10-Ring
Member
I had an older series II that was okay but as I started down the road of making changes, I learned about proprietary parts. Big turn off for me so I sold it
What's up with Kimber??
- Thread starter S&WMP45
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Didn't a special unit of the LAPD (not SWAT) buy Kimber 1911 and returned them all to be worked over??
LAPD SWAT didn't seem to have problems with them, but they worked them over themselves anyway.
I don't remember the details it is a few years now since that happened.
LAPD SWAT didn't seem to have problems with them, but they worked them over themselves anyway.
I don't remember the details it is a few years now since that happened.
JohnBT
Member
What's up with Kimber? They'll probably sell another 60,000 or 70,000 pistols this year.
John
John
JohnBT
Member
"I don't remember the details it is a few years now since that happened."
Maybe, they've had problems with many brands.
"Nov 26, 2005 ... Los Angeles police officers have been ordered to stop using Glock 21 semiautomatic handguns in the field after recent reports that the ...
articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/26/local/me-guns26 - "
Maybe, they've had problems with many brands.
"Nov 26, 2005 ... Los Angeles police officers have been ordered to stop using Glock 21 semiautomatic handguns in the field after recent reports that the ...
articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/26/local/me-guns26 - "
At least the Glocks made into the field for quite some time.
The Kimber did not make it through the first inspection and did not even made it into one single officers hand!
Now I am not saying that Kimber are all bad.
What I say is that for the money you get more form other manufacturer.
Do you have a secure source for these numbers??
mljdeckard
Member
BATFE reports the numbers from every manufacturer. It's not classified. Do you have a different number?
I just tried to find this on the AFT site, but did not find it.
I never looked at guns form this protective and I would be surprised if this number is accurate.
Beside if you go by plain numbers; a Chinese or Russian Makarov must be the best gun in the world!
I never looked at guns form this protective and I would be surprised if this number is accurate.
Beside if you go by plain numbers; a Chinese or Russian Makarov must be the best gun in the world!
BigGuy52
Member
I have a Kimber Grand Raptor, and I love this gun. I've had 1900 or so rounds through it. The only feed problems I ever had was using Wolf ammo. So, I no longer use the Russian stuff, now it eats only Winchester, which function perfectly.
And like was said before, my Kimber is more accurate than me.
And like was said before, my Kimber is more accurate than me.
JohnBT
Member
"Do you have a secure source for these numbers??"
Yes.
Yes.
Found it after all: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2007.pdf
The latest number are from 2007.
Kimber 55.277
Sig Sauer 111.653
Ed Brown 1.065
S&W 256.988
Glock 61.703
Taurus 9.850
Kel Tec 103.893
Ruger 140.263
Nighthawk 1.201
Wilson 2.339
The latest number are from 2007.
Kimber 55.277
Sig Sauer 111.653
Ed Brown 1.065
S&W 256.988
Glock 61.703
Taurus 9.850
Kel Tec 103.893
Ruger 140.263
Nighthawk 1.201
Wilson 2.339
JohnBT
Member
I can't find the latest numbers. Oh well, here's 2005.
www.shootingindustry.com/Pages/07FAReport.pdf
Page 4
2005 numbers listed under Top 25 Manufacturers.
Kimber Mfg. - handguns = 47,820 rifles = 10,431 total = 58,251
________
Kel-Tec with 60,000 almost topped Beretta's 62,000.
www.shootingindustry.com/Pages/07FAReport.pdf
Page 4
2005 numbers listed under Top 25 Manufacturers.
Kimber Mfg. - handguns = 47,820 rifles = 10,431 total = 58,251
________
Kel-Tec with 60,000 almost topped Beretta's 62,000.
weisse52
Member
Chuck gets a major vote on this one.
Backed up by looking at some of the smith's websites
I really dislike the FPS that Kimber has chosen to use, I really dislike the billboard they stick on the side of the slide.
If you like Kimbers then great! I do not think they are bad pistols, just not what I like. I have not seen a failure with one, but then no one I know owns one. Just what I have seen at the range.
I understand the concept that if you produce a large number of anything that you could turn out more "lemons". But I also see lots of industries that produce far more pieces than Kimber and have not had an increase in quality issues. If we use that logic then Glock, Sig, and XD buyers would have far greater problems than we currently see.
I still cannot get behind the idea that you have a 500 round break-in standard. I did not have to do that with my Colts, or Springfields.
Hey, if you like the pistol then no one here is really going to change your mind. Enjoy your 1911...
So even if you are 5-15k guns short, that is quite a large number since these are all 1911 and not different models as with the other manufacturers.
To set this now into prospective, we would need to know how many people are in production with each manufacturer.
Anyway, this number shows me only one thing: Kimber is a mass produced 1911 and not something built with the care other manufactures give their product.
That explains the differences of quality.
To set this now into prospective, we would need to know how many people are in production with each manufacturer.
Anyway, this number shows me only one thing: Kimber is a mass produced 1911 and not something built with the care other manufactures give their product.
That explains the differences of quality.
mljdeckard
Member
Glocks, Sigs, and XDs use entirely different manufacturing process than 1911s.
My Kimber didn't have any noticeable difference from the first 500 rounds to the present.
MDW, remember, of those manufacturers, you can look and see by caliber how those numbers break down. Kimber is BY FAR the highest volume manufacturer for 1911s. Higher number of units made and sold may mean higher number of problems, but NOT a higher RATE.
My Kimber didn't have any noticeable difference from the first 500 rounds to the present.
MDW, remember, of those manufacturers, you can look and see by caliber how those numbers break down. Kimber is BY FAR the highest volume manufacturer for 1911s. Higher number of units made and sold may mean higher number of problems, but NOT a higher RATE.
TimboKhan
Member
Interesting about the sales thing. I don't have any interest in a Kimber one way or the other, really, but I never would have guessed that they are as much of a powerhouse as they apparently are.
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
Who knows why the "HURR DURR, ONLY BUY USGI NINTEEN ELEVANS AND ONLY BUY S&W" crowds at gunshops decide to trash certain brands.
I own a newer Custom II, and it runs like a clock on any ammo I throw at it.
It, unlike many 1911s, also runs with almost any magazine I've used (except ACT mags, lol.)
I own a newer Custom II, and it runs like a clock on any ammo I throw at it.
It, unlike many 1911s, also runs with almost any magazine I've used (except ACT mags, lol.)
kimber does seem to be a top seller-for that reason i would assume that certain gun shops stop selling them for the reasons they state-that too many have to be sent back to kimber to be worked on.
why else would they not want to make a profit from selling them?
why else would they not want to make a profit from selling them?
JohnBT
Member
"I still cannot get behind the idea that you have a 500 round break-in standard."
What's that, two or three trips to the range? I buy guns to shoot them.
Did anyone catch the Colt number from 2005? Kimber made 3x as many autoloaders as Colt. Pistol autoloaders, not rifle autoloaders, just in case somebody is nitpicking today.
John
What's that, two or three trips to the range? I buy guns to shoot them.
Did anyone catch the Colt number from 2005? Kimber made 3x as many autoloaders as Colt. Pistol autoloaders, not rifle autoloaders, just in case somebody is nitpicking today.
John
weisse52
Member
I will clarify.
Just because someone makes a larger quantity of anything does not mean that they will automatically be allowed a higher rate of quality problems.
No matter how something is made you can find a way to reduce the rate of errors if you want to.
If your error rate goes up and stays at the higher level then you have made a company decision to value profit over your customers.
And saying that the gun "requires" a 500 round breakin says you are moving the finishing process to the consumer. That is profit driven.
Just because someone makes a larger quantity of anything does not mean that they will automatically be allowed a higher rate of quality problems.
No matter how something is made you can find a way to reduce the rate of errors if you want to.
If your error rate goes up and stays at the higher level then you have made a company decision to value profit over your customers.
And saying that the gun "requires" a 500 round breakin says you are moving the finishing process to the consumer. That is profit driven.
mljdeckard
Member
Read what I said again. There IS NO indication of any kind that they have a higher failure rate than other manufacturers. There MAY BE a PERCEIVED higher rate because of the high volume. And again, mine didn't need any break-in at all.
S&W, did it ever occur to you that that isn't the only factor that drives whether or not a store will deal a particular brand? You are jumping to conclusions to support your idea. If they sell three times as many pistols, they make enough profit. It's more likely that they can't compete at a high enough volume for Kimber to carry them as a distributor.
S&W, did it ever occur to you that that isn't the only factor that drives whether or not a store will deal a particular brand? You are jumping to conclusions to support your idea. If they sell three times as many pistols, they make enough profit. It's more likely that they can't compete at a high enough volume for Kimber to carry them as a distributor.
i'm not "jumping" to conclusions. i just listen to people's opinions that i meet at the range and gunshop owners, they can't all be wrong when they recommend against kimber
all the other 1911 makers that are high volume don't have near the proportion of quality control issues that kimber does, relative to the amount produced.
sorry to burst your bubble, bro
all the other 1911 makers that are high volume don't have near the proportion of quality control issues that kimber does, relative to the amount produced.
sorry to burst your bubble, bro
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Really?
first post
S&W did you just get fired from Kimber or what? Why all the pent up hard feelings?
I own a reliable Kimber Royal II,(6 years) that has ran thru several serious courses of fire at schools and on my own. All the while functioning perfectly while other makes and models, 1911s and other pistols are choking and sputtering. I have had 1 ftf, with probably 2k thru it since last complete strip and clean. Stripped It down completly and gtg. 1911s require more cleaning than some other makes. Also with larger numbers of inexperienced people buying guns lately isn't it possible that they don't know how to clean, maintain, use these firearms?
Ford, Chevy, Dodge, blah, blah
to each their own
By the way whats up with those mp45s
first post
S&W did you just get fired from Kimber or what? Why all the pent up hard feelings?
I own a reliable Kimber Royal II,(6 years) that has ran thru several serious courses of fire at schools and on my own. All the while functioning perfectly while other makes and models, 1911s and other pistols are choking and sputtering. I have had 1 ftf, with probably 2k thru it since last complete strip and clean. Stripped It down completly and gtg. 1911s require more cleaning than some other makes. Also with larger numbers of inexperienced people buying guns lately isn't it possible that they don't know how to clean, maintain, use these firearms?
Ford, Chevy, Dodge, blah, blah
to each their own
By the way whats up with those mp45s
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