koreans, being at most risk, only roll their eyes and snort when Americans point out the horrible threats NK makes.
It's only when they start doing something potentially dangerous that anyone takes NK seriously. Having an ICBM fueled & on the launch pad is serious. Blowing it up there, however, would not go over well as doing so would give the snotty kid a reason to really let loose (and NK could destroy Seoul in about a half hour, right now).
Wow. Dude, I think your problem is right there in that sentence. Li'l Kim is not just like us. He is evil, we are not. He presides over a slave state, ours is at least nominally a Constitutional Republic. For better or worse, our people wallow in the fat of self-consumption. His people are starving to death.
I think that his ICBM would make a very good test target for our Anti-ICBM arms. Blow them out of the sky and then let them wonder what went wrong.
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