What's The Fuss About?.....

Status
Not open for further replies.
This makes me wonder why so many also attack the Mossberg 590 or the Benelli SuperNova, for instance; most of these complaints lacking any real substance/convincing basis (rather, only mere bias). Each to their own, I guess.
 
Out of apathy, I'll leave it to anyone else to prove that it isn't.
Click to expand...

Welp, for someone that can't back their argument, I think that would be wise for you to do.

Don't suppose you drive one of those "most common and popular cars on the market", do you?

r
 
Took about a thousand rounds but my buddies 870 magnum finally stopped jamming every 3'rd round. But dang if it didn't go bang every time. Not a single round of winchester ammo. Nearly all Federal cheap bulk and Kent.
My mossies all work flawlessly, but I always keep an eye out for a cheap 870 because as far as I can tell they are the same build quality with only some minor differences. But I also like Ford, Cheby, and Dodge AND Honda. Heck, I like them all, except Thunderbirds.

If you don't think Remington puts out some longstanding crap, you have not shot their 22 long rifle ammo.
 
Wish I could say the same for my 870 Express. Mine has had at least 10 failures to eject (brass lodged firmly in chamber) in about as many boxes of cheap ammo. But my brother's Mossy 500 built a decade before does the same on occasion. Just a function of cheap ammo being shot out of cheap guns. I can hit very well with the 870 though, points superbly.
 
I bought an 870 Express Super-Mag not too long after they were introduced. (late '97 or early '98) It started out life as a Black Synthetic model.

Five years ago I had it and my BPS 10 ga. camo-clad. They had spent a few days underwater when the Guadalupe river took my home in Oct.'98 and had the battle scars to prove it, though their finishes survived in much better condition than ALL of my more expensive guns.

It has been a poster child for "dependable" I can't remember it ever hiccupping on ANY ammo.

Aside from the barrel being heavier than the Wingmasters I've handled, it's every bit as smooth in the cycling department. If I had to reduce my stable of shotguns down to only one gun, It would be the one I'd keep.
 
owner of 2 express guns here. they are both solid performers, and one has taken the abuse that three rabbit hunting seasons has to offer (rain, dirt, mud, sweat, blood, and a good dunk in a creek). in addition to that, it doubles as a truck gun when i am out working on my familys place. getting hot, beaten around with whatever else is in the back seat of my truck. this gun is cleaned, and maintained to a reasonable level, but it is used hard and often.

it is an inexpensive gun that shoots and shucks when i want it to. and i don't cringe whenever we fall in the creek or briars run down the stock! are there better guns out there? maybe so, but mine work and i'll keep em.
 
i am equally happy with the performance and longevity of my winchester 1300. going strong for going on 16 years!

just had to throw that in there!
 
A couple things....
Rand, my figures were a little off.

About 2 million 12s,1 million 37s, 4 million 500s and the figures I've seen on the 1200/1300 do not jibe. Still there's more Expresses out there than any other pump.

As for MIM parts and stronger springs, when I wear out any 870, I'll consider upgrading.

FYI, the well used extractor on Frankenstein has oodles of use left on it, but that's an old WM bolt. As near as my eyes can tell, the near new (Maybe 1 K) one on the Express here has much less wear and more hook. Both run 100%.

The glitches people seem to have with the Expresses run in these categories.....

Failure to Extract. This oft follows Failure To Read The Manual and follow the cleaning and break in procedures. Or,use of ammo that's out of spec. Oft, some minor polishing of the chamber helps. A ten minute procedure at worst.

Rust. Again, following the manual and using a good protectant is an easy fix. Vaseline, paraffin, paste wax, etc all seem to handle the problem. Oil works also but needs frequent application.

Poor QC. Remington seems to have improved some, though probs may linger. It has been a while since I heard of bad choke tubes,so maybe that's history.

Rough cycling. Easy fix. Run a thousand rounds through it,repeat.

Did I miss any?
 
I do not have a dog in this fight, but I am an 870 fan. I have Wingmasters, trap letter guns, Special Purpose guns, and Police guns. Some comments:

I am not sure why someone would buy a new Express for hunting use when an older Wingmaster is available for the same or less money. On the value argument, where value is utility divided by cost, the used Wingmaster is a better buy. The only caveat to the above is those people who really need 3" or 3.5" shells. I do not, so I stick with the older guns. I also believe a used Express, where the price is even less than an used Wingmaster, can be a good or great deal.

For HD, I rather spend the extra $ on the 870P or an older Wingmaster. Yeah, the 870P is a lot more than the Express and the Wingmaster may be less, but the cost of shells spent in practice dwarfs the cost of any gun, be it Express, Wingmaster, or 870P, after a year or so. Guns are cheap; ammo, over the long haul, is expensive if one is a shooter. Avoiding the new Express also eliminates dealing with the magazine tube dimples, the question of the MIM extractor and its durability, and the funky magazine cap.

Any 870 in decent shape is a good shotgun. The rest is just picking nits.
 
Maybe that's why 870's will be the only pump guns I'll ever own..
Click to expand...

I guess Im a minority here then. Sure, there are some 870s out there I would not mind owning again. But, after handling my share of them, I find the likes of Mossberg and Benelli to be right up there, when considering value for dollar. I must add, however, that the Benelli SuperNova Tactical is the ONLY shotgun I have owned that has been flawless out of the box. I also must admit that I do consider Benelli to be the highest quality pump shotgun you can buy [new] these days for under $500 or so. The downside? They cost major $$$ for replacement parts, the aftermarket availability is slim and I cant for the life of me understand why their "tactical" shotguns have such an abysmal capacity. I will admit that, at least when it comes to parts availability, the 870 reigns supreme and probably always will. But, to me, this is about the only thing current 870s have going, in terms of setting them apart from the competition.

Now, I do not necessarily consider myself a Mossberg or Benelli fanboy. Rather, I simply like what I feel comfortable with and what I deem as reliable and feature rich (again, for the money). Unfortunately, the 870 Express has never met either of these expectations.

Keep in mind, Im not talking about the "classics" or the "collectibles" or used guns. For people to keep mentioning these is somewhat superfluous. My opinion is based on what is in current production and nothing more. Hence, within this particular arena, the 870 has indeed lost ground as far as I am concerned.

Of course, I come from the "tactical" and/or HD crowd (with my fair share of recreational shooting as well). Maybe the hunters out there know something I don't. Oh well...:)
 
Last edited:
Still there's more Expresses out there than any other pump.
Click to expand...

As I said, I'd still like to see your numbers. The second ones you quoted still don't quite jibe with others I've seen.

I got into this same discussion with a fellow who made the same claim about three years ago. Turns out, he was counting *all* the guns with the Express name, plus the total Wingmasters, Police Magnums etc made since 1992 while only counting the basic 500 model in the Mossberg column. You wouldn't be doing that, would you?

rich
 
Rough cycling. Easy fix. Run a thousand rounds through it,repeat.
Click to expand...

Not to nitpick, but this statement stood out to me. Run a thousand rounds through the gun to improve cycling? Yes, I realize the figure is probably inflated, but really! Should this not be addressed from the start? Besides, what shotgun would not improve after such a treatment? Frankly, I am more impressed with those shotguns which exhibit "smooth" action OTB vs. those which require a substantial "break-in" period to achieve the same results.

Regarding the current 870 Express, I think the term "Express" says it all. In essence, "express" refers to brevity; the quickest point from A to whatever. This, as of late, is being demonstrated by a gun that is quick to manufacture, lacking in refinement and possessing no real je ne sais quoi necessary to set it apart from the rest. Its run of the mill stuff. Why cant anybody own up to this and simply demand better?
 
Last edited:
The thing is, some people who post on here and other forums dont seem to fire thier guns much.

I have a 1970's Wingmaster, and it's pretty much perfection as far as pump guns go, in my opinion. But I fitted a brand new barrel to it, 26" multichoke for clay shooting, and I found I had a few occasions of sticky shells when ejecting. Aha! I hear the detractors cry, there you go, poor qc from Remington these days. But what I found was, I ignored the "problem" and carried on shooting, and a year and 5000-odd shells later this is an occurance from the very distant past.

I wonder whether people who question Express issues actually shoot thier guns very often?
 
Every company will have lemons. If you have a lemon how does the company treat you? After they told me I was SOL because their ammo blew up my non Remington rifle I will be hard pressed to purchase one. However, I won't discount their quality.

That is the reason I don't like Remington.
 
I have owned a Rem 870 express since my father found out we had a girl for our first child, this was 9 years ago.

The only failures I have ever had with it were the odd ammo failure or my own stupidity.

On my last trip stateside picked up a Benelli Supernova Tactical and absolutely love it.

Do I prefer one to the other, no. Do I want to hang all kinds of gizmos and can openers off of my hunting shot gun? no. That was the rational behind the purchase of the Benelli.

The Supernova tactical I bought is smooth as silk by the way. Same as my express. Maybe its in the maintenance performed on it after firing or the periodic checks through out the year. Now done annually when I make it back stateside. Use of proper oil or grease will prevent rusting quite well.

When I was in the Army I learned that preventative maintenance vs reactive maintenance is always preferred. Or maybe I'm just particular.

Now if I understand the nay sayers correctly, the 870 express produced since 2007 or so that have been causing these reported problems?

-Bill
 
Dookie-If you don't mind could you tell me what happened with your rifle. I have been running Remington core loct psp in my .30-06. You can PM me if you like. I don't really want to cause thread drift.
 
Sorry, I sold my Wingmaster years ago for my first Mossberg. :D No 870s to give you or I'd consider it. I didn't do it for function reasons, though, just being a lefty, I prefer the tang safety and I really like other ergo factors of the 500 over the 870 like the lack of a shell elevator in the way of reloading or the location of the slide release button. I never had a big gripe with the Wingmaster as far as it working or shooting. But, for a left handed duck hunter, the camo 500 I've been shooting for the last 20 years is hard to beat.

To each his own.
 
The numbers were from an old Philip Bourjaily article, R. I think it was in Sports Afield.

Throd, my guess is some do not shoot that much. 1K rounds may be a decade of hunting with a few casual clay games annually.

I do prefer old WMs myself,Scott. But there's a limited number of those sold every year and the Expresses are easily found. I bet more folks here own Expresses than old WMs.

MC, I liked Activs myself. With metals prices rising, maybe the concept will see a revival.
 
I'll always go with a used wingmaster over a new express. They both go bang, but the wingmaster looks a lot better doing it.
 
Throd, my guess is some do not shoot that much. 1K rounds may be a decade of hunting with a few casual clay games annually.
Click to expand...

Looks like you might be right mate. Me, I'm a rabid shooter come rain or shine, sometimes I think I live in the wrong country! :)
 
Besides, what shotgun would not improve after such a treatment?
Click to expand...

My Express.

It's probably around the 10,000 mark and it still isn't smooth. I'm not sure that "smooth" is the most important thing in a cheap pump gun, and I don't even like pump guns (10,000 rounds was probably enough for the rest of my life). But 1K won't make it feel like a Wingmaster, that's for sure, to say nothing of a really nice pump like Remington's own Model 31. People don't care to pay for a really nice pump, though. That's included me, thus far, so I'm not being a snob, just a realist about the non-niche pump gun market.

Maybe 1K cycles with the receiver full of carborundum mixed with some sort of goo would polish things up a bit.

Realistically, the Express is a shotgun that will do the job, reliably, for a long time, and costs a fraction of the price of a shotgun with better-quality parts, fit, finish, balance, etc. If you want more than the Express has to offer, then go spend a bit more, and get it. There's no reason to pretend the Express is something it's not. Its genuine merits are sufficient for its price.
 
Last edited:
Is it even legal to compare a WM to a Moss500.... I own two 500s and I dont think even I would try that comparison. I have owned many a WM and they were all finer then a 500... now the express to 500 is a more legit comparison. 870 design works for more people then not. The 500 just works for me, but I am a lefty and that is sometimes all i need to say on that matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Finally, An Express With Issues....
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
Capstick1
C
V
  • Locked
A few Rem 870 questions. Help deciding
Replies
13
Views
888
batex
B
T
  • Locked
Some questions about my 870 Express
Replies
6
Views
751
Sunray
S
B
  • Locked
oddity in remington manual
Replies
2
Views
517
dfariswheel
D
M
  • Locked
870 questions
Replies
4
Views
536
Dave McCracken
D
Back
Top